And I'm saying that this panic about OH NO LOGISTICS is utterly unwarranted. Can we make things better on a larger scale in the long term? Sure! Are we doing fine? Yes. Is there reason to go OH NO WE'RE BARELY KEEPING UP? None outside of sheer collective hysteria.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
How.
I'm sure half the playerbase aren't seeing it and hence why this is being brought up again. Or well, seeing the current solution of meeting them personally will eventually explode in our faces and collapse.
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FlatlineAskari
*feline scrutiny*
- Location
- Elsewhere
- Pronouns
- Any
We've seen a witch core. We've prised all the grief off it, both inside and outside a gem. There is no reason to believe that all the grief go away differently would have ill effects.
You claim this based on ... ?
It's completely, obviously relevant.
Your position is that it would be easy - not 'possible', not 'feasible', but no-thought-required handwaveable trivial - to
- Keep every meguca in the world cleansed,
- When they have no access to grief seeds,
- Ourselves.
This is, bluntly, dumb as hell. If we didn't have to show up in person, everywhere at once, constantly, and deal with grief - if, for instance, replicable artifacts t0 remove it in situ were a thing - the problem in question would be more tractable.
Half the playerbase is wrong, then.
No one is dead. No one is dying. Everyone we know except for Ono is doing absolutely great- and that's because Ono is actively trying to commit suicide by magic overuse and no amount of logistics can deal with that kind of stupid.
We gave Kyoko a seed. We're going to meet her again.
Sendai? Meeting them for cleansing soon, situation normal.
Ono gonna Ono, we can't cleanse stupid.
Holy Quartet (Homu, Mami, Sayaka, us?)? Just peachy.
What possible reason do we have at all to panic?
Turning the inside of a live soul gem into a clear seed isn't just risky, it's an actively bad idea because we have no idea what we're doing with that process. What might happen if a soul gem soul goes "dormant". It's reckless experimentation, and worse, unnecessary. Which means it'll probably get done until it blows up in our faces.
....Okay, you think timestop bracelets are possible? That's a yes or no question. (Spoilers: That's a no.)
My position is that it'd be possible and reasonably straightforward over time to arrange for a better system. With grief seeds as a transitional stage, since you were salty enough to dig that up again.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
My criteria for a 'Good End' (not a Golden End, mind you) are:
• No further contracts done by the Incubators on Earth.
• All existing magical girls on Earth to be able to cleanse their gems often enough to survive while passively existing without having to fight.
• The existing witch population on Earth to be in the process of being pacified, and for the existing supply of grief seeds to be in the process of being turned into soul gems.
Dewitching is an important component of one of my win conditions. But so is having a worldwide distribution network, the ability to remotely cleanse, and the ability to deal with Kyuubey one way or the other, and thus, progress needs to be made on all of those issues.
No, we don't need better logistics to deal with our current problems. But we don't need dewitching to deal with them either, because our current problems are tiny in the grand scale of things. I don't want a better logistics network to handle the few dozen girls we know, I want it to handle the thousands we don't.
• No further contracts done by the Incubators on Earth.
• All existing magical girls on Earth to be able to cleanse their gems often enough to survive while passively existing without having to fight.
• The existing witch population on Earth to be in the process of being pacified, and for the existing supply of grief seeds to be in the process of being turned into soul gems.
Dewitching is an important component of one of my win conditions. But so is having a worldwide distribution network, the ability to remotely cleanse, and the ability to deal with Kyuubey one way or the other, and thus, progress needs to be made on all of those issues.
No, we don't need better logistics to deal with our current problems. But we don't need dewitching to deal with them either, because our current problems are tiny in the grand scale of things. I don't want a better logistics network to handle the few dozen girls we know, I want it to handle the thousands we don't.
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EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
I'm disagreeing with this. If such concerns keeps showing up is because the current plan is starting to fall out of grace.
Do you know something they don't? If so, please. Share. They won't follow your lead blindly so don't insult their intelligence.
It's also expected that we *will* meet more meguca. We're compelled to. We want to break the system, and that means doing the same for every single one of the megucas we meet on the way.
I think I didn't make myself clear last time, so I ask you again with all due respect. Are you deliberately ignoring this little fact?
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FlatlineAskari
*feline scrutiny*
- Location
- Elsewhere
- Pronouns
- Any
... I'm not suggesting 'turning it into a clear seed'. I'm suggesting doing what we already do to soul gems, all the time, without ill effects - removing all the grief.
If Mami says magic is replicable with enchantment, I'm inclined to take her word over your making shit up because it suits your position. There may be fundamental problems with making timestop bracelets. If there are, you don't know what they are.
You have no idea what this 'better system' might be. You have no plans for it. You have no plans to make plans for it. 'Make it up as you go along, while removing the system currently preventing disasters' is not, in fact, a plan.
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I too would like to see "Ugolino's totally awesome plan for creating a better system, or at least breaking the current one".
In detail.
In detail.
Sigh.
1. The playerbase insisting something doesn't make it true. It means the playerbase is completely, loudly, repeatedly wrong. I won't adjust my opinions because some people don't like them if my opinions are right.
2. Yes, we're going to need developments on cleansing eventually. EVENTUALLY. Why else do you think "work on cleansing" is with "Dewitching" on my list of priorities?
3.That does NOT mean we have an urgent cleansing emergency. Frankly? We don't. That may change as we get more megucas but for now and the near future? Our current arrangement is fine and this shrill panic is entirely unwarranted.
tl;dr Us needing better cleansing at some nebulous point in the future and needing to work on that doesn't translate into OMG PANIC THE SKY IS FALLING EVERYONE'S GONNA DIE.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Well, yes, better cleansing isn't urgent, just like dewitching. Has anyone stated otherwise?
Also, a slight tangent: Why wouldn't timestop bracelets be possible? They might be difficult, but I could definitely see Homura making them given enough experience with enchanting.
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Muramasa
Best Girl
You seriously think issues aren't going to come up and keep coming up before, during and after sunday?
Weather the issues are of are own making or not is completely irrelevant. They aren't going away and more are coming.
The base arrangement isn't going to hold. To believe otherwise is foolish and delusional.
Sure thing. This may take a while.
(Mirrored at placeholder - Pastebin.com)
Ugolino's Totally Awesome Plan For Creating A Better System, Or At Least Breaking the Current One. (In detail)
(WIP)
Warning: tl;dr follows.
1. Recap of the current situation (may contain the blindingly obvious)
We're based in Mitakihara. News at 11.
a)Holy Quartet
We have a small but growing team of gucas we're close to and that will follow our plans, more or less. (Homura, Sayaka, Mami.) Trustworthy and with an obscene amount of firepower against anything less than Wally/Feathers. In the short term, only their various emotional issues and breaking points to worry about.
Problems:
- Homura: trauma, Oriko trust issues, fear for Madoka. Can't find out about the effects of her loops.
- Sayaka: Kyousuke's hand, inferiority complex, regretting her wish, feeling useless because of the awesomeness/hax of the rest of the team, finding out about Oriko's role in her house fire, Witchbomb. Feeling indebted, mostly to Hitomi. Being a noob.
Mami: loneliness/fear of Sabrina leaving her, uselessness, metabomb, Witchbomb. Needs more hugs.
b) Madoka
Hasn't contracted. Not happy. We need more information about her thoughts and emotional state, ASAP.
(Known) Problems:
-Her urge to be useful, knowing at least the lichbomb, worry for Sayaka, worry for everyone else in general, Kyubey pressuring her, her feeling excluded. Probably a lot more.
c) Oriko and Kirika.
For now, under house arrest but providing mission support via precog/even more firepower in a pinch. Recently found out about Oriko's imminent and painful death, which reduces the mission support aspect of support and kind of ruined the mood. Useful and (fairly) trustworthy. We need to fix the dying issue as a major priority.
Problems: Oriko's resignation to upcoming death, Kirika worrying over Oriko's resignation to upcoming death, said upcoming death which apparently has many different causes from angry meguca to straight up reality-warping-bullshit, and all of it somehow tied to Feathers. Oh, and Oriko might possibly have her own agenda but that's kinda up in the air at the moment. Also, we have it on very good authority (Oriko's) that we'd meet her again even if we killed her, somehow. Nothing we can do about that, though.
d) Ono.
A bitch. Currently can't trust her to do anything we say. She goes through lots of seeds, might give OUR used seeds or ones she farms to QB, and is generally deadweight that we need to take time out of our schedule to make sure doesn't go belly up. As of this post, we're trying to palm her off on Hiroko and Masami. If that works out, they can keep an eye on her some of the time. If not, she's still going to be a major problem and timesink for us unless something changes. Or she could die, which would be even worse.
Problems: Being a noob. Being a shit in general. Not trusting us or our suggestions. Doing her own thing which is usually stupid. Kyubey feeding her misinformation. Ono out Sayaka'ing Sayaka in terms of willfully not following good advice. Ono burning through her magic fast enough to witch out in a day. Ono having the survival ability of a lemming with a broken leg. Ono generally being a shit. Again.
e)Hiroko and Masami.
Locals, relatively stable and competent. Issues with Mami but fairly friendly with us. Low priority in terms of actual risk but we should stay in contact with them for social links and because being friends with more people especially locals is nice.
Problems: Masami seems slightly less thrilled about us than Hiroko. Don't really like our more aggressive actions. They don't know about the Witchbomb. Masami is bitter about Mami persuading her to contract and doesn't want to talk to her.
f) Kyouko and Yuma.
Everyone's favorite loudmouthed, trash talking meguca and her pint-sized sidekick. On decent terms with us- grudgingly friendly even if she's definitely warming up to us- and on good terms respectively. Currently knows Mami's kinda not doing well, still defensive about her territory. Definitely some good basis for building a better relationship here. We're doing pretty well so far.
Problems: Old wounds between her and Mami, Lichbomb, Witchbomb, Kyoko's Social Darwinist act, Kyokoplomacy. Distrust of Sabrina's idealism. Kyoko's family and associated trauma, aftereffects of YumaMom's abuse. Worry for the other. Issues with charity while struggling to stay alive.
g)Sendai.
The girls on the wrong side of our first major intervention outside Mitakihara. Rin's the most reasonable of the lot, the rest just kind of went along with things until we forcibly stopped them. Sakura doesn't really like us much, though it could be worse. Did some pretty scummy things but PROBABLY aren't going to pose a danger or need intervention in the near future. Akiko's in a coma for now but we can't rely on that lasting forever- nor should we. We still have no idea how this mess got started beyond the bare bones of Kato Setsuko's very dodgy disappearance and with a lot of "she said she said" in the mix. Something we should probably look into sometime. Purely from a survival basis...they're stable. Hopefully.
Problems: They did a lot of shady shit to people who might hold grudges, may only be playing along with us out of necessity, Kato Setsuko, Akiko's coma/her possibly waking up, Sakura disliking us. Akiko may, may be witchbombed (let's not try and find out) but the rest probably aren't.
h)Fukushima.
Three of them were called in during the Sendai fight via favors and bribes from Akiko. Caused a lot of the destruction during that fight- and their metalbender lost it and caused massive damage on a major highway including 3 civilian deaths. Didn't go for our cleansing offer.
Problems: Relative unknowns since we've just seen three of them. First contact was beating the three up and them causing mass destruction. Very mercenary except when other members of their group are concerned. Turned down our offer of cleansing at the time. Need more information about them and to maybe drop by, tactfully.
j)Ishinomaki and University
"The good guys" in the Sendai fiasco. Moderately competent and probably able to keep themselves alive when not under impossible taxes. Akiko accused Ishinomaki of killing her friend, and of course they denied it. Fairly positively inclined to Sabrina for obvious reasons, and apparently reasonably stable.
Problems: dealing with getting their old lives back, tension between them and Sendai. The elephant in the room of what happened to Kato Setsuko. Not witchbombed but are lichbombed.
k)Toyko
Mercs from out of town. Folded pretty fast and just wanted to get away from us ASAP once they got their seeds. Didn't seem to bear a grudge but were pretty unnerved after their job went badly wrong.
Problems: Might not have the most charitable approach to locals in Tokyo. First contact wasn't on the best note, and they didn't seem all that interested in our offer. Need to tactfully talk to them again sometime, or at least investigate while making it clear we don't plan to pull a Sendai again unless we absolutely have to.
l)Sasa (Speculative?)
Selfish two-dimensional little brat who was there to be a nice evil antagonist for a heroic Oriko and Kirika to fight in a spin-off manga. Has a kind of weaksauce mind control that's still alarming as a befriending field. Canonically interested in stealing territory, here she's a suspect for setting that witch on Sayaka. Might not even have contracted in which case we maybe just befriend or ignore her and move on.
Problems: Don't know if she's a threat/contractee or not. Don't know how much of canon applies. Canonically had MIND CONTROL which even in its weak form is kinda one of Sabrina's few hard counters. Has a MASSIVE inferiority complex about people "better than her" which Sabrina kind of is in every way so that'll be fun if we end up needing to social her. Fairly amoral. Kills herself when she finds out about the Witchbomb.
m)Souju twins
They're from Kazumi Magica. They're crazy gem collectors and kinda jerks. They're also passing through Mitakihara in under two weeks according to Oriko.
Problems: Gem collectors with no morals and fairly powerful elemental powers. Don't know about witchbomb, probably. Canon knowledge may not apply given that Kazumi canon was stupid.
n)Asunaro. (It's a magical place!)
WELCOME TOHELL ASUNARO. This is the lion's den, the epicenter of absolutely everything wrong with Kazumi Magica and why that set of stories was a blight on the setting. Be it act of god, witches, or just something in the water, this city produces crazy like most cities produce traffic jams. The home of the Pleiades Saints, PMMM's answer to Batman's rogue gallery in terms of sheer batshit crazy, poor fashion sense, and general brain damage and poor decision making.
Unfortunately, they were founded by one of Mami's early students. Who was kind of a bitch and then witched out. Which hasn't happened yet and won't for a while. Probably.
So yeah, that's gonna be awkward. If this follows that.
Problems: It's Asunaro. The local megucas may be about to turn into crazy mad scientists trying to resurrect one of Mami's former students. One of Mami's former students lives there and is kinda...not all there upstairs and/or dead. This place is Meguca Ravenholm and we should plan our visit there with EXTREME care and timing. Canon knowledge here is unreliable at best.
o)Witches and Familiars in General
Know them, love to hate them. Magical girls that've fallen to despair and are now eating people. Lots of them in Mitakihara. Most magical girls have problems killing them. Fortunately we can instantly oneshot them once we get in visual range.
Problems: Mami, Sayaka, and other idealistic magical girls feel they need to hunt them to do their duty as meguca- and would take news of preventable Witch deaths badly. We're trying to save everyone so that includes dealing with Witches. Need to figure out how to turn them back into megucas or otherwise release/mercy kill the soul inside. Clear seeds are a mystery to us right now. We haven't really hunted familiars at all, which isn't a very good thing.
p) Other Megucas.
NPCs in flashy attire whose names we don't know. Generally either a)new, b)dying from starvation, c)discarded a lot of their morality out of desperation and uncaring about people outside their in-group, if that, and/or overly keen on staking out their territory.
Fortunately, we have a power that in theory makes any conflict pointless and lets us help everyone without any more fighting or deaths.
Unfortunately, we need to convince them of that.
Problems: Convincing them of our good intentions, defusing any issues they have related to being meguca or that might generally lead to them witching out, keeping them from finding out the various revelations in a way that'd be bad for their sanity, arranging for them to get cleanses and help, them possibly dying to Witches or other megucas.
q)Walpurgisnacht
The big one. The circus. The showstopper, at least in canon. This is the nastiest Witch that can still be called a regular Witch. Even a successful team fight with it with what canon had resulting in mass property damage and/or death...and very often resulted in EVERYONE DIES and/or EVERYONE WITCHES.
...We know from Oriko that we can win against it, no problem.
Problems: Mass property damage. Destructive, so it MIGHT kill us or our friends before we can stop it. The other girls other than Mami and Homura have no idea it's coming. Excellent excuse for Madoka to contract. Might actually be us from an alternate/previous/wibbly wobbly timeline according to one theory.
r)Feathers
The REAL final boss. Probably. Oriko saw that it'd cause TPKs and that we couldn't deal with it alone- her actions were intended to build a team to take it on. Currently suspected of somehow making futures come into being that aren't good for us and give Oriko a killer headache. May be a reality warper. May be affected by us using Witchy-magic, and can affect things far away when we do so. Treat possible manifestation with EXTREME caution, because this is one threat where shadowruns are entirely justified.
Problems: Causes TPKs and bad ends in at least some futures. Might have caused Sayaka contract at the very least- and maybe Oriko's problems. Causes Oriko headaches. According to Oriko we can't fight it alone and win and we need a team. Possible reality warper that ignores causality. "You cannot comprehend the true form of Feather's attack" is an ACCURATE description of what seems to have happened. May in fact be Homulucifer which just raises further questions. Makes using Witch science or messing around too much with our powers risky. This is a serious threat, if not the greatest we're ever going to face in quest, and we need to act like it when it comes up.
s)Kyubey (aka: Bunnycat/Meguca Enemy No. 1)
A dick. Manipulative little bastard who wants us dead and Madoka to make a wish and then witch. Is far too interested in us and tends to ask probing questions. A representative of an alien hive mind with absurdly advanced science and far more intelligent than us- and is effectively untouchable without being a goddess and/or personification of an emotion piggybacking off making a wish related to said goddess.
Generally trusted by megucas that don't know better due to allegedly being truthful while constantly omitting important facts. Tends to arrange conflict and contract situations. Has absolutely no sense of morality that humans would recognize and his every word and action are calculated. Also has a better poker face than Sabrina, which is a rarity in and of itself.
Very dangerous.
Problems: Actively out to murder and/or witch us. Constantly playing the long game. Main long-term target is Madoka but also dangerously curious about us, grief science, and our motives. Learning a LOT about us and our motivations. Has an amazing poker face/ability to bluff. Eyes everywhere. Not above causing trouble by lying about us to other gucas- such as Ono. Might know what we're doing and why. Could BAD END us just by talking. Theoretically could kidnap us and stick us in a cage of imagination along with a few dozen of its friends with acid-trip science accessories for some SCIENCE of its own. Do not underestimate the bunnycat.
We're based in Mitakihara. News at 11.
a)Holy Quartet
We have a small but growing team of gucas we're close to and that will follow our plans, more or less. (Homura, Sayaka, Mami.) Trustworthy and with an obscene amount of firepower against anything less than Wally/Feathers. In the short term, only their various emotional issues and breaking points to worry about.
Problems:
- Homura: trauma, Oriko trust issues, fear for Madoka. Can't find out about the effects of her loops.
- Sayaka: Kyousuke's hand, inferiority complex, regretting her wish, feeling useless because of the awesomeness/hax of the rest of the team, finding out about Oriko's role in her house fire, Witchbomb. Feeling indebted, mostly to Hitomi. Being a noob.
Mami: loneliness/fear of Sabrina leaving her, uselessness, metabomb, Witchbomb. Needs more hugs.
b) Madoka
Hasn't contracted. Not happy. We need more information about her thoughts and emotional state, ASAP.
(Known) Problems:
-Her urge to be useful, knowing at least the lichbomb, worry for Sayaka, worry for everyone else in general, Kyubey pressuring her, her feeling excluded. Probably a lot more.
c) Oriko and Kirika.
For now, under house arrest but providing mission support via precog/even more firepower in a pinch. Recently found out about Oriko's imminent and painful death, which reduces the mission support aspect of support and kind of ruined the mood. Useful and (fairly) trustworthy. We need to fix the dying issue as a major priority.
Problems: Oriko's resignation to upcoming death, Kirika worrying over Oriko's resignation to upcoming death, said upcoming death which apparently has many different causes from angry meguca to straight up reality-warping-bullshit, and all of it somehow tied to Feathers. Oh, and Oriko might possibly have her own agenda but that's kinda up in the air at the moment. Also, we have it on very good authority (Oriko's) that we'd meet her again even if we killed her, somehow. Nothing we can do about that, though.
d) Ono.
A bitch. Currently can't trust her to do anything we say. She goes through lots of seeds, might give OUR used seeds or ones she farms to QB, and is generally deadweight that we need to take time out of our schedule to make sure doesn't go belly up. As of this post, we're trying to palm her off on Hiroko and Masami. If that works out, they can keep an eye on her some of the time. If not, she's still going to be a major problem and timesink for us unless something changes. Or she could die, which would be even worse.
Problems: Being a noob. Being a shit in general. Not trusting us or our suggestions. Doing her own thing which is usually stupid. Kyubey feeding her misinformation. Ono out Sayaka'ing Sayaka in terms of willfully not following good advice. Ono burning through her magic fast enough to witch out in a day. Ono having the survival ability of a lemming with a broken leg. Ono generally being a shit. Again.
e)Hiroko and Masami.
Locals, relatively stable and competent. Issues with Mami but fairly friendly with us. Low priority in terms of actual risk but we should stay in contact with them for social links and because being friends with more people especially locals is nice.
Problems: Masami seems slightly less thrilled about us than Hiroko. Don't really like our more aggressive actions. They don't know about the Witchbomb. Masami is bitter about Mami persuading her to contract and doesn't want to talk to her.
f) Kyouko and Yuma.
Everyone's favorite loudmouthed, trash talking meguca and her pint-sized sidekick. On decent terms with us- grudgingly friendly even if she's definitely warming up to us- and on good terms respectively. Currently knows Mami's kinda not doing well, still defensive about her territory. Definitely some good basis for building a better relationship here. We're doing pretty well so far.
Problems: Old wounds between her and Mami, Lichbomb, Witchbomb, Kyoko's Social Darwinist act, Kyokoplomacy. Distrust of Sabrina's idealism. Kyoko's family and associated trauma, aftereffects of YumaMom's abuse. Worry for the other. Issues with charity while struggling to stay alive.
g)Sendai.
The girls on the wrong side of our first major intervention outside Mitakihara. Rin's the most reasonable of the lot, the rest just kind of went along with things until we forcibly stopped them. Sakura doesn't really like us much, though it could be worse. Did some pretty scummy things but PROBABLY aren't going to pose a danger or need intervention in the near future. Akiko's in a coma for now but we can't rely on that lasting forever- nor should we. We still have no idea how this mess got started beyond the bare bones of Kato Setsuko's very dodgy disappearance and with a lot of "she said she said" in the mix. Something we should probably look into sometime. Purely from a survival basis...they're stable. Hopefully.
Problems: They did a lot of shady shit to people who might hold grudges, may only be playing along with us out of necessity, Kato Setsuko, Akiko's coma/her possibly waking up, Sakura disliking us. Akiko may, may be witchbombed (let's not try and find out) but the rest probably aren't.
h)Fukushima.
Three of them were called in during the Sendai fight via favors and bribes from Akiko. Caused a lot of the destruction during that fight- and their metalbender lost it and caused massive damage on a major highway including 3 civilian deaths. Didn't go for our cleansing offer.
Problems: Relative unknowns since we've just seen three of them. First contact was beating the three up and them causing mass destruction. Very mercenary except when other members of their group are concerned. Turned down our offer of cleansing at the time. Need more information about them and to maybe drop by, tactfully.
j)Ishinomaki and University
"The good guys" in the Sendai fiasco. Moderately competent and probably able to keep themselves alive when not under impossible taxes. Akiko accused Ishinomaki of killing her friend, and of course they denied it. Fairly positively inclined to Sabrina for obvious reasons, and apparently reasonably stable.
Problems: dealing with getting their old lives back, tension between them and Sendai. The elephant in the room of what happened to Kato Setsuko. Not witchbombed but are lichbombed.
k)Toyko
Mercs from out of town. Folded pretty fast and just wanted to get away from us ASAP once they got their seeds. Didn't seem to bear a grudge but were pretty unnerved after their job went badly wrong.
Problems: Might not have the most charitable approach to locals in Tokyo. First contact wasn't on the best note, and they didn't seem all that interested in our offer. Need to tactfully talk to them again sometime, or at least investigate while making it clear we don't plan to pull a Sendai again unless we absolutely have to.
l)Sasa (Speculative?)
Selfish two-dimensional little brat who was there to be a nice evil antagonist for a heroic Oriko and Kirika to fight in a spin-off manga. Has a kind of weaksauce mind control that's still alarming as a befriending field. Canonically interested in stealing territory, here she's a suspect for setting that witch on Sayaka. Might not even have contracted in which case we maybe just befriend or ignore her and move on.
Problems: Don't know if she's a threat/contractee or not. Don't know how much of canon applies. Canonically had MIND CONTROL which even in its weak form is kinda one of Sabrina's few hard counters. Has a MASSIVE inferiority complex about people "better than her" which Sabrina kind of is in every way so that'll be fun if we end up needing to social her. Fairly amoral. Kills herself when she finds out about the Witchbomb.
m)Souju twins
They're from Kazumi Magica. They're crazy gem collectors and kinda jerks. They're also passing through Mitakihara in under two weeks according to Oriko.
Problems: Gem collectors with no morals and fairly powerful elemental powers. Don't know about witchbomb, probably. Canon knowledge may not apply given that Kazumi canon was stupid.
n)Asunaro. (It's a magical place!)
WELCOME TO
Unfortunately, they were founded by one of Mami's early students. Who was kind of a bitch and then witched out. Which hasn't happened yet and won't for a while. Probably.
So yeah, that's gonna be awkward. If this follows that.
Problems: It's Asunaro. The local megucas may be about to turn into crazy mad scientists trying to resurrect one of Mami's former students. One of Mami's former students lives there and is kinda...not all there upstairs and/or dead. This place is Meguca Ravenholm and we should plan our visit there with EXTREME care and timing. Canon knowledge here is unreliable at best.
o)Witches and Familiars in General
Know them, love to hate them. Magical girls that've fallen to despair and are now eating people. Lots of them in Mitakihara. Most magical girls have problems killing them. Fortunately we can instantly oneshot them once we get in visual range.
Problems: Mami, Sayaka, and other idealistic magical girls feel they need to hunt them to do their duty as meguca- and would take news of preventable Witch deaths badly. We're trying to save everyone so that includes dealing with Witches. Need to figure out how to turn them back into megucas or otherwise release/mercy kill the soul inside. Clear seeds are a mystery to us right now. We haven't really hunted familiars at all, which isn't a very good thing.
p) Other Megucas.
NPCs in flashy attire whose names we don't know. Generally either a)new, b)dying from starvation, c)discarded a lot of their morality out of desperation and uncaring about people outside their in-group, if that, and/or overly keen on staking out their territory.
Fortunately, we have a power that in theory makes any conflict pointless and lets us help everyone without any more fighting or deaths.
Unfortunately, we need to convince them of that.
Problems: Convincing them of our good intentions, defusing any issues they have related to being meguca or that might generally lead to them witching out, keeping them from finding out the various revelations in a way that'd be bad for their sanity, arranging for them to get cleanses and help, them possibly dying to Witches or other megucas.
q)Walpurgisnacht
The big one. The circus. The showstopper, at least in canon. This is the nastiest Witch that can still be called a regular Witch. Even a successful team fight with it with what canon had resulting in mass property damage and/or death...and very often resulted in EVERYONE DIES and/or EVERYONE WITCHES.
...We know from Oriko that we can win against it, no problem.
Problems: Mass property damage. Destructive, so it MIGHT kill us or our friends before we can stop it. The other girls other than Mami and Homura have no idea it's coming. Excellent excuse for Madoka to contract. Might actually be us from an alternate/previous/wibbly wobbly timeline according to one theory.
r)Feathers
The REAL final boss. Probably. Oriko saw that it'd cause TPKs and that we couldn't deal with it alone- her actions were intended to build a team to take it on. Currently suspected of somehow making futures come into being that aren't good for us and give Oriko a killer headache. May be a reality warper. May be affected by us using Witchy-magic, and can affect things far away when we do so. Treat possible manifestation with EXTREME caution, because this is one threat where shadowruns are entirely justified.
Problems: Causes TPKs and bad ends in at least some futures. Might have caused Sayaka contract at the very least- and maybe Oriko's problems. Causes Oriko headaches. According to Oriko we can't fight it alone and win and we need a team. Possible reality warper that ignores causality. "You cannot comprehend the true form of Feather's attack" is an ACCURATE description of what seems to have happened. May in fact be Homulucifer which just raises further questions. Makes using Witch science or messing around too much with our powers risky. This is a serious threat, if not the greatest we're ever going to face in quest, and we need to act like it when it comes up.
s)Kyubey (aka: Bunnycat/Meguca Enemy No. 1)
A dick. Manipulative little bastard who wants us dead and Madoka to make a wish and then witch. Is far too interested in us and tends to ask probing questions. A representative of an alien hive mind with absurdly advanced science and far more intelligent than us- and is effectively untouchable without being a goddess and/or personification of an emotion piggybacking off making a wish related to said goddess.
Generally trusted by megucas that don't know better due to allegedly being truthful while constantly omitting important facts. Tends to arrange conflict and contract situations. Has absolutely no sense of morality that humans would recognize and his every word and action are calculated. Also has a better poker face than Sabrina, which is a rarity in and of itself.
Very dangerous.
Problems: Actively out to murder and/or witch us. Constantly playing the long game. Main long-term target is Madoka but also dangerously curious about us, grief science, and our motives. Learning a LOT about us and our motivations. Has an amazing poker face/ability to bluff. Eyes everywhere. Not above causing trouble by lying about us to other gucas- such as Ono. Might know what we're doing and why. Could BAD END us just by talking. Theoretically could kidnap us and stick us in a cage of imagination along with a few dozen of its friends with acid-trip science accessories for some SCIENCE of its own. Do not underestimate the bunnycat.
We have a lot on our plate.
Megucas are adorable bundles of trauma and issues, and we've surrounded ourselves with some of the worst basket-cases and are actively adopting more. The system is unfair, actively out to get you, and above all...largely self-sustaining and breaks anyone who learns too much about it. And it's HUGE. Like really, really big. And everything about it needs to be broken and reshaped into something we can accept. And then there's the more directly dangerous stuff that even we can't grief-rend away, not to mention conversational pitfalls...
A truly meaningful success in PMAS is caused by Social backed up by necessary SCIENCE while still not forgetting to do everything we can to deal with existential threats. Anything else is window dressing and shouldn't come ahead of those goals. This seems to be a somewhat controversial point whenever it comes up so I'll explain my reasoning further below.
Our problems fall under three main categories- social, SCIENCE, and existential threats. There's overlap between them, of course. (Spreading cleansing needs both social AND science, Feathers is all three...) But this'll be the shorthand I use in the rest of this overly long rant.
Social- What it says on the tin. Interactions with others, making friends, building trust and getting allies, smacking down people doing things we can't accept, helping others deal with their issues directly or indirectly. Befriending, BEFRIENDING and putting the metaphorical heads on metaphorical pikes (hopefully) all fall under this.
SCIENCE- Finding stuff out and blowing stuff up. Put on the goggles and lab coat. Dewitching, learning more about soul gems and different kinds of seeds, getting over our range limits, saving Oriko, wacky spur of the moment shenanigans with our powers that might blow up spectacularly in our faces...This is what it falls under.
Existential threats- stuff we CAN'T forget about, or it'll kill us. Not in the sense of a failure at our self-appointed role such as if we never spread de-witching or mass cleansing...but in the sense of BAD END. Madoka contracting and witching, Feathers, and pissing Homura off to the point where she wants us dead all qualify. Even Mami dying doesn't quite qualify even if it effectively ruins any victory and makes it bittersweet at best.
So. Post 1 by Firn. What does it tell us?
In other words, we can deduce that our getting a good ending of some kind is only tangentially related to our wish and powers in the first place. Science isn't NEEDED for us to do well.
But what about the rest? Why is metaknowledge and the quest inevitably being difficult important?
Because PMAS's true win (or at least not-lose) condition is based on Social. The cast, and their issues. At it's core? PMAS isn't about us, it's about them. Sabrina's character development is tangential to theirs, as much as she can be said to have character development. We could do all the SCIENCE in the world and it wouldn't make a difference if Mami died, Sayaka witched, Madoka wishes, and Homura loops. By this logic, arguably nothing outside of Mitakihara matters- but that's just a burden we've chosen to assume and add onto the truly minimal social for anything resembling a happy ending. Even so, the point stands- to win, we technically don't NEED Science.
But what about results, some people might ask. Let's look at results. By default, post-wish, we had griefhax and wings. Already cool. What did we get out of SCIENCE? Not just random power usage whenever we had an emergency- what did we get from dedicated research sessions. We found out we could TK grief, that we had a range limit in the first session. Grief music, grief armor, grief's effects on rebar, and grief dissipation in the second. Session 3- post Sendai- was examining soul gems, grief seeds, and clear seeds. Object and meguca weapon properties. "Session 4" was trying to steal a familiar followed by griefhax while hunting a Witch. That...went badly. Session 5 was grief barrier, aka: effectively duplicating what we were doing via timestop. Then we uprooted a rosebush for some reason. Session 6. Oh boy, session 6. Sonic showers and the infamous witch barriers. That one just got Kyubey's attention. The one we brought Mami for? Traumatized her, sent us catatonic briefly and may have caused Sayaka to get attacked by a Feathers-caused Witch and eventually contract because of it. Our latest science sessions gave us a censor bar for private communication, again just an improved grief bubble that was an improved timestop chat, and some failed enchantment shortcuts and stuff. Oh yeah there was a combat bracer too, that for a ranged oneshot caster meguca was a bit like putting lipstick on a pig.
Overall..looking at it pragmatically and just going by facts...dedicated SCIENCE sessions haven't been productive, and even less so when we do it without specific, quest-relevant goals in mind. Nothing we've done in them would be worth missing out on chances to do-good or fix things over. SCIENCE is nice, but the sessions? They haven't been vital, and they still aren't. Especially if we aren't going to focus on specific things to do for them.
This definitely isn't an argument against doing SCIENCE at all. For our (extra, but in-character) goals to come to fruition, we are going to need some SCIENCE- at the bare minimum to save Oriko, for dewitching, to spread reliable and regular cleansing worldwide and for other things that come up. However, it seems to be a fairly common trend in-thread to act as though SCIENCE plays a large role, even a central, role in doing well and winning the quest. I believe this to be a mistake. SCIENCE is a useful tool, but it's a supplement. Something we put aside some time for, but need to have very specific and vital goals for during that time.
Now that we've established SCIENCE is useful but not the core of the quest, what should we be primarily focusing on instead? Social and existential threats. Social is what will make or break us. We need to spread word of our abilities and willingness to use them, to make friends, to mend bridges and right wrongs such as groups bullying others, posing a threat to others (cough cough Sasa and the twins) and to save girls from themselves where we have to. (Damnit Ono.) Without social, all our SCIENCE skills don't do very much. Right now, with clear seeds and cleansing? We can support a fairly large network of girls. Larger than we have now. And going by what Oriko said, that's what we'll need for Walpurgisnacht and what comes after.
Closer to home, social is how we save Madoka, convince Homura to work with everyone else and trust this is the last loop, help Mami be stable and happy, get Kyoko to come back, make Sayaka a true Hero of Justice...Basically, it's how we win.
Megucas are adorable bundles of trauma and issues, and we've surrounded ourselves with some of the worst basket-cases and are actively adopting more. The system is unfair, actively out to get you, and above all...largely self-sustaining and breaks anyone who learns too much about it. And it's HUGE. Like really, really big. And everything about it needs to be broken and reshaped into something we can accept. And then there's the more directly dangerous stuff that even we can't grief-rend away, not to mention conversational pitfalls...
A truly meaningful success in PMAS is caused by Social backed up by necessary SCIENCE while still not forgetting to do everything we can to deal with existential threats. Anything else is window dressing and shouldn't come ahead of those goals. This seems to be a somewhat controversial point whenever it comes up so I'll explain my reasoning further below.
Our problems fall under three main categories- social, SCIENCE, and existential threats. There's overlap between them, of course. (Spreading cleansing needs both social AND science, Feathers is all three...) But this'll be the shorthand I use in the rest of this overly long rant.
Social- What it says on the tin. Interactions with others, making friends, building trust and getting allies, smacking down people doing things we can't accept, helping others deal with their issues directly or indirectly. Befriending, BEFRIENDING and putting the metaphorical heads on metaphorical pikes (hopefully) all fall under this.
SCIENCE- Finding stuff out and blowing stuff up. Put on the goggles and lab coat. Dewitching, learning more about soul gems and different kinds of seeds, getting over our range limits, saving Oriko, wacky spur of the moment shenanigans with our powers that might blow up spectacularly in our faces...This is what it falls under.
Existential threats- stuff we CAN'T forget about, or it'll kill us. Not in the sense of a failure at our self-appointed role such as if we never spread de-witching or mass cleansing...but in the sense of BAD END. Madoka contracting and witching, Feathers, and pissing Homura off to the point where she wants us dead all qualify. Even Mami dying doesn't quite qualify even if it effectively ruins any victory and makes it bittersweet at best.
So. Post 1 by Firn. What does it tell us?
Not to mention....
Firn's declared that a)metaknowledge is fair game, b)that no matter what, we're going to have difficulty, c)ANY wish that allows for a story is fair game, implying that it wouldn't have made a significant difference to the general course of events if we'd wished for strawberry ice cream or grief cleansing.
In other words, we can deduce that our getting a good ending of some kind is only tangentially related to our wish and powers in the first place. Science isn't NEEDED for us to do well.
But what about the rest? Why is metaknowledge and the quest inevitably being difficult important?
Because PMAS's true win (or at least not-lose) condition is based on Social. The cast, and their issues. At it's core? PMAS isn't about us, it's about them. Sabrina's character development is tangential to theirs, as much as she can be said to have character development. We could do all the SCIENCE in the world and it wouldn't make a difference if Mami died, Sayaka witched, Madoka wishes, and Homura loops. By this logic, arguably nothing outside of Mitakihara matters- but that's just a burden we've chosen to assume and add onto the truly minimal social for anything resembling a happy ending. Even so, the point stands- to win, we technically don't NEED Science.
But what about results, some people might ask. Let's look at results. By default, post-wish, we had griefhax and wings. Already cool. What did we get out of SCIENCE? Not just random power usage whenever we had an emergency- what did we get from dedicated research sessions. We found out we could TK grief, that we had a range limit in the first session. Grief music, grief armor, grief's effects on rebar, and grief dissipation in the second. Session 3- post Sendai- was examining soul gems, grief seeds, and clear seeds. Object and meguca weapon properties. "Session 4" was trying to steal a familiar followed by griefhax while hunting a Witch. That...went badly. Session 5 was grief barrier, aka: effectively duplicating what we were doing via timestop. Then we uprooted a rosebush for some reason. Session 6. Oh boy, session 6. Sonic showers and the infamous witch barriers. That one just got Kyubey's attention. The one we brought Mami for? Traumatized her, sent us catatonic briefly and may have caused Sayaka to get attacked by a Feathers-caused Witch and eventually contract because of it. Our latest science sessions gave us a censor bar for private communication, again just an improved grief bubble that was an improved timestop chat, and some failed enchantment shortcuts and stuff. Oh yeah there was a combat bracer too, that for a ranged oneshot caster meguca was a bit like putting lipstick on a pig.
Overall..looking at it pragmatically and just going by facts...dedicated SCIENCE sessions haven't been productive, and even less so when we do it without specific, quest-relevant goals in mind. Nothing we've done in them would be worth missing out on chances to do-good or fix things over. SCIENCE is nice, but the sessions? They haven't been vital, and they still aren't. Especially if we aren't going to focus on specific things to do for them.
This definitely isn't an argument against doing SCIENCE at all. For our (extra, but in-character) goals to come to fruition, we are going to need some SCIENCE- at the bare minimum to save Oriko, for dewitching, to spread reliable and regular cleansing worldwide and for other things that come up. However, it seems to be a fairly common trend in-thread to act as though SCIENCE plays a large role, even a central, role in doing well and winning the quest. I believe this to be a mistake. SCIENCE is a useful tool, but it's a supplement. Something we put aside some time for, but need to have very specific and vital goals for during that time.
Now that we've established SCIENCE is useful but not the core of the quest, what should we be primarily focusing on instead? Social and existential threats. Social is what will make or break us. We need to spread word of our abilities and willingness to use them, to make friends, to mend bridges and right wrongs such as groups bullying others, posing a threat to others (cough cough Sasa and the twins) and to save girls from themselves where we have to. (Damnit Ono.) Without social, all our SCIENCE skills don't do very much. Right now, with clear seeds and cleansing? We can support a fairly large network of girls. Larger than we have now. And going by what Oriko said, that's what we'll need for Walpurgisnacht and what comes after.
Closer to home, social is how we save Madoka, convince Homura to work with everyone else and trust this is the last loop, help Mami be stable and happy, get Kyoko to come back, make Sayaka a true Hero of Justice...Basically, it's how we win.
Here's where we are now. We're heading back to have lunch with Madoka, Sayaka, Mami and the others. Oriko's presumably degemmed or otherwise handled- and incidentally, we did handle that in the best way we could under the circumstances.
(The answer here is and always has been to grab Mami to help with enchantment later since we simply aren't going to be good enough with defective griefhax that stops working when we're out of range, any more than we could heal Oriko's injuries earlier, and neither Oriko nor Kirika were getting anywhere with anything but relieving the pain for brief moments.)
But on topic: Lunch. We talk to Sayaka. Arrange for that training later, see how she's holding up. Mention that she can heal Kyousuke later today with one of the vets- Mami?- showing her the ropes and going with her. Reassure her as needed.
We talk to Madoka. Reassure her.
Homura, same.
Mami- make sure she's alright.
After lunch, deal with the Ono situation. Sasa hunt afterwards or before, but we can't afford to put Ono off any longer. Arrange the meet up between her and Masami.
Sasahunt is actually optional but probably should happen.
Later today, the order should probably be Sayakatalk/training->Sayaka and Mami visit the hospital, Sabrina and Madoka have a heart to heart where she asks about her problems and we try and discourage her from contracting and deal with her inevitable concerns and desire to help by asking her for advice about how we should handle Ono.
We probably won't get to cleansing everyone or even most of the Sendai group today- we need Mami to drop by Orikos with us to enchant things for them.
Tonight, we need to talk to her about the metaknowledge. Come clean, as it were.
After today? Well, training Sayaka and keeping Ono alive are taking up most of our time for the foreseeable future. Sasa needs to be dealt with. Science-wise, we just need SOME time put aside in between arranging cleansing for exactly two pieces of science research- clear seeds/cleansing and dewitching experiments that may include SCIENCE with Mami or further enchantment practice. We have the excuse for it anyway.
(The answer here is and always has been to grab Mami to help with enchantment later since we simply aren't going to be good enough with defective griefhax that stops working when we're out of range, any more than we could heal Oriko's injuries earlier, and neither Oriko nor Kirika were getting anywhere with anything but relieving the pain for brief moments.)
But on topic: Lunch. We talk to Sayaka. Arrange for that training later, see how she's holding up. Mention that she can heal Kyousuke later today with one of the vets- Mami?- showing her the ropes and going with her. Reassure her as needed.
We talk to Madoka. Reassure her.
Homura, same.
Mami- make sure she's alright.
After lunch, deal with the Ono situation. Sasa hunt afterwards or before, but we can't afford to put Ono off any longer. Arrange the meet up between her and Masami.
Sasahunt is actually optional but probably should happen.
Later today, the order should probably be Sayakatalk/training->Sayaka and Mami visit the hospital, Sabrina and Madoka have a heart to heart where she asks about her problems and we try and discourage her from contracting and deal with her inevitable concerns and desire to help by asking her for advice about how we should handle Ono.
We probably won't get to cleansing everyone or even most of the Sendai group today- we need Mami to drop by Orikos with us to enchant things for them.
Tonight, we need to talk to her about the metaknowledge. Come clean, as it were.
After today? Well, training Sayaka and keeping Ono alive are taking up most of our time for the foreseeable future. Sasa needs to be dealt with. Science-wise, we just need SOME time put aside in between arranging cleansing for exactly two pieces of science research- clear seeds/cleansing and dewitching experiments that may include SCIENCE with Mami or further enchantment practice. We have the excuse for it anyway.
DO....Keep track of time! Sabrina is awful at keeping track of what time it is, and these days our schedule's pretty busy, not to mention Mami limpeting on us.
DON'T...Forget about problems! Forgetting about things won't make them go away, only guarantee they'll come back to bite us at the absolute worst moment. Be proactive where practical, and check the PMAS Day Planner! (Sabrina's Day Planner)
DO...Talk to people! Chatter to them. Make friends! Find out what's wrong early so we can actually fix it. Being social is how we'll win PMAS. A friendly Sabrina is a victorious Sabrina.
DON'T....Put problematic characters off any longer than we need to. Sayaka, Ono, Madoka, Mami. That's just from quest. Canon has plenty more examples. Trauma and character flaws won't wait for our schedule to clear up before causing a wish or witch, so why should we?
DO...Allot spare time for side projects, social or otherwise. If there's one argument I can't disagree with, it's that we can use side time such as transit to do things. Science, communication, being sociable it's all possible thanks to Sabrina's limited multitasking.
DON'T....Get carried away by non-quest important objectives. That doesn't mean that ALL science is good for us or gets us anything. Some risks and some science just isn't worth it.
DO...Keep track of goals! Dewitching, seed research, and cleansing are the big ones, but SCIENCE is at its most useful when we know what we're doing. Sure, we can improvise, but flailing randomly is a tragic waste of whatever time we've allotted. Go in with a plan and you'll rarely be disappointed.
DON'T...Do science on your own. Much like with deep sea diving, friends don't let friends conduct research into things beyond mortal understanding without a good buddy there to help...or at least have a grief seed at the ready in case something blows up. Maybe not Mami after last time though...
DON'T...Forget about problems! Forgetting about things won't make them go away, only guarantee they'll come back to bite us at the absolute worst moment. Be proactive where practical, and check the PMAS Day Planner! (Sabrina's Day Planner)
DO...Talk to people! Chatter to them. Make friends! Find out what's wrong early so we can actually fix it. Being social is how we'll win PMAS. A friendly Sabrina is a victorious Sabrina.
DON'T....Put problematic characters off any longer than we need to. Sayaka, Ono, Madoka, Mami. That's just from quest. Canon has plenty more examples. Trauma and character flaws won't wait for our schedule to clear up before causing a wish or witch, so why should we?
DO...Allot spare time for side projects, social or otherwise. If there's one argument I can't disagree with, it's that we can use side time such as transit to do things. Science, communication, being sociable it's all possible thanks to Sabrina's limited multitasking.
DON'T....Get carried away by non-quest important objectives. That doesn't mean that ALL science is good for us or gets us anything. Some risks and some science just isn't worth it.
DO...Keep track of goals! Dewitching, seed research, and cleansing are the big ones, but SCIENCE is at its most useful when we know what we're doing. Sure, we can improvise, but flailing randomly is a tragic waste of whatever time we've allotted. Go in with a plan and you'll rarely be disappointed.
DON'T...Do science on your own. Much like with deep sea diving, friends don't let friends conduct research into things beyond mortal understanding without a good buddy there to help...or at least have a grief seed at the ready in case something blows up. Maybe not Mami after last time though...
Sabrina is the thread is Sabrina.
Less jokingly and more in-depth, let's look at what she does.
She lied to Madoka and Sayaka right after contracting. She kept lying and pretending to them, Kyubey, and Mami, playing the harmless rookie. She took Homura aside- and told her as much of the truth as she felt she needed to and could under the circumstances, while being wary of her and ready to try and run if she had to. This will be a recurring theme. She wasn't happy about it, but she did it anyway.
Using her metaknowledge, she befriended Mami. Out of pragmatism- if she has a junior magi as a friend that cares about her, she won't go after Madoka or Sayaka so much, but also because she cared.
Less jokingly and more in-depth, let's look at what she does.
She lied to Madoka and Sayaka right after contracting. She kept lying and pretending to them, Kyubey, and Mami, playing the harmless rookie. She took Homura aside- and told her as much of the truth as she felt she needed to and could under the circumstances, while being wary of her and ready to try and run if she had to. This will be a recurring theme. She wasn't happy about it, but she did it anyway.
Using her metaknowledge, she befriended Mami. Out of pragmatism- if she has a junior magi as a friend that cares about her, she won't go after Madoka or Sayaka so much, but also because she cared.
Used cannongerbil's list and the calendar as references. Thanks for that, guys.
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Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
I think we need to deal with our problems first:
- Mami witch bomb is coming, if not us it is going to be Kyubey.
- Discover Sayaka wish( this is one is personal i am kind of curious/worried).
- Poor Kyousuke hand.
- Try to Convice Kyouko to join the 2cool4school club.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
We don't want you to change your opinions, we want to know what causes you to have them. We want whatever facts you have that have convinced you so thoroughly of this. That is what we are asking. How. Not why. How are you going to make everything better in the long run.
And I can't help but notice that you completely ignored me when I pointed out that Dewitching is harder than Timestop, but, according to you, Timestop is not a thing that can be done with enchanting while Dewitching somehow is. Explain this?
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
The one making the bracelets is Homura ? If it is then she can do it, If it is us then it will be easier to us to make dewitching bracelets, cause its more in tune with the theme of our powers.
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EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
The playerbase insisting on something means they're not sure and want to know. There is no right and wrong here, only you expressed such. No one's asking you to adjust you opinion to them and viceversa. If you're treating this a la "if you're not with me, you're then against me.", then we're done here. Same goes with your arrogant viewpoint of thinking you're always right and giving little to no explanation regarding how such a thing works. No one listens to arrogant people, even if they're right.
*sigh*
At least you're going to explain your point (thanks, @defenestrator), that's good.
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
Sorry for doubleposting.
Well, happens way to often on this regard.
You're not helping.
Well, happens way to often on this regard.
You're not helping.
Pretty sure- telepathy derped in timestop unless I'm remembering wrong.
Also writing up Defen's request. Slowly.
- Location
- South Africa
I see no evidence to believe that we will fail at either of these endeavors. I believe that we will perfectly replicate Homura's timestop the very instant we try.
We appear to be misunderstanding each other. I never suggested speaking to Kyuubey and agree that it'd go terribly (which was what I was saying with my list of Kyuubey answers)
Neither is a win condition We've still got plenty of work to do after pulling those off.
You insisting on something doesn't make it true either. In fact, you've been proven wrong before by updates. No one is going to change their views because you claim that they are wrong. If you have a good reason for believing that, provide the reason. Because changing your opinion simply because someone tells you to without any evidence is ridiculous.
If we need to do it, then dewitching without doing it is not a win condition as we haven't done what we need to do.
No one's claiming it is. It'll become so the instant we cause a reduction in grief seed supply though. (Witch dewitching will do)
Again, no one is claiming this.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
They're both win conditions in that they are necessary but not sufficient preconditions for victory.
- Location
- South Africa
Then we've been using the term differently from each other. I was under the impression that "win condition" meant "sufficient (though not necessarily necessary) by itself, no other considerations necessary, for instant victory, making the quest over and a good end already achieved".