Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

[Sereg]

[x]Muramasa

I do want to show concern. My fear though is that she reacts badly at what she sees as pity. As said, she doesn't take well to having her pride hurt.

Maybe we should include something like this, "You seem to be under the impression that magical girls can maintain a high quality of life in all aspects of their life while easily fulfilling their duties. This isn't the case. Magical girls generally have short, unpleasant lives and it's only the fact that we support each other that we have begun to avert that. Needing our help doesn't make you weak."

EDIT: I'm not angry with Ono. I just think that helping her is beyond our expertise. I still think we should try our best though.

 

[Agent Whiskers]

[X] Are you sure, Mami? If you're not up to it, I'll do it.
[X] If Mami's up to it, nod. Suggest perhaps that we shouldn't just appear in her room.
[X] If Mami's not up to it, suggest leaving the apartment. Re lock all doors.
[X] Fly to Megane's window. Grief carpet . Maintain some distance. End timestop.
[X] Telepathy Megane:
-[x] Your magic expenditures are a severe problem. If we don't address it tonight, it will kill you.
-[x] Tell her to look out the window.
-[x] It is this important Miss Ono. Please come out.

Click to shrink...

Actually thinking about it...

Do we necessarily need her to come out right off at the start? Presumably we would have a clear view of her, and we could just talk or telepath her through the window and say what we need to say. Of course, we still probably need to give her a grief seed and it would still may be better to talk outside, but it still might be worth thinking about it, especially if she still insists on refusing to come out for whatever reason.

Oh wait I forgot, curtains and blinds.
Okay might not work after all.

 

[Onmur]

Maybe we should include something like this, "You seem to be under the impression that magical girls can maintain a high quality of life in all aspects of their life while easily fulfilling their duties. This isn't the case. Magical girls generally have short, unpleasant lives and it's only the fact that we support each other that we have begun to avert that. Needing our help doesn't make you weak."

Click to shrink...

I guess that'd be for the part where we actually talk, if Mami isn't up for it.

Maybe we can take an update to talk things through with Mami, and let her into our thoughts.

 

[Agent Whiskers]

We are telling her about the lich bomb right? Because she's going to want an explanation about gem corruption hurting or killing her, and there's a good chance that she'll puzzle it out on her own regardless. It's not exactly a difficult leap to make.

 

[FlatlineAskari]

If we don't define our remit that widely, we're violating the intent of our supposed long-term goals.

I also didn't say we needed to be her friend (though that in itself is a horribly ambiguous phrase that is largely a meaningless distraction in the current debate context). I'm saying that if we're not willing to do the work to help the people we can, then if/when those people are capable of standing on their own (and aren't literally left to die), they're not going to be inclined to help us help more people, or even help other people themselves. If the atmosphere we create is that troublesome people will be abandoned (or only given the bare minimum of support), then we're really just supporting the status quo for magical girls — look out for number one, because you can't trust anyone else to have your back.

Click to shrink...

But keeping her gem clean is the work. It's her big life-ending problem, it's our big life-changing qualification. Seeing to that one way or another is, as far as I can tell, unanimous; that's a gaping hole in that status quo in and of itself.
But beyond that, if our wider intention is to sink arbitrary amounts of time and effort into personally ensuring that no magical girl has any mundane problems, ever, we are - I reiterate - screwed. Giving Mami the Mami treatment is enough of a task.

 

[EtchedSteel]

[x] Muramasa

 

[Onmur]

But keeping her gem clean is the work. It's her big life-ending problem, it's our big life-changing qualification. Seeing to that one way or another is, as far as I can tell, unanimous; that's a gaping hole in that status quo in and of itself.
But beyond that, if our wider intention is to sink arbitrary amounts of time and effort into personally ensuring that no magical girl has any mundane problems, ever, we are - I reiterate - screwed. Giving Mami the Mami treatment is enough of a task.

Click to shrink...

Well, there is a certain amount of 'sinking arbitrary amounts of time and effort' into helping Magical Girls with their mundane problems, that we need to do. After all, megucable girls are most often those already burdened with problems they can't deal with.

The megucas we can help with only our Grief Cleansing are the ones that are already strong enough to survive the system as it is, and we still are trying to come up with ways to help them further (The Best Exotic Mami Gold Hotel, or something).

[X] Are you sure, Mami? If you're not up to it, I'll do it.
[X] If Mami's up to it, nod. Suggest perhaps that we shouldn't just appear in her room.
[X] If Mami's not up to it, suggest leaving the apartment. Re lock all doors.
[X] Fly to Megane's window. Grief carpet. Maintain some distance. End timestop.
[X] Telepathy Megane:
-[x] Your magic expenditures are a severe problem. If we don't address it tonight, it will kill you.
-[x] Tell her to look out the window.
-[x] It is this important Miss Ono. Please come out.

Click to shrink...

What if Mami says yes? Should the vote reflect that option? We should let her know our thoughts before we give her the floor.

 

[o3o]

I dunno how we can give multiple girls the Mami treatment considering we can only really sleep in one bed at a time.
...unless they come over to Mami's house...?

 

[Torgamous]

Maybe we should include something like this, "You seem to be under the impression that magical girls can maintain a high quality of life in all aspects of their life while easily fulfilling their duties. This isn't the case. Magical girls generally have short, unpleasant lives and it's only the fact that we support each other that we have begun to avert that. Needing our help doesn't make you weak."

Click to shrink...

That seems a bit abstract and platitudinous.

"You have in front of you three of the best magical girls in the area. Homura and Mami are the most veteran girls I know of and I'm a special case. We don't work alone. When Mami and Homura need cleanses, they tell me and I give them cleanses. When Mami and I need time, we tell Homura and she gives us time. When Homura and I need a badass we tell Mami and she comes. This system keeps all of us alive. It depends on people telling everyone else when they need something that someone else can provide."

"To the south there's another magical girl. She's not as good as Mami but I'd put good odds between her and almost anyone else. She prefers living and hunting alone. She would've died before I got to meet her if not for a magical girl she'd met a few days before. They work together now."

"To the north is another girl, an illusionist like you, who used to like to work alone. I'm not sure of the exact timetable but she spent a good while having been cut in half because of that. She doesn't work alone anymore."

 

[Onmur]

I've got an unrelated thought, that I don't know if it has been brought up, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was:

Back when we poked Hildegarde, or tried to dominate the chicken familiar, we seemingly got mind blasted by our targets, or maybe by the Incubator Witch, in case of the chicken.

What if it wasn't them that struck back at us? Or the pain and grief accumulation didn't come from creating a link with them, by itself?

What if this was Kyubey's work? We've seen Kyubey control Sayaka's senses through her Soul Gem and, while it seemingly needed to touch her Soul Gem in order to do it, it's not likely that's the only way.

Maybe Kyubey installed... measures in our Soul Gem when it heard our Wish. Maybe to limit us, so we don't mess with his precious energy program.

I think this could make sense, taking two things into account:

The searing attention of something vast upon you.

Click to shrink...

I don't think this 'something vast' is the Witch. I think it's that measure installed in our Soul Gem; it would make sense, since our Soul Gem is literally larger than our Soul as it is, in fact, enveloping it.

The other thing that makes me think this 'anti-Witch-communication/stealing' behavior is an intended function, put in place, is that the second time, the Chicken time, seemed to be a hell of a lot worse than the first. It'd make sense if Kyubey wanted to discourage us from that path, to increase the 'punishment' every time we try.

So, that.

I dunno how we can give multiple girls the Mami treatment considering we can only really sleep in one bed at a time.
...unless they come over to Mami's house...?

Click to shrink...

We'd need a really big bed.

 

[Kinematics]

But keeping her gem clean is the work. It's her big life-ending problem, it's our big life-changing qualification.

Click to shrink...

Well, no, not really. Grief-cleansing is a bandage on the problem. It's a powerful and useful tool, but the problem is not merely "keeping her gem clean"; the problem is "that which causes the gem to be dirty". And we usually can't just magic the underlying problem away.

But beyond that, if our wider intention is to sink arbitrary amounts of time and effort into personally ensuring that no magical girl has any mundane problems, ever, we are - I reiterate - screwed. Giving Mami the Mami treatment is enough of a task.

Click to shrink...

My assertion is not that we sink that effort into every single magical girl in the world; it's that we should sink substantial effort into every single magical girl we come across, because the girls we help (and believe that such help can be given) will eventually be giving that help to others that they meet.

That early, tiny growth of the support network must believe that such help is both possible and worthwhile, and that belief primarily comes from personal experience.

"You have in front of you three of the best magical girls in the area. Homura and Mami are the most veteran girls I know of and I'm a special case. We don't work alone. When Mami and Homura need cleanses, they tell me and I give them cleanses. When Mami and I need time, we tell Homura and she gives us time. When Homura and I need a badass we tell Mami and she comes. This system keeps all of us alive. It depends on people telling everyone else when they need something that someone else can provide."

"To the south there's another magical girl. She's not as good as Mami but I'd put good odds between her and almost anyone else. She prefers living and hunting alone. She would've died before I got to meet her if not for a magical girl she'd met a few days before. They work together now."

"To the north is another girl, an illusionist like you, who used to like to work alone. I'm not sure of the exact timetable but she spent a good while having been cut in half because of that. She doesn't work alone anymore."

Click to shrink...

That's actually a wonderful bit of explanation. It's quite a long chunk, but I'd be happy if it was in the vote, somehow.

Though I was thinking Kyouko and Masami were east and west rather than north and south. Also, Masami, the telekinetic, was the one cut in half, not the illusionist (who just hid the injuries).

 

[o3o]

I've got an unrelated thought, that I don't know if it has been brought up, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was:

Back when we poked Hildegarde, or tried to dominate the chicken familiar, we seemingly got mind blasted by our targets, or maybe by the Incubator Witch, in case of the chicken.

What if it wasn't them that struck back at us? Or the pain and grief accumulation didn't come from creating a link with them, by itself?

What if this was Kyubey's work? We've seen Kyubey control Sayaka's senses through her Soul Gem and, while it seemingly needed to touch her Soul Gem in order to do it, it's not likely that's the only way.

Maybe Kyubey installed... measures in our Soul Gem when it heard our Wish. Maybe to limit us, so we don't mess with his precious energy program.

I think this could make sense, taking two things into account:
I don't think this 'something vast' is the Witch. I think it's that measure installed in our Soul Gem; it would make sense, since our Soul Gem is literally larger than our Soul as it is, in fact, enveloping it.

The other thing that makes me think this 'anti-Witch-communication/stealing' behavior is an intended function, put in place, is that the second time, the Chicken time, seemed to be a hell of a lot worse than the first. It'd make sense if Kyubey wanted to discourage us from that path, to increase the 'punishment' every time we try.

So, that.


We'd need a really big bed.

Click to shrink...

[q]Make bigger bed out of grief.
-[q]Scratch that, you like Mami's bed. Make bed extensions out of grief.

 

[Onmur]

My assertion is not that we sink that effort into every single magical girl in the world; it's that we should sink substantial effort into every single magical girl we come across, because the girls we help (and believe that such help can be given) will eventually be giving that help to others that they meet.

That early, tiny growth of the support network must believe that such help is both possible and worthwhile, and that belief primarily comes from personal experience.

Click to shrink...

Put that way, that doesn't sound bad, unless we start finding Onos and Mamis around every corner.

Still, I think we are doing all we can for Ono. There's been a pattern in this thread, that when met with a 'dangerous' social situation, we seem to go: 'We're patient one more vote, but next one we tear into them! For real this time!', followed by us mellowing a bit in the time until the next vote, where we once more try the patient way, even though we get more and more impatient doing this.

[q]Make bigger bed out of grief.
-[q]Scratch that, you like Mami's bed. Make bed extensions out of grief.

Click to shrink...

You play gods. We haven't even tried Grief hair extensions yet, how are we gonna achieve... this?

 

[Boobah]

I thought that was way early for an update.

A few thoughts:

First off, Megane's school is Yokosuka Academy. The name has meaning, of course. The two most obvious things are

• Yokosuka is where some crazy gaijin made landfall and forcibly ended Japan's isolation. Dammit, Firn. Not that there was any real guesswork involved by this point.
  
• Five years later Yokosuka became the birthplace of modern (or at least industrial) Japan. And Mitakihara is, IIRC, doing the rust belt thing. Can you say institutional inadequacy and/or failure?

Second, whatever else, it seems apparent that Megane's room is her labyrinth. Just popping into her safe place where she's supposed to be hidden from the damn world is going to provoke a severe emotional response. Or as much of one as she can manage...

Which brings me to my third point, which is speculation. I need my models and narratives.

Spoiler: Speculation

• Megane's magic is the only thing keeping her from grief-spiraling right now, and she knows it. This is why she's maintaining it constantly; the last time she let it drop was (apparently) when she went to fight the post office witch.
• Incidentally, given how nasty that one seemed, whatever her combat powers are either counter the post office witch's abilities or are just generally powerful, since the post office witch was an unknown while the glass witch was a fairly common spawn. Speculation at the time was that the post office witch would have left her in a bad way; more recent data suggests the post office witch a non-factor in Megane's witchout.
  
• This may mean the only way to get through to the real Ono Megane is to hit her with Kirika's anti-magic. Worth pointing out, though, that that's likely to cause a worse reaction than suddenly appearing in her room. Now not only can she not hide in her room, she can't even hide in her own head.

Maybe Kyubey installed... measures in our Soul Gem when it heard our Wish. Maybe to limit us, so we don't mess with his precious energy program.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that sounds like another possible thing the speculative incubator DRM could do. On the other hand, if they can build measures like that into soul gems, how do you explain Madokami? She apparently absorbs the soul gems of other magical girls for that whole save them from witching/ascension to Madohalla thing she does.

"To the south there's another magical girl. She's not as good as Mami but I'd put good odds between her and almost anyone else. She prefers living and hunting alone. She would've died before I got to meet her if not for a magical girl she'd met a few days before. They work together now."

"To the north is another girl, an illusionist like you, who used to like to work alone. I'm not sure of the exact timetable but she spent a good while having been cut in half because of that. She doesn't work alone anymore."

Click to shrink...

Discussing Kyoko and Masami in this way when I don't think we've told Mami those stories yet (or at least those details) could be a problem, too. Kyoko we might have... but Masami I know we left vague because Mami hadn't been lichbombed yet (that encounter was why we felt we needed to lichbomb her); I'm fairly certain we never went back and explained just how bad Masami's injuries had been.

 

[Onmur]

Yeah, that sounds like another possible thing the speculative incubator DRM could do. On the other hand, if they can build measures like that into soul gems, how do you explain Madokami? She apparently absorbs the soul gems of other magical girls for that whole save them from witching/ascension to Madohalla thing she does.

Click to shrink...

I'd say the Incubators didn't put measures in Soul Gems to prevent Goddesses from taking them.

 

[Kinematics]

Discussing Kyoko and Masami in this way when I don't think we've told Mami those stories yet (or at least those details) could be a problem, too. Kyoko we might have... but Masami I know we left vague because Mami hadn't been lichbombed yet (that encounter was why we felt we needed to lichbomb her); I'm fairly certain we never went back and explained just how bad Masami's injuries had been.

Click to shrink...

Also made me remember: She stopped working with others (namely Mami) when she was injured, so it might not be the best example.

 

[CompassJimbo]

Five years later Yokosuka became the birthplace of modern (or at least industrial) Japan. And Mitakihara is, IIRC, doing the rust belt thing. Can you say institutional inadequacy and/or failure?

Click to shrink...

And yet the city's recovering far better than my Cleveland. It's modern, shiny, wealthy, and the roads are in decent condition.

 

[Muramasa]

Well, there is a certain amount of 'sinking arbitrary amounts of time and effort' into helping Magical Girls with their mundane problems, that we need to do. After all, megucable girls are most often those already burdened with problems they can't deal with.

The megucas we can help with only our Grief Cleansing are the ones that are already strong enough to survive the system as it is, and we still are trying to come up with ways to help them further (The Best Exotic Mami Gold Hotel, or something).


What if Mami says yes? Should the vote reflect that option? We should let her know our thoughts before we give her the floor.

Click to shrink...

I'm... not really sure what we can say to her here that would make the outcome any different. I'm open to suggestions but I won't have time to modify the vote for a while yet.

 

[cmwatford]

we've screwed up the social so well

Click to shrink...

You keep saying this but I don't see it. Can you show me?

I dunno how we can give multiple girls the Mami treatment considering we can only really sleep in one bed at a time.
...unless they come over to Mami's house...?

Click to shrink...

Meguca Harem Go?

 

[Torgamous]

Also made me remember: She stopped working with others (namely Mami) when she was injured, so it might not be the best example.

Click to shrink...

I figured she mostly worked on her own before she was injured and just stopped keeping in touch with Mami when she was injured. She certainly wasn't working with Mami at the time she was injured or her injuries wouldn't be such a surprise to Mami.

 

[Kinematics]

I figured she mostly worked on her own before she was injured and just stopped keeping in touch with Mami when she was injured. She certainly wasn't working with Mami at the time she was injured or her injuries wouldn't be such a surprise to Mami.

Click to shrink...

Well, it was more the part of, "You need help, you ask for help, you get help" that didn't happen, there. Masami was injured, and rather than ask Mami for help (as might be implied from the speech), she hid away from the world.

 

[Onmur]

I'm... not really sure what we can say to her here that would make the outcome any different. I'm open to suggestions but I won't have time to modify the vote for a while yet.

Click to shrink...

I'm sure I had something a couple hours ago. It's gone now. Probably should have wrote it down.

Mmm... Considering we've been the ones to contact Ono telepathically once and again, will she take offense at us sending Mami in front for our talk? It's like we're hiding behind her, or something.

 

[Muramasa]

I'm sure I had something a couple hours ago. It's gone now. Probably should have wrote it down.

Mmm... Considering we've been the ones to contact Ono telepathically once and again, will she take offense at us sending Mami in front for our talk? It's like we're hiding behind her, or something.

Click to shrink...

Not really. Sometimes people do need someone to help convey their thoughts for them. It's perfectly normal.

 

[angelofwhim]

[jk] looks like a job for Mikimom!

Well, .... RIP grief seed person, if we ever learn to get back MGs from grief seeds, we lost you forever.

 

[Onmur]

[jk] looks like a job for Mikimom!

Well, .... RIP grief seed person, if we ever learn to get back MGs from grief seeds, we lost you forever.

Click to shrink...

Gwen.