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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Onmur said:
She'll probably regret not accepting our offer later.
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My fear is, she will hate herself for it. Then she will hate us for it.

Is better to be "the anoying one" that to be hated. But I think I already spoke my mind.

Muramasa said:
If we keep pushing however...
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Hate does not come from anger, it comes from introversion, from inherently rejecting something. Pushing does not give her time to stew and hate, in fact, being nice and apologizing would be the worst thing we could do right now.
 
AuraTwilight said:
KB makes a lot of sense, it's just not explained very clearly in the text so a lot of people from different cultures form a lot of wrong ideas about it. Kyubey's ethics, from what I can gather, find that an illusion is equal in worth to a situation that truly resembles it. He won't outright lie, but he's fine with omitting information and leading people on, because that's just letting people lie to themselves by filling in the blanks with inference.

Similarly, while he is, by technicality, micromanaging and farming the human race, our illusion of independence and autonomy is valuable to him as a moral concern. He won't directly harm civilians or orchestrate that kind of antagonistic bullshit, but he's fine with familiar-farming, targeting emotionally unstable girls and saying the right/wrong thing to them, and so forth.

Basically, his ethics is set up in such a way that it mandates him to be steps removed from the outcome of his actions, so that he has no culpability and plausible deniability.

He is, figuratively and literally, a weasel.
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He brings to mind the idea of a failed attempt at AI actually...
Rules to restrict behaviour and a guiding principle of exceedingly long view utilitarianism.
 
Agent Whiskers said:
So basically harassing her into giving in? I don't think that's such a good idea.

Do we absolutely need to deal with Yuuki right now, guys? Kyoko's almost being conciliatory here. That's really not something we should just ignore.
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DB_Explorer said:
Perhaps we should just give an apology and a friendly goodbye and head for Kyoko?

Basically we take no for an answer now so next time we won't be so... suspicious.
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The relevant question here is whether she's actually fucking 100% asshole who don't want nothing to do with us, or if she's pulling a "I do want help/friends/etc but I'm too *insert problem here* to say so. Instead I'm going to say that I *unfriendliness* this person although I actually want her to be nice to me."

In past, I've had my share of times I've gotten really pissed at something a friend is doing, or really upset, and when they ask questions I end up responding with "Oh, I don't care, I don't care" even though I do care. I've moved past that behavior -- it's not rewarding, generally. The question is, is Sasa exhibiting similar behavior? Not a perfect metaphor, I'm aware, but this sort of thing I think is not completely uncommon, especially in cases where person/s feel disenfranchised, isolated, inferior, etc. but feel that they do not want help/friendship/enfranchisement from the people they perceive as having disenfranchised/isolated/"inferiorized" them.

People are arguing that Sasa may be an extreme case of this.

They're probably right, IMO. I don't think people usually adopt behavior where they push everyone else away because they LIKE adopting that behavior.

The potential problem, however, arises if Sasa decides Sabrina is an aggressor, which could happen on a hair trigger given her personality for any reason ranging from her being too pushy to not being pushy enough. There's likely a sweet spot in between. I don't think we have the social prowess to hit it.
 
Kaizuki said:
The relevant question here is whether she's actually fucking 100% asshole who don't want nothing to do with us, or if she's pulling a "I do want help/friends/etc but I'm too *insert problem here* to say so. Instead I'm going to say that I *unfriendliness* this person although I actually want her to be nice to me."

In past, I've had my share of times I've gotten really pissed at something a friend is doing, or really upset, and when they ask questions I end up responding with "Oh, I don't care, I don't care" even though I do care. I've moved past that behavior -- it's not rewarding, generally. The question is, is Sasa exhibiting similar behavior? Not a perfect metaphor, I'm aware, but this sort of thing I think is not completely uncommon, especially in cases where person/s feel disenfranchised, isolated, inferior, etc. but feel that they do not want help/friendship/enfranchisement from the people they perceive as having disenfranchised/isolated/"inferiorized" them.

People are arguing that Sasa may be an extreme case of this.

They're probably right, IMO. I don't think people usually adopt behavior where they push everyone else away because they LIKE adopting that behavior.

The potential problem, however, arises if Sasa decides Sabrina is an aggressor, which could happen on a hair trigger given her personality for any reason ranging from her being too pushy to not being pushy enough. There's likely a sweet spot in between. I don't think we have the social prowess to hit it.
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Hence why my idea for now is pull back politely as we can given the situation and head off to Kyoko.

Cause Kyoko is awesome.
 
Although i would advocated to just leave sasa i should have said it before we met her.
Only one thing to do here.

[:V]Push harder!
-[:V]Push sasa till she gives in!
 
Even ignoring that she's a horrible person in canon, look at it this way.

Some random person just walks up to you and is incredibly pushy trying to stay with you and take you for food, whatever, persisting through repeated "No" and "Leave me alone."

She'd be completely justified in getting the police to have this crazy girl I don't know leave me the fuck alone and continuing to cram ourselves into her business is not going to improve the situation, because this is straight up harrassment.
 
Honestly, if we want to make her listen, the killing her with kindness approach is just not going to work because her issues stem from that. It's like trying to put out a fire by spraying natural gas at it.
 
She was being haunted. Followed, pursued, tracked, trailed. Stalked. To anyone else it might appear innocuous. It had seemed that way to her too, at least at first. Starting weeks ago, It had first approached her and she had made the mistake of thinking it was human. Now she knew better. No human would could be this determined, this single-minded in their goals. It's disguise wasn't even that good. It was tall and lanky, like a spider, and it's hair was entirely the wrong color.

Since that first meeting, it hadn't left her alone. It hounded her constantly. When she tried to run, it caught her easily. When she hid, it found her. She had thought she would be safe at school but it had followed her, under the guise of being a new transfer student. She wasn't even safe in her own home. It had convinced her parents, fools that they were, that she was somehow friends with it! The most infuriating thing was that no one else seemed to realize what a monster it was. When they looked at her, all they saw was a polite and friendly young girl. Even worse, she feared she was falling under it's spell as well. Her dread at it's visits was becoming less and less. Sometimes, when she let her guard down, she even found herself enjoying it's presence.

Clearly, desperate measures were needed. So when a miracle was offered, she accepted, despite her misgivings. The creature before her seemed incredibly untrustworthy, especially in how hard it tried to appear the opposite. She didn't believe a word it said but she was desperate and had no choice.

So Sasa, what is the wish that will make your Soul Gem shine?

"I wish Sabrina would leave me alone!"
 
Thagguy I don't think roughing her up would work ether.
It would just draw unnecessary attention to us and her.
 
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thagguy said:
Honestly, if we want to make her listen, the killing her with kindness approach is just not going to work because her issues stem from that. It's like trying to put out a fire by spraying natural gas at it.
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Her issues are too big for us. My ideal solutions are, in order of preference.
1) she does not contract, seeks help
2) she does not contract, considers help
3) she understands all the risks, she contracts and don't cause troubles.
4) canon, we gem her
5) canon, we kill her
6) we kill her now
7) canon, she wins
 
We obviously need to reverse psychology this shit.

[Q] Cover the soles of your shoes with a layer of Grief.
-[Q] Blatantly and magically float in front of Sasa.
-[Q] Ask Sasa if she wants to be granted a Wish and to have magic powers.
 
Onmur said:
We obviously need to reverse psychology this shit.

[Q] Cover the soles of your shoes with a layer of Grief.
-[Q] Blatantly and magically float in front of Sasa.
-[Q] Ask Sasa if she wants to be granted a Wish and to have magic powers.
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You joke but this is the proposal I like the most thus far.
 
LostDeviljho said:
You joke but this is the proposal I like the most thus far.
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Then you'd love my idea to trap Sasa in our Barrier.

Oh, wait, we promised we wouldn't trap Sasas in Barriers make Barriers. Damn.

Well, since we're trying to make being a meguca a less bad thing, we could work with megucasasa. It would help us influence her into being a non-stupid Wish.
 
Okay. We messed up with "complicated". Badly.

And yeah, we're not ignoring the Kyoko offer.

[x]...Hey, um, sorry.
[x]Offer again. Don't push past that.
[x]Just, if you ever change your mind or you want someone to talk to or yell at or something, consider it a standing offer, okay? I'll stop bothering you now but please take my number?
[x]Talk to Kyoko when you're finished with Sasa, one way or another.
-[x]Let her know if by some miracle Sasa goes for it and you'd be delayed.
-[x]Um, yeah, sorry about that.
-[x]Be right there.
 
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