[X] I'll try myself, but please back me up?
[X] Tell Mami and Homura you're going to bring Miss Ono into the timestop.
-[x] When everyone is ready, wrap a small ring of grief around one of Megane's fingers. See if that brings her into the timestop. If not, just use a conventional method.
--[x]If touching Ono is necessary, ask Mami to keep Soul Gem safe.
[x] "This might be a delayed answer," cleanse her Soul Gem, "but I do think your life is very important."
-[x] Take one of your Grief Seeds (The witch you fought just before the end of school), and leave it on her bedside.
-[x] "You're killing yourself, Megane. That's what'll happen when your Soul Gem fills up completely, or when you go try to fight a Witch alone, while high on corruption, on magic-induced depression."
-[x] "I can see that you have a lot on your mind and I want to help. Helping each other is how we cope. There's nothing weak about asking for it and you're now a part of this team, so I don't want to lose you, just as I wouldn't want to lose any other members of our team. Are you ready to let us help you?"
 
Okay, let me give it a try~
[] Exit Apartment
-Reseal on exit

[] Telepathy Ono
-You just activated my Helper Complex. Prepare yourself.

[] Broach subjects of Gifts with Homura and Mami. Explain reasoning.
-Acquire fuzzy blanket
-Teddy Bear
-Chocolates.
-ice cream
-spoons
-Welcome Card: Write greeting
Wrap and package beautifully.

[] Show up at window
"You sound like you could use some ice cream"

It's stupidly domestic, and the sort of thing we could actually pull off. This isn't a inquisitor quest where evething needs to happen now right where we're standing. Showing up immediately inside her room is a bad idea that I think will sour further interactions. Telling her we're coming will give her some time to prepare, or indignantly do nothing, but at least know we're showing up before hand.

And everybody likes getting gifts. It's hard to stay mad at people who are getting you gifts.

And on a deeper level, it's a gesture of inclusion. Ono is struggling with feelings of inadequacy, and maintaining poise is apparently very important to her. But its not working, and her now she's got more problems then she bargined for.
By giving her a welcome package and bringing her into the club, she can feel like a part of something. A part of the team.
 
[] Broach subjects of Gifts with Homura and Mami. Explain reasoning.
-Acquire fuzzy blanket
-Teddy Bear
-Chocolates.
-ice cream
-spoons
-Welcome Card: Write greeting
Wrap and package beautifully.
If you're going to cover her in fluffy and fun things that Momdoka people loves like, why not just go the full hog and array them around her room? Snacks on a table in front of her, cover her with the blanket, place the Teddy Bear on the side that we're not hugging her on, and then undo timestop. Watch her face as we are suddenly hugging her while her room looks like we're having a sleep over or something. There's just no point otherwise.
 
Okay, let me give it a try~
[] Exit Apartment
-Reseal on exit

[] Telepathy Ono
-You just activated my Helper Complex. Prepare yourself.

[] Broach subjects of Gifts with Homura and Mami. Explain reasoning.
-Acquire fuzzy blanket
-Teddy Bear
-Chocolates.
-ice cream
-spoons
-Welcome Card: Write greeting
Wrap and package beautifully.

[] Show up at window
"You sound like you could use some ice cream"

It's stupidly domestic, and the sort of thing we could actually pull off. This isn't a inquisitor quest where evething needs to happen now right where we're standing. Showing up immediately inside her room is a bad idea that I think will sour further interactions. Telling her we're coming will give her some time to prepare, or indignantly do nothing, but at least know we're showing up before hand.

And everybody likes getting gifts. It's hard to stay mad at people who are getting you gifts.

And on a deeper level, it's a gesture of inclusion. Ono is struggling with feelings of inadequacy, and maintaining poise is apparently very important to her. But its not working, and her now she's got more problems then she bargined for.
By giving her a welcome package and bringing her into the club, she can feel like a part of something. A part of the team.


Honestly, I do like the basic idea ...
 
Honestly, I do like the basic idea ...
It's a lateral solution to the problem. It both shows we care, and clearly says "we take helping each other seriously."

Once she's in a better place, we can talk about some of the heavier stuff. At least this will set us at a better position to to talk with her, instead of showing up in her room suddenly and intrusively.

What are the problems with it?
 
Speaking of crazy three faced staves, would our lives improve or worsen if we turned Ono into a cheese roll or a chicken?
Worsen.

It's a lateral solution to the problem. It both shows we care, and clearly says "we take helping each other seriously."

Once she's in a better place, we can talk about some of the heavier stuff. At least this will set us at a better position to to talk with her, instead of showing up in her room suddenly and intrusively.

What are the problems with it?
Do you really think Ono will take kindly to all... this idea?

Showing up with presents as if we just needed to coddle her and she would be all better?
 
It's a lateral solution to the problem. It both shows we care, and clearly says "we take helping each other seriously."

Once she's in a better place, we can talk about some of the heavier stuff. At least this will set us at a better position to to talk with her, instead of showing up in her room suddenly and intrusively.

What are the problems with it?
My biggest fears are that she takes it as a joke we're playing on her or thinks that we're not treating her with appropriate levity or she feels belittled.

I mean, there will be risks whatever approach we take, but I actually do like the idea of sharing food together. Sharing food is a powerful thing. In any event, you haven't added xs yet.

EDIT:^ Yeah, that, basically. She won't like it if she thinks we're treating her like a child.
 
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Showing up with presents as if we just needed to coddle her and she would be all better?
You spelled cuddle wrong. It's a plan that will probably really annoy her, but at least it'll do so in such a ridiculous fashion that she'll be on the back foot when we start talking, so there is some benefit to the plan.
 
Do you really think Ono will take kindly to all... this idea?

Showing up with presents as if we just needed to coddle her and she would be all better?
Maybe, if we emphasis it in that manner, but annoyance is a better place to start from than appearfying in the middle of her room.
Remember Koyoko? We started off with gifts for her too, fumbled it at the last second with Mami, and were afraid to talk to her for -like- a year. Then we buckled down, sparred with her, and pretty much became sisters. became friends.

Compare that to the Telekinetic and the Illusionist: Don't remember the specifics, but we knuckled down fairly hard on the authoritarian mode, and that put a block on five separate relationships. And we've only started getting on better terms with them recently, and coincidentally it involved
ice-cream.

This isn't a bad place to start from. She's inexperienced and has lots she doesn't know. The gesture will put her in a position that's harder to refuse us from. Us showing up with a gift basket, some answers, and a 'I'm sorry," isn't too bad for a next impression.

Perhaps some more practical gifts are in order though. Ideas off the top of my head:
- Sturdy Backpack
-Rain Coat
-City Map + Notes on locations of girls n' important sites
-Knife
-Compass
-Notebook with important stuff to remember.
 
We need to make it clear her life matters more, and that it's what we care about. We're not holding back on that.
The point is not to withhold the seed from her: we want her to stay safe and (currently) that means that she needs to have a seed. However, we need to make absolutely sure that she understands how important it is that she not give the seed to Kyuubey. If she doesn't understand that, then we need to keep bugging her until she gets it. But we absolutely should not give the seed to her without that reassurance because otherwise there's a fair chance that Andrea would end up beyond our reach and beyond any chance of restoration, just like Gwen was.

It feels like you're really not grasping the objections here. Ono is calm at the moment. If we pop up, she's going to be upset (to varying degrees, and defusable to varying degrees). If we pop up and slam grief walls around her (and restrain her, and start demanding stuff of her and so forth, in your vote), you're ratcheting up the aggressive presence beyond recoverability. You cannot defuse that, and you don't even make an attempt to counterbalance that action. It is, as noted, a terrible idea. That's the way you treat an enemy, not a friend.
Ono is not our enemy, but she isn't exactly our friend, either. She did join the team, but right now she's acting in a self destructive manner which required us to take extreme action (breaking into her house and snooping through her things) in order to save her life. You say that Ono is calm (and she does appear to be so), but her posture and her behavior and the grief in her soul gem clearly show that she is anything but calm. When we show up, regardless of body posture and regardless of whether we appear in the room or at the window, Ono is going to flip her lid and she might turn violent. I want to be prepared for that eventuality and I want to limit the exposure so that the confrontation won't blow over and disturb Ono's mother/sister. My approach is aggressive and direct because I think that's the best way to blow through Ono's defenses and force her to take this seriously. We already made several attempts to talk to her reasonably - they didn't work earlier and they're not going to work now.

Okay, let me give it a try~
[] Exit Apartment
-Reseal on exit

[] Telepathy Ono
-You just activated my Helper Complex. Prepare yourself.

[] Broach subjects of Gifts with Homura and Mami. Explain reasoning.
-Acquire fuzzy blanket
-Teddy Bear
-Chocolates.
-ice cream
-spoons
-Welcome Card: Write greeting
Wrap and package beautifully.

[] Show up at window
"You sound like you could use some ice cream"

It's stupidly domestic, and the sort of thing we could actually pull off. This isn't a inquisitor quest where evething needs to happen now right where we're standing. Showing up immediately inside her room is a bad idea that I think will sour further interactions. Telling her we're coming will give her some time to prepare, or indignantly do nothing, but at least know we're showing up before hand.

And everybody likes getting gifts. It's hard to stay mad at people who are getting you gifts.

And on a deeper level, it's a gesture of inclusion. Ono is struggling with feelings of inadequacy, and maintaining poise is apparently very important to her. But its not working, and her now she's got more problems then she bargined for.
By giving her a welcome package and bringing her into the club, she can feel like a part of something. A part of the team.
The problem with this approach is that Ono is already antagonistic. It might have worked if we had kept the appointment this afternoon or if we were able to put off the appointment until tomorrow, but right now Ono has made it abundantly clear that she wants nothing to do with us. Simply by showing up we are violating her agency and her privacy (i.e. she never told us where she lived). Gifts can't help smooth things over at the moment.
 
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The problem with this approach is that Ono is already antagonistic. It might have worked if we had kept the appointment this afternoon or if we were able to put off the appointment until tomorrow, but right now Ono has made it abundantly clear that she wants nothing to do with us. Simply by showing up we are violating her agency and her privacy (i.e. she never told us where she lived). Gifts can't help smooth things over at the moment.
Antagonizing in response isn't going to make it easier to win her over, Honey vs Vinegar and all that. It justifies further dislike of us, and gives her reasonable fuel to be uncooperative in the future. It's easy for her to be indignant and furious at us if we show up in the middle of her room unannounced. It's harder when we show up on her windowsill like a Magical Fairy with ice-cream and a care package.
 
Redecorating her room? Her sanctum? That's a sorority pledging prank; the point is to stress people so they'll decide the sorority is worth the crap they went through to join. Or, y'know, to quit. I don't think we want her to quit. We've wasted a lot of time on this if so.

Although I suppose you could play it as hazing the new girl. I'm just thinking that wasn't the original intention. Also, I doubt she'd take that rationale at all well.

As an alternative:
  • sit beside Megane on the bed
  • send Mami and Homura outside; drop timestop
  • Don't give her time to say anything. Don't rush, either. Just move from one thing to the next.
  • put your hand on Megane's shoulder and say: Look, I just stopped by because yesterday when we met you seemed really stressed
  • (pull grief from her soul gem) You still do.
  • (give her a grief seed; place it in her hand, drop it in her lap, whatever) I'd like this one back when you're done with it.
  • Homura, now. Timestop out of there.
  • plan to ignore her telepathy for tonight
  • plan to meet before school tomorrow. Y'know, an actual meeting where both people actually get to talk.
 
Antagonizing in response isn't going to make it easier to win her over, Honey vs Vinegar and all that. It justifies further dislike of us, and gives her reasonable fuel to be uncooperative in the future. It's easy for her to be indignant and furious at us if we show up in the middle of her room unannounced. It's harder when we show up on her windowsill like a Magical Fairy with ice-cream and a care package.
It will be quite easy for Ono to be indignant and furious at us when we show up unannounced and against her will. She neither asked for nor wants ice-cream from us. At this point in time, no amount of honey is going to "win her over". She doesn't like us and she will continue to dislike us no matter what we do here. We may have opportunities to change that in future interactions, but the goal of the current meeting should be:
1. Cleanse Ono's gem
2. Make sure that she knows how important cleansing and seeds are so that we don't have any repeats of this situation.
3. (Optionally) find out what was bothering Ono so that she doesn't keep getting worse.

Ono doesn't have to like us, she just has to stay alive.
 
I do understand the concerns about Ono's reaction to instant pop-up, but that's part of what I'm trying to defuse in the physical aspects of the introduction.

The surprise appearance will cause a moment of shock, which gives a brief moment to set the tone. Stepping back and sitting down on the floor is a non-confrontational gesture, with a psychologically submissive aspect. It should drain the tension that might lead to an immediate physical attack, although it's likely that it will be followed up by an emotional lashing out. Placing Mami out in front with a somewhat hesitant bearing, and the likelihood of her sitting to place her on an equal level with Ono (rather than continuing to stand, and being an overbearing presence), should defuse the high-end emotional backlash. After that point, Ono should be at a low simmer, which is really the best that can be hoped for in this situation.

I, on the other hand, do not think that any kind of gesture can defuse the tension sufficiently to communicate at the level we need to.

You're right that physical positioning will help her contextualize us in terms of threat and standing between the parties involved, but you're extremely wrong that we want that.

I said this earlier, but we need our words to have Gravitas, to have significant weight. If we want to put it in conversational roles, it needs to be clear that we lead, the others follow, and that we speak with authority on MG subjects because we are an authority on MG subjects.

We saw this in action when we met her: she was respectful of Mami and paid little heed to Sabrina because that's how we chose to present ourselves, with Mami leading introductions and making the leadership decisions, and Sabrina slightly more physically distant.

However, I don't think that we should play by the conversational structures she expects. I think we should act in a way that breaks all her expected convention and establishes a new paradigm for our future meetings, after the expected blowup or other difficulties are done.

Part of why she feels slighted is that she got the structure of our team wrong and still doesn't know it - it's less a network of girls who coordinate and fight together and more a combination of a problem-solving team and a social support structure. All of Mami, Homura, and Sabrina have ended up in tears while supported by another at some point. So the distance she thought she could maintain and the equality she expected from the start both won't exist for a newcomer, although it can be established.

Much of that will go out the window when we invade her personal space against her explicit non-consent and present an entirely new set of things she has major issue with. But I hope it serves to illustrate that holding this conversation to expected social convention won't do us much good, because part of why we're here is to establish a new way she and Sabrina and the others expect to meet and interact.

Likewise, with Onmur's and SWB's thoughts, Mami being the voice in this conversation will likely be much better in showing we care, because Sabrina just doesn't do "subtle caring" very well at all. If you want someone to recognize the real concern you have, let Mami do the talking; Sabrina will just screw it up.

I think we're perfectly capable of doing the Madoka, but let me get the other point of contention out of the way first.

Kine, Mami isn't any better at subtle caring (not sure that's the phrase I'd use tho) than we are. Where exactly in her lonely last two years has she had a chance to develop this skill? Mami is best at professional interaction, at establishing or fitting in to role relationships, and at diplomacy/detente with strangers. She isn't good at getting others to open up when they don't want to, and has in fact experienced a number of failures at this in both canon and PMAS canon. I'd suggest her if I thought there was a sure way to make this work, as a confidence booster. But as things are, while she might do a great job at the initial presentation, this is a conversation where failure of some sort is inevitable. And the moment that happens Mami at best turns to us with an I don't know what to do and at worst loses a lot of confidence over another social failure to support someone, this time when Sabrina was counting in her.

I think Mami can play a big role here, but as someone who is led. We have to be stubbornly kind and stubbornly patient here, and as I said earlier, I do think we can pull a Madoka, if for no other reason than that Sabrina does what we vote for. But I also think Sabrina has it in her - we kind of did with Kyoko, refer to the too nice comment, and Homura was reminded of Madoka after seeing us in action for good reason. And well...

It's in our metaphorical genes, no?
 
It will be quite easy for Ono to be indignant and furious at us when we show up unannounced and against her will. She neither asked for nor wants ice-cream from us. At this point in time, no amount of honey is going to "win her over". She doesn't like us and she will continue to dislike us no matter what we do here. We may have opportunities to change that in future interactions, but the goal of the current meeting should be:
1. Cleanse Ono's gem
2. Make sure that she knows how important cleansing and seeds are so that we don't have any repeats of this situation.
3. (Optionally) find out what was bothering Ono so that she doesn't keep getting worse.

Ono doesn't have to like us, she just has to stay alive.
Actively appearing inside her room uninvited > Actively appearing on her windowsill with ice cream.

Of the two, one is visibly disturbing and a explicit violation of her privacy, the other will produce mild annoyance at worst. The explicit one will make future cooperation harder, and considering her current instability that's not something she needs. And she would be justified at being angry with us, it would probably the worst social faux-pas we've ever made.

There is a difference between knowing where someone lives, and appearing uninvited inside their house.

And why would we think that further sincerity wouldn't work? All we've tried is our words via-telepathic phone, and even then they were just some elevator generic "We're sorry to have kept you waiting, we can have the meeting now." Not...really all that nice.
Saying that we can't convince her and that she's going to dislike us no matter what sounds like a justification. Thinking that means we can take the most direct option now, because nothing can make it worse. I don't agree with that, this is a minor case that does not warrent the Terminator-serious "Da Family is concerned by ya lack of cordiality. Be a shame if ya mother were to hear us discussen business. Best keep ya voice down."

And whats with this Grizzled Batman sentiment "She doesn't have to like us, she just have to stay alive." Leadership comes from peoples willingness to follow, and a terrified alive meguca isn't as useful as a annoyed quasi-friend meguca.

We have a terrible track record at convincing people of things. Specifically direct conversations. Our best successes are when we do things instead of just talking. Showing up in her room is going to be exactly that, just talking. After scaring her and implying her house isn't safe and waving around how powerful we are. She's going to see it as, "I mouthed off to the boss and the boss broke into my house to lecture me"

And in regards to conversational Objectives:
1. Cleanse Ono's gem. Easy, will be done in the course of talking

2. Make sure that she knows how important cleansing and seeds are so that we don't have any repeats of this situation. Also will be done in course of talking, likely morso if she's actually allowed to talk

3. (Optionally) find out what was bothering Ono so that she doesn't keep getting worse.
Won't happen if we try the confrontational route. She'll shut down and just nod and shake her head.

Edited Plan:
[] Exit Apartment
-Reseal on exit

[] Telepathy Ono
-You just activated my Helper Complex. Prepare yourself.

[] Grab some essentials
-City Map + Notes on locations of girls n' important sites
-Compass

[] Get some ice-cream
-spoons
-bowls

[] Show up at window
"You sound like you could use some ice cream"
 
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The social parts seem to be on the same level of difficulty as dark souls, one wrong move and everything we worked for is utterly destroyed, except there is no way to reset things, and there is no official guide to help us.
 
I'm inclined to think the gift idea is a waste of effort, a waste of time and in general divorced from the situation that's in front of us. There has been no IC hints that suggest we should do this to any extent.
 
I honestly think the 'ice cream\gifts' option is condescending as all hell, and would result in: Madokami literally manifesting to show how dissapointed she is. Mami and Homura seriously considering whether the stress is getting to our head.
 
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I'm inclined to think the gift idea is a waste of effort, a waste of time and in general divorced from the situation that's in front of us. There has been no IC hints that suggest we should do this to any extent.
Why would we need IC hints to justify it? Our ability to convince others have been directly congruent with what actions accompany our words.
Thinking outside of the box for a solution isn't a bad thing.

And why do we need to treat the situation in front of us as though the only solution is to intrude on her privacy in a abusive manner, lecture her about her new life, and disappearing after destroying her last safe place? That seems lazy to me. The easiest course of action by default of being in front of us.
 
The social parts seem to be on the same level of difficulty as dark souls, one wrong move and everything we worked for is utterly destroyed, except there is no way to reset things, and there is no official guide to help us.
And to demonstrate this: Quick poll would you rather:

A) Face down the Aokigahara witch?

or

B)Try and stabilize Mami after her finding out about where witches come from?
 
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