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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Plan magic!

[] Telepathy Kyouko that you'll be there soon.
[] Run after Sasa and apologize. Admit you lied, and that there is another reason why you approached her.
-[] Show her magic and explain she's got the potential to become a magical girl.
-[] What you really wanted, was to explain... because she might be approached by an alien being soon, who'll try to get her to basically sell her Soul for magic, and that being never explains what you'd want to know before you have to deal with the consequences of not knowing...
-[] Actually, one of the parts of being a Magical Girl is fighting monsters, and you were on your way to one. If she wants, we can bring her with us so she can watch.
-[] If she accepts, make a Grief carpet and fly to Kasamino with Sasa. Ask Kyouko for directions to the Witch as you go. Apologize for bringing a civillian once you get there.
 
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Onmur said:
and that being never explains what you'd want to know before you have to deal with the consequences of not knowing...
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Just like we were doing until just now. Might want to actually explain the consequences of not knowing, so as to differentiate ourself from the alien.

[X] Onmur
Ugolino said:
I disagree strongly with the idea that we can't at least get her into a better outcome than canon, ie: us running off again without even trying properly.
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Giving her our phone number is not "trying properly". Nothing will have changed for her and I'd give ten-to-one odds of her just deleting our number as soon as we leave.

You were really adamant before we got here that if we didn't talk to her immediately Kyuubey could pounce and take her soul, so I expected you'd at least want to turn her off of wishing in this first encounter. But apparently, for some inexplicable reason, it's more important that Sasa not know about magic than it is that she knows how to safely handle it, so that's not happening.

Please explain how running off after giving her our number is any less "throwing her under the bus" than not dropping out of timestop to talk to her was.
 
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Soooooo uh, I think we all need to step away for a second here. We're too set on the obvious fantasy setting. We're too certain that we're the ones to solve the problem/s we're seeing.

We have two responsibilities here:

We are responsible to her as a Meguca because she is a potential, and we're responsible to her as a Human because she's living in a first world country, she's a minor, and she's making really bad choices. The truth is, this

Ugolino said:
Thing is Sasa would make the WRONG choice most likely.
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can be pretty heavily generalized. She's skipping school. As a normal. She's actively pushing people away. Something is wrong, here, at least with her, and it could go deeper than that. And really, as long as Sasa continues to make poor life choices, we can't expect to prevent her from contracting. Eventually she's going to make a lot of wrong choices, and she's going to decide a wish is a convenient way out. (Hell, even if she still contracts, if we fix the other problems, she should end up as a proper meguca, not as some villain we're going to have to put down).

Sasa needs help. She needs more help than we can provide to her. We have other responsibilities -- responsibilities like killing WPN, keeping the peace between the meguca groups in Tokyo, making sure Mami Tomoe is healthy and hale because right at the moment we are Mami Tomoe's best friend, not Sasa Yuuki's. We aren't going to give up Mami for Sasa. We probably aren't going to give up Sayaka, Homura, Kyoko, Nagisa, etc. either.

But Sasa needs somebody who is going to be there 24/7. She needs more effective (more alive?) parents, or a best friend, or a social worker, etc. She needs somebody who is going to be willing to stick with her and help her become a functional part of society. She needs to be going to school. If we attempt to place the burden of helping her on only ourselves, we are doing her a disservice.

There are people who can help with that. If she has parents, they're either negligent or unaware of her behavior. If she doesn't, then the same is true of the government / whatever CPS looks like in Japan. This isn't Worm. The authorities can help. The adults can help.

Um. So, what I'm saying here, at extreme length, is that we should really look into Sasa's home situation and then consider calling in the government. Or, for that matter, we could call in the government to look into Sasa's home situation. If her home situation is good, we should get somebody to talk to her parents about Sasa's behavior -- maybe go speak with a teacher at her school (or email one, or call them, etc. etc., we don't have to be there) and see if they'll do it. There are adults in this picture who are capable of helping, and right now we're ignoring that fact. We're acting like it's okay that she's not in school for chrissake. Yes, it's to befriend her... but come on SV! It's wrong!



"This is still the real world. We can, in fact, help."

The counterargument is Kyoko, of course, who has no family, is a minor, and isn't going to school... shouldn't we be calling CPS on her? Well, in the interest of not getting her in legal trouble for theft (not to mention she'd just up and ditch the authorities as a Meguca), I think we can agree that calling CPS on Kyoko would be stupid. Anyway.
 
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landcollector said:
Things don't always go our way, Ugo. Pretty much every option except backing off here will just make things worse imo.
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I fail to see things going worse this last turn. In fact, my (surely broken) intuition says things went sigthtly better this time, and we know she clearly wants that ice-cream.

The true problem, of course, is that half the people here is not disposed to keep trying to help sasa when the chance of meeting kyouko early presented itself.
 
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Kaizuki said:
The counterargument is Kyoko, of course, who has no family, is a minor, and isn't going to school... shouldn't we be calling CPS on her? Well, in the interest of not getting her in legal trouble for theft (not to mention she'd just up and ditch the authorities as a Meguca), I think we can agree that calling CPS on Kyoko would be stupid. Anyway.
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Also, given that Kyoko is meguca, she can be more self-sufficient than Sasa.

I wouldn't object to turning her towards robbing Yakuza rather than apple stands. Or even taking actual labor jobs, though that might be a harder sell.
 
Jumping straight to telling her about magic is giving up- the Onmur vote also has too many problems at once to be an effective vote- and likely to horribly backfire given this is Sasa in her current state.
 
Torgamous said:
Also, given that Kyoko is meguca, she can be more self-sufficient than Sasa.

I wouldn't object to turning her towards robbing Yakuza rather than apple stands. Or even taking actual labor jobs, though that might be a harder sell.
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This was roughly half the point of founding the MSY. It provided a legal and stable source of income for Meguca in terms of both money and cleansing in exchange for the profitable usage of magic. Though, if we're stuck with the current Meguca setup (witches etc vs. demons and grief cubes) it may be a tad more difficult to minimize unemployment since there wouldn't be any demons to fight. A basic income might be desirable.
 
Ugolino said:
Jumping straight to telling her about magic is giving up-
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Leaving without telling her about magic is giving up on keeping her from wishing. If Kyuubey shows up before we get around to meeting back up with her, she wishes with nary a thought for that annoying foreigner.

Jumping straight to telling her about magic is giving up on not telling her about magic. I struggle to think of a less tautological thing that's being given up here.

You've made it clear which you'd rather give up on. I'd rather give up on the other thing.
Onmur said:
If you're voting for that, I'll add the 'X's, though I'm not sure yet.
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Nah, just think you're on the right track and I rarely have the energy to keep up with this past the first day.
Onmur said:
Starting with a nice witch fight?
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No, that makes us better than her. Starting with being subhuman.
 
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Torgamous said:
Leaving without telling her about magic is giving up on keeping her from wishing. If Kyuubey shows up before we get around to meeting back up with her, she wishes with nary a thought for that annoying foreigner.
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I do not see any good way to prevent Sasa from contracting in the short term besides lichbombing her. I don't see any good way to do that besides just up and fucking saying it. We're not going to befriend her in the short term, we're not going to etc. etc. etc.

Honestly support leaving, coming back, CAW CAW-ing her off to some alley in an obviously magical manner -- and with something to disguise our features, because why not -- and telling her that if she agrees to become a magical girl when the QB asks her to, then she's going to get her soul turned into a rock. Afterwards, leave. If we do it right -- "I just don't want anyone else to end up like me" -- she should buy it nicely, without any of this bitching. Cuts through all the BS-tape that Sasa is providing, gives short-term anti-contract protection. Then we figure out something long-term.
 
Can we like.

Literally beg her?

Literally like, head to the floor before her, please please please?

Completely destroying our sense of pride and reputation in Yuuki's eyes is probably appropriate.
 
Guys, seriously:
Firnagzen said:
"Then go back to your own country and stop bothering me," she hisses, eyes narrowed and furious.
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Firnagzen said:
"I don't need your pity," she hisses, sullen, vicious fury flashing across her face. "I don't need a sanctimonious, meddling foreigner to be all concerned for me."
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Firnagzen said:
Sasa - actually, come to think of it, Sasa's her surname. Yuuki glares at you. "Then stop bothering me."
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Firnagzen said:
"Good for you," Yuuki snaps, still scowling. "You can go and hang out with someone other than me."
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Firnagzen said:
"No," she snaps, turning and stalking out of the shopping centre and into the midday sun. "I don't want anything to do with you. Go away, go back to your 'complicated' life that has nothing to do with mine."

You stare after her as she practically stomps away, brown hair bobbing with every disgruntled step.
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That's five times she's told us to go away. We've basically just chased her the length of a mall over the past ten minutes, harassing her the whole way. Frankly we've left creeper territory five minutes ago and are quickly working our way towards committing assault.

Sasa plainly doesn't want to talk to us, and we lack many tools to induce her to listen. And no, ice cream doesn't count, because we've offered twice now and she's said no, despite the fact that she's hungry, meaning that her antipathy towards talking to another person is so great that she's turning down free ice cream. It's pretty clear that normal cold tactics simply aren't going to work here.

One arrow we do have in our quiver is an overt display of magic, which should at least intrigue her enough to stop and pay attention. From there we can explain magical girls and soul gems, how you're basically giving up your soul and accepting lifelong employment as a Grief sharecropper in service of alien lago-felines, but without the Witchbomb even that is unlikely to be effective. I'm really not seeing any other way to "win" this conversation.
 
Sabrina needs business cards

that's a thing in Japan right?

They say 'Sabrina' on one side... and her cell number on the other

unless they detect magic or Grief

where is then says 'Call for Help - Anytime. Catering, Witch Removal and Grief management'
 
TheEyes said:
Guys, seriously:

That's five times she's told us to go away. We've basically just chased her the length of a mall over the past ten minutes, harassing her the whole way. Frankly we've left creeper territory five minutes ago and are quickly working our way towards committing assault.

Sasa plainly doesn't want to talk to us, and we lack many tools to induce her to listen. And no, ice cream doesn't count, because we've offered twice now and she's said no, despite the fact that she's hungry, meaning that her antipathy towards talking to another person is so great that she's turning down free ice cream. It's pretty clear that normal cold tactics simply aren't going to work here.

One arrow we do have in our quiver is an overt display of magic, which should at least intrigue her enough to stop and pay attention. From there we can explain magical girls and soul gems, how you're basically giving up your soul and accepting lifelong employment as a Grief sharecropper in service of alien lago-felines, but without the Witchbomb even that is unlikely to be effective. I'm really not seeing any other way to "win" this conversation.
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honestly, yea, I'm about ready to be like "Oop it's a Grief Boop. Isn't that something?"

Maybe we can social-link her, explain things, and encourage her to make a good wish that helps her self-image and is genuinely helpful to others. Maybe we can get her into a frame of mind to wish to be the best possible version of herself or something, or "be the person she wants to be."
 
...oh hell. Is Sasa (without Wish) a classic tsundere?

...

...wait, does this mean I was a classic tsundere when I was a teenager?:o:oops:
 
Torgamous said:
Leaving without telling her about magic is giving up on keeping her from wishing. If Kyuubey shows up before we get around to meeting back up with her, she wishes with nary a thought for that annoying foreigner.

Jumping straight to telling her about magic is giving up on not telling her about magic. I struggle to think of a less tautological thing that's being given up here.

You've made it clear which you'd rather give up on. I'd rather give up on the other thing.

Nah, just think you're on the right track and I rarely have the energy to keep up with this past the first day.

No, that makes us better than her. Starting with being subhuman.
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Jumping straight to telling her about magic is giving up on defusing her. If QB shows up after we FAILED to change her mindset because we never tried.
 
Ugolino said:
Jumping straight to telling her about magic is giving up on defusing her. If QB shows up after we FAILED to change her mindset because we never tried.
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Um, how long are you planning on spending on this "defusing Sasa without letting her in on magic" project? Because this girl plainly needs months, if not years, of therapy before her self-destructiveness eases to the point where she'll refuse an offer from the Devil Incubators. She is, after all, slated to Contract sometime in the next couple of weeks or so, and is actively refusing help from us; that's not a very promising start point..

Are you prepared to abandon literally every other responsibility, including but not limited to all our pre-commitments for the weekend and beyond, that Sabrina has taken on for herself in order to shadow this one girl 24/7 and prevent her from coming into contact with the Incubators long enough to fix her issues? How many lives is Sasa Yuuki worth?
 
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TheEyes said:
Um, how long are you planning on spending on this "defusing Sasa without letting her in on magic" project? Because this girl plainly needs months, if not years, of therapy before her self-destructiveness eases to the point where she'll refuse an offer from the Devil Incubators. She is, after all, slated to Contract sometime in the next couple of weeks or so, and is actively refusing help from us; that's not a very promising start point..

Are you prepared to abandon literally every other responsibility, including but not limited to all our pre-commitments for the weekend and beyond, that Sabrina has taken on for herself in order to shadow this one girl 24/7 and prevent her from coming into contact with the Incubators long enough to fix her issues? How many lives is Sasa Yuuki worth?
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Framing it as "worth" is inaccurate. I'm saying that every step helps and that it isn't pragmatic or right to just wash our hands of her because we don't like her face.

I would rather take steps that maybe wind up not being enough that are fairly non-time consuming rather than shrugging and letting her self-destruct when we know we might be able to stop it.
 
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