Firnagzen said:
Homura's eyes flick towards you, and then away. Not it.
Smart girl.


Things to bring up?

-Possibility of dropping a Grief Seed and leaving: Would Ono willingly ignore our break in? This would give her some time to calm down, maybe tomorrow will be a better day.

-Ono's... everything make it seem she's gonna break no matter what we do. Should we make sure it happens on our own terms, while we're there to cleanse her? I know, ironically same logic as with Mami, but guilt aside, Mami's alive. I think this option would be one about just dropping timestop and having a chat right now, probably while insolently sitting on her bed while reading through her things, too...

-Could we give Ono an Emptied Seed? That would take care of her excessive magic usage.

-Leaving and knocking/telepathing option: Give Ono the illusion we haven't broke in, so she can decide to meet us outside. It's kind of a half measure; she'll probably still act bitchy, but she also probably won't break as much.

I don't suppose offering to form a study group would go over well with Ono or Mami.
We could try and help her. Put it down as Magical Girls needing help in order to keep up with their studies, due to their new, mandatory, and dangerous activities.
 
Yeah, getting annoyed that she disposed of the seed is ridiculous.


She didn't know any better. She had no reason to believe the seed was anything other than a gift, to be used in the normal manner for a grief seed. We can't criticize her for what she didn't know. That goes for her wish too, or her unwillingness to jump headfirst into a Witch fight, or even her reluctance to take our offered assistance. How is she supposed to know?

Being angry at her for something beyond her is incredibly unjustified. Hell, I can't even really be mad that she tried to keep her magical girl acquaintances and personal life separate. Again, she doesn't know, and absent specific information it's a completely reasonable line of thought.
 
I don't think we should force people to deal with us, much less that we have the time and ability to force her to do so. We've gone beyond reasonable effort in an attempt to get to her - at this point leaving a grief seed wrapped in Meguca 101 instructions in an envelope addressed to her and letting her come to her own conclusions is probably lower on the stress levels for everyone involved.
 
The seed thing makes some sense because we offered to refresh it earlier, so showing up without one would've appeared wasteful I suppose.
 
Social too OP pls nerf.

People are hard. They're aren't problems that we can just solve with a little effort. People have complex needs and issues that we could never hope to resolve completely. We can help Megane if we really want to but it's going to take time and effort and lot of both. Are we going to do this for every meguca we run into that needs help? Considering Coobs typical selection criteria girls like her are probably more common than not. Do we have the resources to keep doing this over and over again?
 
Social too OP pls nerf.

People are hard. They're aren't problems that we can just solve with a little effort. People have complex needs and issues that we could never hope to resolve completely. We can help Megane if we really want to but it's going to take time and effort and lot of both. Are we going to do this for every meguca we run into that needs help? Considering Coobs typical selection criteria girls like her are probably more common than not. Do we have the resources to keep doing this over and over again?
We need to build some sort of support network. There should be other people new megucas can turn to, besides Sabrina.
 
Yeah, getting annoyed that she disposed of the seed is ridiculous.


She didn't know any better. She had no reason to believe the seed was anything other than a gift, to be used in the normal manner for a grief seed. We can't criticize her for what she didn't know.
We totally can criticize her if we told her that we can refresh seeds and she threw it away anyway.

Unfortunately upon rereading it seems we did not tell her that. Pretty significant oversight, but what's done is done.
 
Question: Are Ono's grades the cause of her depression, or is her depression the cause of the bad grades?

So Homu sealed all of Madoka's divine power in a nice Chess Piece, leaving a sliver to be her waifu?

And Incubators absorb all the negative energy from soul Gems?

Are there...any downsides to this? Besides being morally horrible to do to a person?
Part of the deal with Rebellion's ending is that it was written intentionally open-ended and vague with the intention that different people would see the ending differently. So obviously it's hard to agree on what it means. Personally, I saw it as Homura's attempt to solve two problems: Madoka's existence outside of time and Kyuubey's interference with humanity. She did come up with a solution, but her solution required stealing a bit of power from the Law of Cycles, and that resulted in quite a bit of instability (as evidenced by weird things going on in the world and familiars hanging around). This instability means that Homura's solution is only a temporary measure and things will ultimately start falling apart, thus risking the destruction of the Law of Cycles and/or the universe.

Randomly browsing through the beginning...

What do you think the first [REDACTED] could mean? Heck, what is it even, gramatically? Another immense thing we have, or what?
"Responsibility" perhaps? If we were created as a result of Madoka's wish to "fix everything", then it is our duty to carry out that directive.

Yeah, getting annoyed that she disposed of the seed is ridiculous.

She didn't know any better. She had no reason to believe the seed was anything other than a gift, to be used in the normal manner for a grief seed. We can't criticize her for what she didn't know. That goes for her wish too, or her unwillingness to jump headfirst into a Witch fight, or even her reluctance to take our offered assistance. How is she supposed to know?

Being angry at her for something beyond her is incredibly unjustified. Hell, I can't even really be mad that she tried to keep her magical girl acquaintances and personal life separate. Again, she doesn't know, and absent specific information it's a completely reasonable line of thought.
The annoyance comes from the fact that we clearly demonstrated our ability to cleanse seeds and we indicated that she was supposed to keep the seed and that we would cleanse it as needed. We weren't quite as clear as we could have been, but annoyance is definitely justified.

We totally can criticize her if we told her that we can refresh seeds and she threw it away anyway.

Unfortunately upon rereading it seems we did not tell her that. Pretty significant oversight, but what's done is done.
We didn't just tell her, we showed her:
"Additionally," you say, reaching into your pocket and pulling out Gwen's Grief Seed. You check it mentally -seems like it was used once?- and absently wipe it clean with an effort of will, Grief billowing away. Not too much in there, so that's fine.

Megane watches the process curiously, only flinching slightly at the weak sensation of Witch given off by the Grief. Her brow furrows as you hold the Grief Seed out to her.

"You may have this," you say. "Also... I can cleanse Soul Gems. I don't ask anything for it, I simply offer the service because I have the ability to, and I want to help as many magical girls as I can."
 
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Question: Are Ono's grades the cause of her depression, or is her depression the cause of the bad grades?


Part of the deal with Rebellion's ending is that it was written intentionally open-ended and vague with the intention that different people would see the ending differently.
I thought it was written intentionally open-ended because the original ending would prevent any continuation.
 
Yeah, getting annoyed that she disposed of the seed is ridiculous.


She didn't know any better. She had no reason to believe the seed was anything other than a gift, to be used in the normal manner for a grief seed. We can't criticize her for what she didn't know. That goes for her wish too, or her unwillingness to jump headfirst into a Witch fight, or even her reluctance to take our offered assistance. How is she supposed to know?

Being angry at her for something beyond her is incredibly unjustified. Hell, I can't even really be mad that she tried to keep her magical girl acquaintances and personal life separate. Again, she doesn't know, and absent specific information it's a completely reasonable line of thought.
At risk of repeating what's already been said quite a few times, we should not only let Gwen go, we should emphasize how much more important it is that she should always have a Seed, than the waste of a Seed.

Not sure how. We could tell her off for wasting a Seed, but really tear into her for not calling us and risking her life over this. That's if we don't think that'll break her/put her off listening to us forever.
 
At risk of repeating what's already been said quite a few times, we should not only let Gwen go, we should emphasize how much more important it is that she should always have a Seed, than the waste of a Seed.

Not sure how. We could tell her off for wasting a Seed, but really tear into her for not calling us and risking her life over this. That's if we don't think that'll break her/put her off listening to us forever.
If Ono's behavior remains the same, then giving her a seed would result in her disposing of it again, which is unconscionable. Something needs to change before we could consider giving her a seed. That might be as simple as explaining clearly that she should not give the seed to Kyuubey under any circumstances. And then getting a promise from her that she will keep it safe.
 
Is it steamrolling time yet?

Mami's chances of getting through to Ono aren't that good either, as she points out.

I'm feeling the 'kicking her down' option becoming more and more appealing, if only because it might achieve something. Even if the cons might turn larger than the pros.

Else I would like to try dropping a Seed and leaving, just on the off chance Ono's feeling less 'bitchy' tomorrow. Maybe the guilt from wasting the Seed will help... if we catch her before she commits suicide by Witch.

If Ono's behavior remains the same, then giving her a seed would result in her disposing of it again, which is unconscionable. Something needs to change before we could consider giving her a seed. That might be as simple as explaining clearly that she should not give the seed to Kyuubey under any circumstances. And then getting a promise from her that she will keep it safe.
Can we trust a promise we get from her right now? Or, even if we can, wouldn't extracting it hurt our chances with her in the future?
 
Can we trust a promise we get from her right now? Or, even if we can, wouldn't extracting it hurt our chances with her in the future?

Honestly, do we care?
Maybe it's just me, but at present, a close ongoing relationship with Ono seems about as appealing as spending a lazy afternoon feeding our appendages through a meatgrinder. Do we need to turn all her problems into our problems, or can we get away with providing the tools to keep her from getting herself killed?
 
She has no idea why she should listen to us with regards to giving Kyubey seeds. So what if we can refresh them? If she prefers not to deal with us, why shouldn't she get more uses out of a seed instead of calling us, and then dispose of it with Kyubey? She doesn't know about the witch bombs and us being so mad about her giving Kyubey a seed just makes us seem insanely stingy. We gave her the seed. I don't believe we said it was a loan or anything, right? We gave it to her, she used it for its intended purpose, there's nothing wrong with that from her point of view, and us getting upset about it would just worsen our image.
 
She has no idea why she should listen to us with regards to giving Kyubey seeds. So what if we can refresh them? If she prefers not to deal with us, why shouldn't she get more uses out of a seed instead of calling us, and then dispose of it with Kyubey? She doesn't know about the witch bombs and us being so mad about her giving Kyubey a seed just makes us seem insanely stingy. We gave her the seed. I don't believe we said it was a loan or anything, right? We gave it to her, she used it for its intended purpose, there's nothing wrong with that from her point of view, and us getting upset about it would just worsen our image.
What's the witchbomb got to do with it? Acquiring seeds is inherently dangerous, time-consuming and deeply unpleasant. If she's ever hunted a witch, she knows this.
 
Starting to think we should just flat out tell her that her gem is her soul. Don't see how else to get her to take us seriously without just suddenly showing up.
 
We've gone beyond reasonable effort in an attempt to get to her
Seriously? "Beyond reasonable effort" is Mami (and people aren't calling for us to ditch Mami and let her die). We haven't even reached "reasonable effort" yet.

Are we going to do this for every meguca we run into that needs help?
Amusingly, that actually was the intent for a while — when people were still considering the idea of Sabrina saving the world in the abstract, rather than actually having to deal with people's problems. Now, it's just too much trouble.


In any case, connection to school issues is confirmed. Since she's doing poorly even now, either the wish didn't help with that, or these grades are the result of when she turned her power off in order to slow down the grief buildup. Most likely the former, since Homura commented on her not being very good when looking over the papers on her desk.

I'm reminded that we had to deal with another pair of individuals who had to have their magic active 100% of the time: Masami and Hiroko. Probably a somewhat lesser drain, given that they held out for several months — though if "holding your entire body together with telekinesis" is a lesser drain, whatever Ono is doing is just crazy (or she's just that weak). However they were also rather hostile to Sabrina — or at least, Masami was; only Hiroko's assistance really smoothed things over. We don't have a handholding assistant in the matter, this time.

At the moment we're basically at exactly the same point as before the update, but with confirmation of my own speculation regarding the connection to school issues. Can't use the approach I suggested anymore, though, since it's no longer Sabrina putting together clues, it's just reading what was laid out in front of her in the snooping.

We can still approach directly or indirectly; we can still use timestop or not; privacy question is moot; and there's the ever-present question of how to actually broach the discussion.

With the amount of anger at Ono permeating the thread, I don't know that I'd trust Sabrina to do a decent job of talking to her. It's possible, but it's also very easy for it to start going very badly. Body language and unspoken disdain (implicit effects from the state of the thread, and thus not easily overruled by a vote) could easily undermine any spoken words.

Any vote will have to compensate for her instinctive behavior, then.
 
She has no idea why she should listen to us with regards to giving Kyubey seeds. So what if we can refresh them?
Because if she throws it away she need another when that other could have gone to someone else if she'd kept it like she was supposed to. Until we can scale up our cleansings every seed is precious, and if someone's soul goes dark due to lack of seeds it will be her fault for wanting to keep up appearances more than conserving a scarce resource.

Look, no witchbomb.
 
Well, I can't speak for anyone else but I'm 100% willing to give everyone the Mami treatment if that's what it takes to be Heroic Good Paragon Modo System-Breaking Messiah (tm).

It's probably not necessary though, but Ono is clearly a test in what we're willing to put up with. But the fact of the matter is that this is more difficult than it has to be because of OUR negligence, and I feel we're morally obligated to handle this.
 
Well, I can't speak for anyone else but I'm 100% willing to give everyone the Mami treatment if that's what it takes to be Heroic Good Paragon Modo System-Breaking Messiah (tm).
No, we can't do that. We can take on the World's problems, but that's done through constructing a support network that's bigger than ourselves. Not by tackling every problem personally.

Right now, it looks like we need to do everything personally because we only have ourselves to rely on. But just like we're not dealing with Akiko's mental issues ourselves, we shouldn't try to do everything ourselves.

We need time.

EDIT: Next time we visit Oriko, hopefully tomorrow, we should create an 'Oriko watch', have her check on a certain amount of megucas every night and morning.

It's probably not necessary though, but Ono is clearly a test in what we're willing to put up with. But the fact of the matter is that this is more difficult than it has to be because of OUR negligence, and I feel we're morally obligated to handle this.
It's actually far less difficult than it has to be due to our actions, when you consider the normal cut-throat nature of the meguca World, and the fact that Ono would already be dead if not for Sabrina.
 
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At risk of repeating what's already been said quite a few times, we should not only let Gwen go, we should emphasize how much more important it is that she should always have a Seed, than the waste of a Seed.

Not sure how. We could tell her off for wasting a Seed, but really tear into her for not calling us and risking her life over this. That's if we don't think that'll break her/put her off listening to us forever.
Tearing into her will not work. It will be a spectacular failure of her not listening to us and poisoning further attempts at communication. That doesn't mean we can't be direct and clear, but any facts we tell her must be done with gravitas.


E: I seriously doubt she will react well to scolding. In fact, she'll probably react worse than your average.
 
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[X] Are you sure, Mami? If you're not up to it, I'll do it.
[X] If Mami's up to it, nod. Suggest perhaps that we shouldn't just appear in her room.
[X] If Mami's not up to it, suggest leaving the apartment. Re lock all doors.
[X] Fly to Megane's window. Grief carpet. Maintain some distance. End timestop.
[X] Telepathy Megane:
-[x] Your magic expenditures are a severe problem. If we don't address it tonight, it will kill you.
-[x] Tell her to look out the window.
-[x] It is this important Miss Ono. Please come out.
 
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[X] Are you sure, Mami? If you're not up to it, I'll do it.
[X] If Mami's up to it, nod. Suggest perhaps that we shouldn't just appear in her room.
[X] If Mami's not up to it, suggest leaving the apartment. Re lock all doors.
[X] Fly to Megane's window. Grief carpet. Maintain some distance.
[X] Telepathy Megane:
-[x] Your magic expenditures are a severe problem. If we don't address it tonight, it will kill you.
-[x] Tell her to look out the window.
-[x] It is this important Miss Ono. Please come out.

Edit: I agree with Onmur that will is better than can in this case.
 
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