Our ethics should boil down to 'hug Mami more' and 'Help everyone'. :p

Things aren't quite that simple. Hugs, good intentions, and trying to help everyone alone aren't quite enough.

I do wonder what would happen to the others though, if they ended up in Deldore's barrier, I do know that us witching out is a bad end, but it would be interesting to ponder the effects of our minds would have upon the witch.

I'd rather not know to be perfectly honest.:V

Although... I think I do recall Firnagzen saying that we would end up seeing our Witch one way or another. Whatever that means.

On another note, how much does Homura know about what happened between Mami and Kyoko, and the exact specifics and reasons behind Mami's issues? Maybe we should ask?
 
Things aren't quite that simple. Hugs, good intentions, and trying to help everyone alone aren't quite enough.



I'd rather not know to be perfectly honest.:V

Although... I think I do recall Firnagzen saying that we would end up seeing our Witch one way or another. Whatever that means.

On another note, how much does Homura know about what happened between Mami and Kyoko, and the exact specifics and reasons behind Mami's issues? Maybe we should ask?
I really hope this other way doesn't also lead to Deldore wreaking havoc on the world, thanks to a nasty trick pulled by feathers, unleashing it without us becoming a witch ourselves.
 
Is it bad that now I want to grow a clone just to see what happens?
If'n the clone is anything more than a biological one, we'd have two bodies, what with the whole "You are SV" thing Sabrina has going on in the background. If not, then we'd either have a sibling, in that we'd have a Sabrina who isn't SV, or a baby sibling, in that it's just a body with the mind of a few-weeks-old in it. Or we'd just get a corpse of ourselves, or maybe one of the above but without an actual soul, because apparently, according to Kyuubey, the soul is just a collection of neurons or something that we don't have anymore, what with their functionality being replaced by a shiny rock.

...If souls are nutrients, and animals are just big piles of moving nutrients that take nutrients from others, then does that mean that Witch Familiars are like starfish? They start off as tiny bits of the witch, and then they eat other souls (nutrients) to get bigger, until they're a normal sized Witch of their own. Maybe a familiar would require an investment of a bit of our soul in order to work... I think that that'd be a pretty good reason not to make one, but we should still try, just to find out more about them and if they actually work that way...
 
If'n the clone is anything more than a biological one, we'd have two bodies, what with the whole "You are SV" thing Sabrina has going on in the background. If not, then we'd either have a sibling, in that we'd have a Sabrina who isn't SV, or a baby sibling, in that it's just a body with the mind of a few-weeks-old in it. Or we'd just get a corpse of ourselves, or maybe one of the above but without an actual soul, because apparently, according to Kyuubey, the soul is just a collection of neurons or something that we don't have anymore, what with their functionality being replaced by a shiny rock.

...If souls are nutrients, and animals are just big piles of moving nutrients that take nutrients from others, then does that mean that Witch Familiars are like starfish? They start off as tiny bits of the witch, and then they eat other souls (nutrients) to get bigger, until they're a normal sized Witch of their own. Maybe a familiar would require an investment of a bit of our soul in order to work... I think that that'd be a pretty good reason not to make one, but we should still try, just to find out more about them and if they actually work that way...
Words of wisdom:

Cooby said:
 
@chocolate12: Regarding familiar discussion, took a spot to search my own theories on it. Bit more than I expected, due math discussions and quotes, but here you go:
I'm reminded of Gwen's familiars, and have a hypothesis: A familiar is not as much a singular materialistic being but automation of grief in a single task - and we have been half-creating them all along, with grief instruments.

@Famliars: Of course, grief automatons mixed with matter aka familiars are also a must, if only to think/react faster than Sabrina and increase reach.

Given the lack of strain from music...We could create grief simulacrum of Sabrina and tell said grief to behave like Sabrina (or even just puppet it, if we're not using it as anti-snipe measure). Not very useful given grief control being what makes Sabrina matter, granted.

If we infuse said grief automaton into pile of Sabrina grown from our pinky, I think we will create nigh-complete copy as self-familiar. With exponential growth, we could become law of the cycles.

Any sufficiently advanced decision-making tree is indistinguishable from AI; it's a core idea behind my familiar theories.

Oh yeah, and we do have familiars - our semi-independent music instruments! (Going by automata = familiar anyway)

I hoped to find single theory-filled post, but I think these communicate my stance of "fascinating, we should have one for combat" well enough.
 
I don't remember that (but I only started the Quest a couple months ago). Does anyone know where this is?
Are you remembering this, perhaps?
Incidentally, just for your edification -Dedolere is an ontological threat, thanks to the rather hilarious bootstrap process involved. Other beings in PMMM on the same weight class: Ultimate Kriemheld Gretchen, Madokami, Akuma Homura.

And protip; I won't bad end the Quest over something so trivial as experimenting on a Witch. Only if I manage to drive the thread to despair.

But if I do, I will have a considerable amount of fun writing said bad end.
I hope you'll post it as an Omake when we save everyone and get our Golden End. Even if we have to upend the universe for it.

Yeah, you'll see it, one way or another.

One way or another...
 
@Onmur: thanks.

Also, when I was looking at that quote, I found something else:
Clarification - there is virtually no excess Grief left on Hildegard. The core (I need a better term) is made of Grief given cohesion, and is slowly generating more, but you've already stripped it down to the barest of bones.
When we stripped the excess grief from Hildegarde's "core", she was able to continue generating grief (albeit rather slowly). But after we defeated her completely and turned the core into a grief seed, and later stripped the excess grief from seed, it did not continue to generate grief.

Interesting.
 
@Onmur: thanks.

Also, when I was looking at that quote, I found something else:

When we stripped the excess grief from Hildegarde's "core", she was able to continue generating grief (albeit rather slowly). But after we defeated her completely and turned the core into a grief seed, and later stripped the excess grief from seed, it did not continue to generate grief.

Interesting.
Yeah... I'm pretty convinced that the 'Clear' Seeds aren't functionally 'witch' seeds anymore. Especially with how they DISCHARGE Grief which is discharged into them into OTHER grief seeds when they touch them.

... Just like a Soul Gem would.
 
@Onmur: thanks.

Also, when I was looking at that quote, I found something else:

When we stripped the excess grief from Hildegarde's "core", she was able to continue generating grief (albeit rather slowly). But after we defeated her completely and turned the core into a grief seed, and later stripped the excess grief from seed, it did not continue to generate grief.

Interesting.
Firnagzen said:
The core (I need a better term)
We never did get a better term for it. Heart/Soul/Spirit/Individuality/Essence/Ego/Mind/Principle/Psyche?
 
would at this point Hildeguard rate being called a Soul Seed since she is starting to regain a luster? That's what I've been calling her in my head since that was revealed.
 
would at this point Hildeguard rate being called a Soul Seed since she is starting to regain a luster? That's what I've been calling her in my head since that was revealed.
Hm. Maybe something similar, but different? Something that could scan a Soul Seed or Grief Gem -you mean Soul Gem and Grief Seed- and displays the body? It'd be something useful, at any rate, and still involve the analysis.
We must all do our part in avoiding these slips.

... Has Hildegarde's status changed recently? She's just a Seed without grief inside, right? It absorbs grief from gives grief to fuller seeds, but Aurora did the same when we tried emptying it, I think.
 
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We must all do our part in avoiding these slips.

... Has Hildegarde's status changed recently? She's just a Seed without grief inside, right? It absorbs grief from fuller seeds, but Aurora did the same when we tried emptying it, I think.

Actually didn't it give up grief TO other seeds?

And only absorbs from Soul Gems?



I rather want to test the 'Body' idea... though we'd have to give them a body that they'd identify as their own and connect to.
 
Actually didn't it give up grief TO other seeds?

And only absorbs from Soul Gems?
That. I got confused.

It's been so long since we tried anything with Grief Seeds...

I rather want to test the 'Body' idea... though we'd have to give them a body that they'd identify as their own and connect to.
I think meguca can change bodies with other meguca. Not sure where I've read that, though. Something about Sayaka's zombie experience?
 
Really the best way it could play out is asking Oriko what would happen, her telling us that it would work, then going through with it anyway.
 
Really the best way it could play out is asking Oriko what would happen, her telling us that it would work, then going through with it anyway.
But she'll only do it if she wants to do it... We need to get Kirika on board with this first.

... Look, I just want to see classy Kirika and air-headed Oriko, OK?

Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[X] Of course, Homura.
[X] Does she know where to find her?
[X] Continue on.
[X] Ask Homura if she minds you swiping some money. Do so if she approves.
[X] Tell her about our recent encounters with Kyoko, and about your plan for the picnic. Any advice for how to get on her good side?
No. of votes: 5
Gadjo, Ugolino, Muramasa, Agent Whiskers, MrLZRS

[X] Of course, Homura.
[X] Does she know where to find her?
[X] Continue on.
[X] Ask if she knows any details about the girl.
No. of votes: 1
Xicree
So, are we still mentioning the picnic idea regarding Kyouko?
 
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