Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[x] I believe she used up the grief seed I gave her. I don't sense it.
[x] See if you can get a better look at those papers she's holding. Be careful. Don't accidentally pull Megane into the timestop.
[x] If nothing in those papers demands your immediate attention, look around the room. See if you can find any other clues.
-[x] Look around the apartment.
[x] Discuss findings with Mami and Homura.
No. of votes: 2
Lordsservent, chocolote12

[x] Muramasa
No. of votes: 3
Crasian01, EtchedSteel, DracoDracul

[X] She used up the Grief Seed. Explains why she didn't even want to think about going hunting with us... Hopefully didn't mean to go hunt alone in order to show up with a Grief Seed tomorrow.
[X] Check if there's more pieces of paper scattered around, or in the trash. If there are, check in case they're suicide notes, or something similarly bad.
[X] If you don't find anything too bad, leave everything like it was, re-lock the doors and go stand outside her window, standing on a flying carpet. Ask Homura to end the timestop and knock on Ono's window. We're gonna have that talk, so she's got two minutes to either come outside or invite us in.
-[X] If there's no window for this, use telepathy instead: If she doesn't come outside, we're knocking and speaking with whoever we need to in order to talk with her.
No. of votes: 3
Onmur, Muramasa, Boobah

[x] Meta: Adjust speech as needed. Answer standard questions.
[x] Do a quick scan of the room (books on shelves, decorations, etc), but do not poke into her papers or personal effects.
[x] I don't sense the grief seed I gave her.
[x] To Mami Homura: What do you think? In timestop or not? I'd prefer not, but her mother is in the other room...
-[x] If split, go with non-timestop.
[x] Hi, Ono! Just got here. We need to talk.
[x] Warn her against making too much noise, since her mother is in the next room.
[x] If she panics, stay serious to continue the talk. If she starts a fight, have Mami subdue her. If she tries to ignore us, continue the talk seriously, but try to draw her out.
[x] Find a place to sit. Accept Mami-cushions, but no grief chairs. Sitting on the floor is fine.
[x] So, the schoolwork is getting to you? Gesture at the papers she's holding.
-[x] Assure her we did not look at the papers
--[x] If verbally accused of such (ie: confirmation that the guess was correct): Just putting a bunch of things together. Mami told me there was a bit of a competition between Mitakihara and Yokosuka. Saw the school on the way over; has the same overly-ostentatious architecture as Mitakihara. Easy to guess that they're always trying to one-up each other. I've also helped Mami with her schoolwork, so I'm well aware of how hard they're pushing on the scholastic side, too. With that much pressure to succeed, well... It'd get pretty rough if you're not always at the top.
[x] But the real problem here is the grief you've been accumulating.
[x] I don't sense the grief seed I gave you yesterday, which means you've had to use it a couple of times, and probably gave it to Kyuubey.
[x] And your soul gem is already about a quarter full, again.
[x] The average magical girl uses about 1 grief seed per week, give or take. Someone with high efficiency skills can stretch it out to one seed every couple weeks.
[x] You're going through about one seed per day. That's not sustainable.
[x] There are a lot of reasons for accumulating grief far faster than normal. I'd only be guessing if I were to try to figure this out myself.
[x] No matter what the problem is, though, I want to help you fix it. So we're going to stay here and talk about it til we can work something out.
-[x] And if you say, You can't fix my problem., then you just don't know how persistent I can be about these things.
-[x] However... Maybe I should let Mami do most the talking, so I don't put my foot in my mouth too much.
No. of votes: 1
Kinematics

[X] Tell Mami and Homura that she doesn't have the grief seed you gave her.
[X] Take a brief look around. Look for things that would give a better insight into her. Check for any other papers and notes. We should make sure to leave everything exactly as it was, though.
[X] Close and lock all the doors that were locked. Use magic and ask for help if necessary. Exit the apartment. Get up to the window of her room on top of the grief carpet.
[X] Ask your friends to chime into the conversation if things start getting ugly. She'll likely be incredibly upset.
-[X] Ask Homura to turn off timestop.
[X] Tap on the window to get her attention. Telepath and greet her. Be firm and resolved. Don't give her any reason to doubt your words. In case there is no window, make it clear that you are right outside.
-[X] Remind her that like you said before, this is rather important. So you will meet with her now. Make it abundantly clear that you aren't leaving until we talk, especially since she doesn't have any grief seeds. It isn't safe to not have one.
-[X] Now will she come out or invite you in, or should you just start knocking on front door and speak with whoever you to need to in order to talk with her? Giver her a bit to decide, but one way or another, you're seeing her now.
No. of votes: 1
Agent Whiskers
 
Changing vote again.

[x] Agent Whiskers


Man I'm just flipflopping all over the place... Or maybe not? Onmur and Whiskers votes aren't all that different...
 
"Has anybody seen hascal? The trouble he can get into when left alone boggles the mind. Oh, hello Sabrina, I see you are being your usual self today, have you been spreading my madness as I ask, your buddy's giving you instructions seem to be doing a fine enough job on their own. If they stop, then I pull out their intestines and turn them into cheese knots, yes that will be your punishment for failing me. So keep doing what yer doin', and remember, I am always watching you!! Ta-ta!!"-Sheogorath.
A ham-fisted attempt at emulating the Lord of Madness. I imagine that he'd be rather cheesed with your portrayal of him. Indeed, he'd probably roast you quite thoroughly for such an affront!

[X] Agent Whiskers
 
The puns, they burn!! But, did I do okay? The silly was strong in that one.
I think that I answered your question before you even asked it, good sir.
A ham-fisted attempt at emulating the Lord of Madness. I imagine that he'd be rather cheesed with your portrayal of him. Indeed, he'd probably roast you quite thoroughly for such an affront!

[X] Agent Whiskers

But, without the jocularity, yeah, it was kind of forced. :/
 
Finally, I am properly caught up to reading the thread in full instead of just skimming.

This situation sure is a thing, huh? Ugh, I've been staring at the screen for twenty minutes over an hour now trying to find the words to explain how difficult this is going to be.



I guess, I've noticed a lot of frustration with Megane's attitude and not a lot of exploration as to what she's actually thinking. If we want to escape this situation without breaking someone else too badly, we are going to have to do far better at understanding Megane herself.


So let's start with the "Why is Megane such a bitch?" question.

Uh, people, she's not... God, how do I put this...
Megane's hostility is a defense mechanism. Why do you think she doesn't want her new acquaintances over to her slightly run-down apartment where she's locked herself in her room while her parental figure gets drunk? The method she chose is to be standoffish as hell, but at its core she is very much saying "don't come here, I don't want you to see this". You can see her annoyance at being passed up this afternoon in a similar light. We very much introduced ourselves to her as equals, and then we brushed her off without so much as ten minutes notice. Yeah, there's a fair component of stubborn lashing out in her responses, but she's taken it as a serious loss of face or rather revealing that she never really had much equality with us in the first place.

I mean, look at everything together. Appearance powers. Glass witch. Dissatisfaction with some (unknown) aspect of her life. I want to avoid making specific guesses, but the demeanor she tried to project to us is very deliberate and a way of using her MG abilities to avoid the parts of her life she doesn't like.

Or to put it another way, up until this afternoon, what was your impression of Megane: spoilt princess with an frosty attitude problem, or run-down apartment with a drunk mom?

So what happens if we show up at this point and start poking around? She is going to feel completely and utterly humiliated.

I have to emphasize, we don't have to do anything except show up and we ruin the one thing she's clinging to right now. So if we give her an ultimatum like "let me in or I'll get in however I can", I think we're likely to get superfrosty Megane on the outside, telling us to fuck off and closing the shades or something, but internally she's curled up on the bed going "please go away go away go away go away go away go away go away".


The annoying part is there isn't any way to enter this situation without basically breaking her in the process, but I can't help but think we're picking an especially devastating method. Or perhaps, we aren't acknowledging that by merely showing up we've already escalated beyond our ability to make this a normal conversation about MG stuff.
 
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we'll at least we weren't going to use that seed for research and there are a lot more witches out there.

also i'm not sure if its been discussed before but how are we going to evacuate the city when wally night comes barging in? Or are we going to take the battle to her?
 
Appropriating the existing stall tactic bandwagon for now, because I don't approve of anything we have in terms of interactions with Ono.

[x] I believe she used up the grief seed I gave her. I don't sense it.
[x] See if you can get a better look at those papers she's holding. Be careful. Don't accidentally pull Megane into the timestop.
[x] If nothing in those papers demands your immediate attention, look around the room. See if you can find any other clues.
-[x] Look around the apartment.
[x] Discuss findings with Mami and Homura.
 
Or to put it another way, up until this afternoon, what was your impression of Megane: spoilt princess with an frosty attitude problem, or run-down apartment with a drunk mom?
The latter? I mean, I didn't call the drunk mom specifically but none of this is at all surprising. Her wish was clearly about social climbing in a hostile environment, so I figured bullying at school and didn't put much thought into the details of her home life, but I would've been shocked if she was actually upper-class and surprised if she was middle.
 
The latter? I mean, I didn't call the drunk mom specifically but none of this is at all surprising. Her wish was clearly about social climbing in a hostile environment, so I figured bullying at school and didn't put much thought into the details of her home life, but I would've been shocked if she was actually upper-class and surprised if she was middle.

Perhaps not the best phrasing, more what was your impression of what she wanted to portray?
 
The latter? I mean, I didn't call the drunk mom specifically but none of this is at all surprising. Her wish was clearly about social climbing in a hostile environment, so I figured bullying at school and didn't put much thought into the details of her home life, but I would've been shocked if she was actually upper-class and surprised if she was middle.
*Raises Hand* I thought that she was rich...
 
???I know somebody who could help, all you have to do is read a very special book, in a very special place.
 
Finally, I am properly caught up to reading the thread in full instead of just skimming.

This situation sure is a thing, huh? Ugh, I've been staring at the screen for twenty minutes over an hour now trying to find the words to explain how difficult this is going to be.



I guess, I've noticed a lot of frustration with Megane's attitude and not a lot of exploration as to what she's actually thinking. If we want to escape this situation without breaking someone else too badly, we are going to have to do far better at understanding Megane herself.


So let's start with the "Why is Megane such a bitch?" question.

Uh, people, she's not... God, how do I put this...
Megane's hostility is a defense mechanism. Why do you think she doesn't want her new acquaintances over to her slightly run-downapartment where she's locked herself in her room while her parental figure gets drunk? The method she chose is to be standoffish as hell, but at its core she is very much saying "don't come here, I don't want you to see this". You can see her annoyance at being passed up this afternoon in a similar light. We very much introduced ourselves to her as equals, and then we brushed her off without so much as ten minutes notice. Yeah, there's a fair component of stubborn lashing out in her responses, but she's taken it as a serious loss of face or rather revealing that she never really had much equality with us in the first place.

I mean, look at everything together. Appearance powers. Glass witch. Dissatisfaction with some (unknown) aspect of her life. I want to avoid making specific guesses, but the demeanor she tried to project to us is very deliberate and a way of using her MG abilities to avoid the parts of her life she doesn't like.

Or to put it another way, up until this afternoon, what was your impression of Megane: spoilt princess with an frosty attitude problem, or run-down apartment with a drunk mom?

So what happens if we show up at this point and start poking around? She is going to feel completely and utterly humiliated.

I have to emphasize, we don't have to do anything except show up and we ruin the one thing she's clinging to right now. So if we give her an ultimatum like "let me in or I'll get in however I can", I think we're likely to get superfrosty Megane on the outside, telling us to fuck off and closing the shades or something, but internally she's curled up on the bed going "please go away go away go away go away go away go away go away".


The annoying part is there isn't any way to enter this situation without basically breaking her in the process, but I can't help but think we're picking an especially devastating method. Or perhaps, we aren't acknowledging that by merely showing up we've already escalated beyond our ability to make this a normal conversation about MG stuff.

Do you have some kind of alternative besides stalling? Seriously, I'd really want to get through to her without breaking her but I'm kind of at a loss here.
 
*Raises Hand* I thought that she was rich...
Why in Madoka's name did you think that?
Perhaps not the best phrasing, more what was your impression of what she wanted to portray?
Ah. Right.

I would be all for letting her pretend to be whatever she likes, but allowing her to continue her facade is going to get her killed. She's already thrown away a perfectly good soul gem in order to keep from asking us to empty it. If you'd like a politer way to get her to give up on the evil queen act then figure out a way to get some solidarity or something. Between Mami and the neighboring magical girls all being orphans, us and the neighboring magical girls all being squatters, and whatever the fuck's going on with Homura, Ono has the best home life of the bunch unless her mom is actually abusive instead of just shameful.
 
Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[x] I believe she used up the grief seed I gave her. I don't sense it.
[x] See if you can get a better look at those papers she's holding. Be careful. Don't accidentally pull Megane into the timestop.
[x] If nothing in those papers demands your immediate attention, look around the room. See if you can find any other clues.
-[x] Look around the apartment.
[x] Discuss findings with Mami and Homura.
No. of votes: 2
Lordsservent, SynchronizedWritersBlock

[x] Muramasa
No. of votes: 3
Crasian01, EtchedSteel, DracoDracul

[X] She used up the Grief Seed. Explains why she didn't even want to think about going hunting with us... Hopefully didn't mean to go hunt alone in order to show up with a Grief Seed tomorrow.
[X] Check if there's more pieces of paper scattered around, or in the trash. If there are, check in case they're suicide notes, or something similarly bad.
[X] If you don't find anything too bad, leave everything like it was, re-lock the doors and go stand outside her window, standing on a flying carpet. Ask Homura to end the timestop and knock on Ono's window. We're gonna have that talk, so she's got two minutes to either come outside or invite us in.
-[X] If there's no window for this, use telepathy instead: If she doesn't come outside, we're knocking and speaking with whoever we need to in order to talk with her.
No. of votes: 3
Onmur, Boobah, cmwatford

[x] Meta: Adjust speech as needed. Answer standard questions.
[x] Do a quick scan of the room (books on shelves, decorations, etc), but do not poke into her papers or personal effects.
[x] I don't sense the grief seed I gave her.
[x] To Mami Homura: What do you think? In timestop or not? I'd prefer not, but her mother is in the other room...
-[x] If split, go with non-timestop.
[x] Hi, Ono! Just got here. We need to talk.
[x] Warn her against making too much noise, since her mother is in the next room.
[x] If she panics, stay serious to continue the talk. If she starts a fight, have Mami subdue her. If she tries to ignore us, continue the talk seriously, but try to draw her out.
[x] Find a place to sit. Accept Mami-cushions, but no grief chairs. Sitting on the floor is fine.
[x] So, the schoolwork is getting to you? Gesture at the papers she's holding.
-[x] Assure her we did not look at the papers
--[x] If verbally accused of such (ie: confirmation that the guess was correct): Just putting a bunch of things together. Mami told me there was a bit of a competition between Mitakihara and Yokosuka. Saw the school on the way over; has the same overly-ostentatious architecture as Mitakihara. Easy to guess that they're always trying to one-up each other. I've also helped Mami with her schoolwork, so I'm well aware of how hard they're pushing on the scholastic side, too. With that much pressure to succeed, well... It'd get pretty rough if you're not always at the top.
[x] But the real problem here is the grief you've been accumulating.
[x] I don't sense the grief seed I gave you yesterday, which means you've had to use it a couple of times, and probably gave it to Kyuubey.
[x] And your soul gem is already about a quarter full, again.
[x] The average magical girl uses about 1 grief seed per week, give or take. Someone with high efficiency skills can stretch it out to one seed every couple weeks.
[x] You're going through about one seed per day. That's not sustainable.
[x] There are a lot of reasons for accumulating grief far faster than normal. I'd only be guessing if I were to try to figure this out myself.
[x] No matter what the problem is, though, I want to help you fix it. So we're going to stay here and talk about it til we can work something out.
-[x] And if you say, You can't fix my problem., then you just don't know how persistent I can be about these things.
-[x] However... Maybe I should let Mami do most the talking, so I don't put my foot in my mouth too much.
No. of votes: 1
Kinematics

[X] Tell Mami and Homura that she doesn't have the grief seed you gave her.
[X] Take a brief look around. Look for things that would give a better insight into her. Check for any other papers and notes. We should make sure to leave everything exactly as it was, though.
[X] Close and lock all the doors that were locked. Use magic and ask for help if necessary. Exit the apartment. Get up to the window of her room on top of the grief carpet.
[X] Ask your friends to chime into the conversation if things start getting ugly. She'll likely be incredibly upset.
-[X] Ask Homura to turn off timestop.
[X] Tap on the window to get her attention. Telepath and greet her. Be firm and resolved. Don't give her any reason to doubt your words. In case there is no window, make it clear that you are right outside.
-[X] Remind her that like you said before, this is rather important. So you will meet with her now. Make it abundantly clear that you aren't leaving until we talk, especially since she doesn't have any grief seeds. It isn't safe to not have one.
-[X] Now will she come out or invite you in, or should you just start knocking on front door and speak with whoever you to need to in order to talk with her? Giver her a bit to decide, but one way or another, you're seeing her now.
No. of votes: 5
Agent Whiskers, Muramasa, Gadjo, chocolote12, moonstne
 
*shrug* This is going to be bad no matter what we do.

Bottom line, Megane can recover from a damaged ego. We can't do anything if she dies.


I think you miss the point.

Firstly, the issues can't be simplified to "ego", because guess what self-worth is really important to a person and I think we've had enough struggles with other peoples' self-worth problems in this quest to acknowledge that. Here's an example of what happens if we aren't conscious of what we're doing:
- we give her an ultimatum to meet us
- she goes into panic mode internally, superbitch mode externally
- since we aren't going away, she meets us and gives us the minimum, and I mean the absolute minimum she can, to get us to go away
- that means that yes we do to speak about MG business, and she gives us the exact same attitude that we've gotten from her so far today, and we come out of it not really satisfied that she's acknowledged what we said or is taking us seriously, but hey at least we got to cleanse her gem. in the best case this doesn't involve any angry rants on our part
- we check Oriko and if things aren't in crisis tonight we'll be able to cleanse her again in the morning
- the possibility that she trusts us with matters sensitive to her (as in the actual core of her personal issues) disappears, because she associates us with an incredibly humiliating, negative experience


I am all for continuing our intervention, but in a way that explicitly acknowledges that we are going to have to have to break her as we do it. Or in other words, this is kind of like pulling Kyubey out from under Mami 2.0, but with a stranger. We can't be thinking that we can cleanse her, tell her that she'll die if her gem fills, get an agreement to meet again and be on our way. That won't be enough for this conversation.

Do you have some kind of alternative besides stalling? Seriously, I'd really want to get through to her without breaking her but I'm kind of at a loss here.

v0v

break her on purpose?



The only thought I have, which is definitely not vote-ready on my part, is that we've been the person annoying her all night. Mami or god forbid, Homura, might be able to throw her off if they show up in our stead. Mami in full sempai-mode might have the right combination of acknowledging-respect and not-Sabrina-ness to salvage tonight. Maybe. I think at this point it's too late, though.
 
*Groans*

:rolleyes::mad::rage:
This girl infuriates me...

I'm really sorry guys. I know it's a really crappy thing to do right now, but I'm gonna have to change. I have a rough glimmer of an idea on what to do but for now...

[x] I believe she used up the grief seed I gave her. I don't sense it.
[x] See if you can get a better look at those papers she's holding. Be careful. Don't accidentally pull Megane into the timestop.
[x] If nothing in those papers demands your immediate attention, look around the room. See if you can find any other clues.
-[x] Look around the apartment .
[x] Discuss findings with Mami and Homura.

@Muramasa, @Gadjo, @chocolote12, @moonstne.

Changing vote just to warn you.
 
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I think you miss the point.

Firstly, the issues can't be simplified to "ego", because guess what self-worth is really important to a person and I think we've had enough struggles with other peoples' self-worth problems in this quest to acknowledge that. Here's an example of what happens if we aren't conscious of what we're doing:
- we give her an ultimatum to meet us
- she goes into panic mode internally, superbitch mode externally
- since we aren't going away, she meets us and gives us the minimum, and I mean the absolute minimum she can, to get us to go away
- that means that yes we do to speak about MG business, and she gives us the exact same attitude that we've gotten from her so far today, and we come out of it not really satisfied that she's acknowledged what we said or is taking us seriously, but hey at least we got to cleanse her gem. in the best case this doesn't involve any angry rants on our part
- we check Oriko and if things aren't in crisis tonight we'll be able to cleanse her again in the morning
- the possibility that she trusts us with matters sensitive to her (as in the actual core of her personal issues) disappears, because she associates us with an incredibly humiliating, negative experience


I am all for continuing our intervention, but in a way that explicitly acknowledges that we are going to have to have to break her as we do it. Or in other words, this is kind of like pulling Kyubey out from under Mami 2.0, but with a stranger. We can't be thinking that we can cleanse her, tell her that she'll die if her gem fills, get an agreement to meet again and be on our way. That won't be enough for this conversation.



v0v

break her on purpose?



The only thought I have, which is definitely not vote-ready on my part, is that we've been the person annoying her all night. Mami or god forbid, Homura, might be able to throw her off if they show up in our stead. Mami in full sempai-mode might have the right combination of acknowledging-respect and not-Sabrina-ness to salvage tonight. Maybe. I think at this point it's too late, though.

Ego was the wrong word for it but yeah I got that point. It doesn't really change what we need to do here though.
 
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