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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Ugolino said:
Because we know who she is and writing someone we know off leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Explicitly writing ANYONE off seems wrong.

From a cold, practical POV, she's more of a potential headache than the others given what we know and we found her first.
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Well Sabrina really doesn't know her. She knows of her and the things that other versions of her has done, but she really doesn't know her as a person, especially since she's only spent a few minutes pestering and harassing her.
 
landcollector said:
As would abandoning the other, frankly more important, people and tasks we've got on our plate at the moment. Face it, we're just one person and can't split our attention any further to babysit her.
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cost:
letting her be =She becomes a mind controlling hostile insane meguca, or she curses us.
Healing her = Months of daily sessions.
Avoiding a contract = 1 to 5 visits, each one lasting 30 min, postponing a few minutes an encounter with Kyouko
Killing her = San loss
 
Ugolino said:
I'm extremely reluctant to just straight to magic except as a last resort, and don't think we've reached the point where that's a net positive yet in terms of the Sasatactics. Not least because it means she may well do the dumb. It's trading her maybe being found by QB and being ignorant for her definitely knowing about magic and maybe knowing not to make wishes despite her many personality flaws that'd lead her to make a stupid wish.

Honestly, if we magicbomb her, I'd almost want to emphasize "screw everyone else- who cares about them and what they're like? You should think about yourself and what you CAN do rather than judging yourself by everyone else since at the end of the day if you're happy is what matters there".

Also, while we may need to figure out her family life...I suspect it may be a broken home or something where us sticking our nose in would be throwing fuel on the fire.

So yeah, I kindaa agree on some of that, I guess?
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If it is a broken home, isn't interfering with that the best possible thing we could do for her? I mean, maybe I'm just wrong. But it seems to me that ensuring Sasa has somebody taking care of her properly is the right thing to do. The, ah, Great Justice! thing to do. I dunno.

I don't know how to go about properly magicbombing Sasa. I think a good start would be to not be "Sabrina, the weird foreigner who came up to Sasa around lunch and pestered her repeatedly" when we do it -- whether that means a disguise or getting somebody else to do it.

I think if QB makes contact with her he could easily undo anything we achieve here, though. Except concrete things like the lichbomb. All he has to do is paint out actions in a light that pisses her off and tell her that we're a meguca and she'll decide we probably fed her a load of shit.

... Honestly, given that possibility, I wonder if the last two posts haven't essentially sunk our chances at this...

Redshirt Army said:
This, this is something I've been meaning to get off my chest for a while now, but Sabrina's bias towards "canon" characters is easily my least favorite aspect of her personality. There are two potentials in Oriko's school. Do we know their story? Of course we don't! Are we gonna follow them around and try to give them therapy? Almost certainly not!
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I'll counter that point. I think it makes Sabrina seem more realistic. I think that's only natural. We woke up with a bunch of memories in our head concerning these people. We know their stories, their woes, and we don't really know about much else in the world. If you swapped this set of characters out for another set, it would be the same way. And it's natural behavior, isn't it? To care more about the people you know than the people you don't?

We probably should contact those potentials, or at least check on them to see what's going on.

But it would be ridiculous if we didn't care more for the canon characters, and especially for the Primary Five. Utterly ridiculous, given that we are a person with feelings and not some alien with bunny ears.
 
I'd like to point out that the only reason we go first for the canon characters first is because we have some degree of knowledge about them. If we had to talk to other random girl, I bet some would rather default to science instead of going through the trail-and-error way of befriending them.
 
bird_poison said:
We can make a VERY educated guess on her future.
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Not really, no. Even information on her provided in the two spinoffs shows only one part of her due to her minor amount of screentime (pagetime?). If anything, we don't know anything about who's she like outside of a Puella Magi except for the fact that she's extremely envious of others and has a bit of an inferiority complex. That's all we know about her, which admittedly is not much at all.
bird_poison said:
letting her be =She becomes a mind controlling hostile insane meguca, or she curses us.
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Oh please. Her mind control is still shit tier at best.
 
Ugolino said:
Because we know who she is ...
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Do we? What's her school's name? What's her family situation? Does she have any pets? Hobbies or interests she's neglecting? Face it, we know all of jack and shit about her. That's why this whole discussion has been such a mess - SV has no clue how to talk to somebody without a cheat sheet conveniently listing all of their levers and switches.

Explicitly writing ANYONE off seems wrong.
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How much involvement does Sabrina need to have with someone before leaving them alone means "writing them off"? Or are you suggesting that we spend some of our incredibly valuable time on Sasa for the entire rest of the quest?

From a cold, practical POV, she's more of a potential headache than the others given what we know...
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And that's not a reason to invest more effort into her. If anything, it's a reason to invest less. If Sabrina spent her time on easier cases, then not only would the numerical value of lives she saves be higher, but the girls she saves would, by definition, be the more cooperative ones.

...and we found her first.
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The order we find people has absolutely no impact whatsoever on their importance - which is irrelevant anyway, because that's factually incorrect. We spotted the potentials at Oriko's school before we found Sasa.
 
Ugolino said:
Explicitly writing ANYONE off seems wrong.
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That's exactly what happened when you chose to attempt to befriend the crying potential instead of finding the girl who's already made a wish.

If she witches between now and when we do get around to finding her, it will be because you chose "we know who she is" over "we know she is in immediate danger".

We know maybe a dozen fewer facts about Kuroki than about Sasa if we count "facts" generously, and that was enough to make her not worth looking up in the phone book. If that's not a bias towards canon characters I don't know what is.
 
Kaizuki said:
If it is a broken home, isn't interfering with that the best possible thing we could do for her? I mean, maybe I'm just wrong. But it seems to me that ensuring Sasa has somebody taking care of her properly is the right thing to do. The, ah, Great Justice! thing to do. I dunno.

I don't know how to go about properly magicbombing Sasa. I think a good start would be to not be "Sabrina, the weird foreigner who came up to Sasa around lunch and pestered her repeatedly" when we do it -- whether that means a disguise or getting somebody else to do it.

I think if QB makes contact with her he could easily undo anything we achieve here, though. Except concrete things like the lichbomb. All he has to do is paint out actions in a light that pisses her off and tell her that we're a meguca and she'll decide we probably fed her a load of shit.

... Honestly, given that possibility, I wonder if the last two posts haven't essentially sunk our chances at this...



I'll counter that point. I think it makes Sabrina seem more realistic. I think that's only natural. We woke up with a bunch of memories in our head concerning these people. We know their stories, their woes, and we don't really know about much else in the world. If you swapped this set of characters out for another set, it would be the same way. And it's natural behavior, isn't it? To care more about the people you know than the people you don't?

We probably should contact those potentials, or at least check on them to see what's going on.

But it would be ridiculous if we didn't care more for the canon characters, and especially for the Primary Five. Utterly ridiculous, given that we are a person with feelings and not some alien with bunny ears.
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Oh, sure, I'm not saying we won't meddle.

I'm saying we should expect a bit of a mess there.

Eh, there is no good way to make first contact with SASA of all people. We got our foot in the door.

Redshirt Army said:
Do we? What's her school's name? What's her family situation? Does she have any pets? Hobbies or interests she's neglecting? Face it, we know all of jack and shit about her. That's why this whole discussion has been such a mess - SV has no clue how to talk to somebody without a cheat sheet conveniently listing all of their levers and switches.



How much involvement does Sabrina need to have with someone before leaving them alone means "writing them off"? Or are you suggesting that we spend some of our incredibly valuable time on Sasa for the entire rest of the quest?



And that's not a reason to invest more effort into her. If anything, it's a reason to invest less. If Sabrina spent her time on easier cases, then not only would the numerical value of lives she saves be higher, but the girls she saves would, by definition, be the more cooperative ones.



The order we find people has absolutely no impact whatsoever on their importance - which is irrelevant anyway, because that's factually incorrect. We spotted the potentials at Oriko's school before we found Sasa.
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We have her contract scene and mindset. That says VOLUMES about her.

Throwing someone away is wrong. There are countless quests with callous protagonists that don't give a shit about anyone else. PMAS hardly needs to be yet another one.

Torgamous said:
That's exactly what happened when you chose to attempt to befriend the crying potential instead of finding the girl who's already made a wish.

If she witches between now and when we do get around to finding her, it will be because you chose "we know who she is" over "we know she is in immediate danger".
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Wrong on all counts, again.
 
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Ugolino said:
Wrong on all counts, again.
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Oh, so we have saved Kuroki, then?

Or do you mean it won't be our fault if she witches after we could've stopped her from witching but decided not to? Because that's exactly what "writing her off" means.

You're seriously going to have to elaborate there, because there's a couple counts there that I just don't see possibly being wrong.
 
Ugolino said:
Throwing someone away is wrong. There are countless quests with callous protagonists that don't give a shit about anyone else. PMAS hardly needs to be yet another one.
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a). How much do we need to do before we aren't "throwing away" Sasa? At what point do we decide that she's capable of making her own decisions?

b). Are we or are we not, definitionally, "throwing away" every single magical girl and potential we could be helping while instead dealing with Sasa?

Dealing with Kyoko:
• Assists in Mami's long term stability.
• Assists in Sayaka's long term stability.
• Improves our chances against Walpurgisnacht.
• Helps Yuma.

By numerous ultiltarian and consequentalist outlooks, it may well be the more moral action.
 
Torgamous said:
Oh, so we have saved Kuroki, then?

Or do you mean it won't be our fault if she witches after we could've stopped her from witching but decided not to? Because that's exactly what "writing her off" means.

You're seriously going to have to elaborate there, because there's a couple counts there that I just don't see possibly being wrong.
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You're making a hilariously inaccurate what-if scenario with no basis whatsoever in the actual quest's events to date. Try again.

Redshirt Army said:
a). How much do we need to do before we aren't "throwing away" Sasa? At what point do we decide that she's capable of making her own decisions?

b). Are we or are we not, definitionally, "throwing away" every single magical girl and potential we could be helping while instead dealing with Sasa?

Dealing with Kyoko:
• Assists in Mami's long term stability.
• Assists in Sayaka's long term stability.
• Improves our chances against Walpurgisnacht.
• Helps Yuma.

By numerous ultiltarian and consequentalist outlooks, it may well be the more moral action.
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Yes, clearly not taking literal minutes to talk to Sasa will cause the end of the world and ruin everything.

I'll bet stabbing her in the back cures cancer too if you're going to keep making sweeping claims about a tiny amount of time. :V

Crasian01 said:
Wait hold on, what are you saying here? Maybe I just didn't read the thread carefully enough, but I'm suddenly confused. Can you explain?
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1. We had Sasa on hand. Not the others, no matter what Torg thinks he was reading, because we simply didn't know where they were.
2. We know Sasa routinely makes a mess by contracting when she feels isolated. The others don't have the same self-destructive, antagonistic track record that's confirmed beyond any doubt.
 
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bird_poison said:
letting her be =She becomes a mind controlling hostile insane meguca, or she curses us.
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Letting her be means, at worst, putting her in cold storage later. We're broken, and Homura is more broken than we are in "PvP" situations. Kirika was a threat to us because she directly disrupted Homura. Tokyo was a threat to us because Homura wasn't there. Between us and Homura, Sasa is... Sasa is only a threat if she uses her wish against somebody directly, really.

Redshirt Army said:
Do we? What's her school's name? What's her family situation? Does she have any pets? Hobbies or interests she's neglecting? Face it, we know all of jack and shit about her. That's why this whole discussion has been such a mess - SV has no clue how to talk to somebody without a cheat sheet conveniently listing all of their levers and switches.

How much involvement does Sabrina need to have with someone before leaving them alone means "writing them off"? Or are you suggesting that we spend some of our incredibly valuable time on Sasa for the entire rest of the quest?

And that's not a reason to invest more effort into her. If anything, it's a reason to invest less. If Sabrina spent her time on easier cases, then not only would the numerical value of lives she saves be higher, but the girls she saves would, by definition, be the more cooperative ones.

The order we find people has absolutely no impact whatsoever on their importance - which is irrelevant anyway, because that's factually incorrect. We spotted the potentials at Oriko's school before we found Sasa.
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Aye. We don't know enough about her, we don't really want to involve ourselves with her, and she's not special. If we want to save somebody today, we can go check the two other potentials. This is a large part of why I'm pushing the "enlist adults" angle. Delegate, delegate, delegate. Especially to the people whose job/s it is to deal with this, potentially.
 
Kaizuki said:
Letting her be means, at worst, putting her in cold storage later. We're broken, and Homura is more broken than we are in "PvP" situations. Kirika was a threat to us because she directly disrupted Homura. Tokyo was a threat to us because Homura wasn't there. Between us and Homura, Sasa is... Sasa is only a threat if she uses her wish against somebody directly, really.



Aye. We don't know enough about her, we don't really want to involve ourselves with her, and she's not special. If we want to save somebody today, we can go check the two other potentials. This is a large part of why I'm pushing the "enlist adults" angle. Delegate, delegate, delegate. Especially to the people whose job/s it is to deal with this, potentially.
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Delegate to the same people who've let her stew to the point where she becomes a headache in the first place?

Torgamous said:
So hilariously inaccurate that Homura specifically mentioned it as a possibility?
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Chalk another one up to "complete and willful misrepresentation of quest facts to claim that spending time on Sasa when we've already found hre is somehow killing someone we know literally nothing about except that she probably exists and dies in some timelines"

Or were you reading the wrong story-only thread? Because I can link you if you want to actually base your argument on stuff that's PMAS related.
 
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Ugolino said:
Delegate to the same people who've let her stew to the point where she becomes a headache in the first place?
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No, delegate to the people who didn't do that. If the parents are fucking up, we can either help them ("we don't know what our daughter is doing because we're too busy working 14 hours a day") or call CPS ("we have a drinking problem"). If CPS is fucking up, we can figure out why and who can change that. We're in a first-world country, Ugo, we can find somebody who wasn't fixing this problem because they weren't involved.

Also: chill. Your word choice is getting hot. Not the bit I quoted, the other bits.
 
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Ugolino said:
Yes, clearly not taking literal minutes to talk to Sasa will cause the end of the world and ruin everything.
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We already took literal minutes; we spent twenty literal minutes literally tracking her down, literally chasing her through a mall, and literally being told to leave her alone five times. Literally. At what point do we decide to actually do what she's begging us to do, leave her alone the way she wants, and spend our time doing something other than ramming our head against a brick wall? Where's Kuroki Matsuko, the girl who's scheduled to become a Witch any day now? What about Kyoko, who is asking for our help right now? Why is Sasa more important than those two?
 
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Firnagzen said:
Homura considers that for a moment. "Kuroki Matsuko," she says. "She is... typically a magical girl about now."

"Typically?" you ask.

"The Incubator tends to seek her out after Sayaka becomes a magical girl," Homura says. "She is... a strong, but emotionally fragile magical girl."

"Ah," you say. You can read between the lines there. She tends to Witch out rapidly, then. "Do you know where to find her?"
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Hmm.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Hmm.
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Still see absolutely nothing to justify hysterics over talking to Sasa for a few minutes. At all.

TheEyes said:
We already took literal minutes; we spent twenty literal minutes literally tracking her down, literally chasing her through a mall, and literally being told to leave her alone five times. Literally. At what point do we decide to actually do what she's begging us to do, and leave her alone the way she wants, and spend our time doing something other than ramming our head against a brick wall? Where's Kuroki Matsuko, the girl who's scheduled to become a Witch any day now? What about Kyoko, who is asking for our help right now? Why is Sasa more important than those two?
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Literally nobody is arguing that Kyoko hunting isn't on the schedule, or that we aren't tracking down other people.

I just think this opposition to doing the bare minimum with Sasa is basiclaly just a disingenuous excuse to write off a character some people dislike by pointing to other problems we're going to get to when none of them have a coherent plan to go help those people immediately anyway.
 
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