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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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MissingJimbo said:
@Firnagzen Can we get an exact wording on Madoka's wish last loop? We need to know whether she simply wished for 'everything to be fixed' or wished for someone to come and fix everything.
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Don't believe we actually know that. We'd have to ask Homura.
Muramasa said:
@Gadjo



I would prefer safer wording on this line. It sounds like we're encouraging these girls to learn even more about the system. This draws closer to the witchbomb than I'm comfortable with.
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Not really my vote, but what do you think of this alternative: (Difference in red
"Of course, that's why it's important to know the whole of this rotten system -- Kyubey likes to get his contracts however he can, and the best way to keep from falling prey is knowing that he's trying to trick you- that he really just wants you to contract, nothing more. Remember how I said he tried to get Madoka to contract? Well, he did that even though me making a contract with him would have saved my life anyways -- and as a matter of fact, it did."
 
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o3o said:
We saw ourselves magicless, and we contracted normally. We have no witch barrier, and generate soul-gem grief normally...and, you know, we know for a fact that we have a witch called Dedolere.
Ergo, we aren't a witch.
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Bzzzt! Wrong!

We actually didn't check if we didn't have magic. Kazumi could have contracted before she first found that she had magic easily enough.
o3o said:
There's a radius in which we control grief, but that radius is still pretty much earth. No familiars running around, none of the usual trippy reality-bending backgrounds, and so on. :V
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I could argue that grief effects fading outside our radius is rather trippy - we even checked on this, after all.

(I think it is just weird at times, though.)
 
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@Ugolino , it certainly wasn't the intention to whitewash Kyubey. That was an unfortunate casualty of stripping things down to a simple explanation of the current situation. I will attempt to apply the same principles of simplicity to an appropriate condemnation. My first thought is to put a particularly invective emphasis on thing. That alone might communicate more than any description
 
Torgamous said:
You're assuming that some value less than or equal to the sum of all future witches and contributions of humanity would be too high to measure. Since the bit you quoted shows that it can tell that her potential is worth "the fates of numerous worlds" rather than, say, "at least half a world", your assumption seems very poorly founded.
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"The fates of numerous worlds" is a reference to the 100 time lines of Earth that are focused on her. It's not an exact measurement of her potential in terms of the expected value of a standard world.

And if Madoka's potential really is that high then Kyuubey is even more an idiot because Madoka/Kriemhild Gretchen is potentially an intergalactic threat.

rikalous said:
Why wouldn't he be using the best measuring equipment he could in the first place?
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If his best equipment said "too high to measure", then he should have made better equipment or requested better equipment from home or stopped. If getting better equipment would take a long time (and he didn't want to lose the possibility of a contract), then he should have stuck Madoka into stasis or something. Proceeding with contracting given his lack of information was risky beyond belief. And indeed the situation with Madokami ended up severely hurting the incubators in the long run (though losing energy from witchouts was a lot less of a penalty than what could have happened).
 
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'Lement said:
Bzzzt! Wrong!

We actually didn't check if we didn't have magic. Kazusa Michiru could have contracted before she first found that she had magic easily enough.

I could argue that grief effects fading outside our radius is rather trippy - we even checked on this, after all.

(I think it is just weird at times, though.)
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I thought the rosebush stayed destroyed, and the injuries caused by our grief remained?
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
@Ugolino , it certainly wasn't the intention to whitewash Kyubey. That was an unfortunate casualty of stripping things down to a simple explanation of the current situation. I will attempt to apply the same principles of simplicity to an appropriate condemnation. My first thought is to put a particularly invective emphasis on thing. That alone might communicate more than any description
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I guess. Thing is, Kyubey's weapon is intel, the more of it he possesses in relation to other people the more he can manipulate them. It's better if she knows why we hate him.
 
Gadjo said:
I guess. Thing is, Kyubey's weapon is intel, the more of it he possesses in relation to other people the more he can manipulate them. It's better if she knows why we hate him.
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Made the following edit:

[X] Madoka and Sayaka were approached by Kyubey - that's the thing that offers contacts - because they have the potential. That's how they became involved. We had to make sure they were informed of the downsides, because Kyubey conveniently doesn't bother to mention any of the downsides.
[X] Kyubey prefers to keep magic a secret, but the five of us don't like keeping secrets from friends. Sorry for not telling you sooner.
[X] Besides, although it had a very high price, magic can do incredible things. It should be possible to heal Kyouske, or yourself.
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@Gadjo: I think that means they're even more familiar-like - not just a mechanism set in motion, but they resonate with our soul. That said, that is part of the semi-independent.
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Made the following edit:
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How about
[ ] Madoka and Sayaka were approached by Kyubey - that's the thing that offers contacts - because they have the potential. That's how they became involved. We had to make sure they were informed of the downsides, because Kyubey conveniently doesn't bother to mention any of the downsides.

There's more than just soul, after all.
 
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Ugolino said:
He's extremely relevant to magic and being meguca not being great, and "hopefully Madoka will say it, maybe" isn't a reason to not bring it up just in case she doesn't.
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boonerunner said:
The existence and danger of witches is immediately relevant both to the discussion about the costs of contracting and with respect to the danger that they pose to Hitomi personally, so I think we need to make sure to bring it up as part of the vote.
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Gadjo said:
Why would we not mention him? He's an extremely important part of this whole system and why it sucks. Leaving him out it pointless and omits important information.
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Because for some reason we must Absolutely Tell Her Everything There Is To Know About the Magical System Right This Instant. Because we will never have another chance to talk to her. She won't be talking with Sayaka at home, or Madoka at school, or anyone at the picnic, or have any conversations with anyone else, ever. She will not come up with questions on her own. Madoka and Sayaka have no interest in talking with her themselves; they require Sabrina to Answer All Questions so that they don't have to worry about ever doing anything. Hitomi doesn't need to learn at her own pace; she must be Told. And learning about Kyuubey (a creature she'd never even heard about, and is surely the foremost concern on her mind right now; not the issue of what this says about her relationship with her friends, or what they may or may not be trying to get her to do) is absolutely urgent, despite the fact that she'd been kept completely in the dark for the last couple weeks.

Basically, it's reminiscent of all the conversation problems Sabrina had throughout the Sendai conflict. The obsessive, demanding, overbearing approach of forcing things to fit our own desires, with no consideration that any of the other people in the conversation are human, or might be able to act or say anything without our prompting. Someone even had a vote to telepathically tell Madoka and Sayaka to hug her, as if they were incapable of doing anything without our puppeteering.

We can certainly explain about Kyuubey when it's actually an appropriate conversation topic. If she asks for details, Sabrina (or anyone else) can explain things. But it is not the question she has right now, nor is it an appropriate answer to anything being discussed at the moment.
 
I did add a little extra to the end of my vote, though:

[x] "Madoka and Sayaka kind of got dragged into it by accident. That's how they met Mami."
[x] "Then I met them due to circumstances around when I arrived here."
[x] "And Homura met Mami earlier, and... well, lots of things have happened that tied us all together."
[x] "The important thing, though, is that through all of this, you've never really been directly affected, so we've been trying to avoid dragging you into the mess that is the magical girl world."
[x] "However it's not fair to them, or to you, to constantly have to tiptoe around this massive secret. You're their friend — our friend — which means we don't want to hide things from you."
[x] "This isn't a recruitment speech or anything; we're not trying to drag you into being a magical girl. This is just us coming clean about some of the issues that a friend should know about."
[x] Help answer any questions she might have (though let the others take the lead where appropriate, rather than dominating the conversation), with the understanding that we're still wanting to visit Kyousuke before dinner.
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Stalling is counterproductive, and how is she not asking about that? The whole point of that line is that we failed to properly explain how Madoka and Sayaka got involved. We do not want her to be ignorant of what Kyubey's trying to do, of what a contract means, and what position her friends are in for no benefit whatsoever to us or anyone else. We've seen how that song and dance goes with canon.

And as the last vote shows, if they act on their own initiative, it obviously won't come up thanks to us...but them speaking up doesn't make avoiding taking action for avoiding action's sake any more productive.

This is a quest not a non-interactive story, and the idea that taking action or planning to cover things in a timely fashion is somehow undesirable or bad is just a bizarre phobia.

Inaction is very, very rarely a good vote and definitely not in this case.
 
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Ugolino said:
Stalling is counterproductive, and how is she not asking about that? The whole point of that line is that we failed to properly explain how Madoka and Sayaka got involved. We do not want her to be ignorant of what Kyubey's trying to do, of what a contract means, and what position her friends are in for no benefit whatsoever to us or anyone else. We've seen how that song and dance goes with canon.
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We're not stalling, all information will be made available, we're just interpreting this one questing in a more personal way than you are. Talking about Kyuubey is "why tell anyone", not "why me in particular". She already knows the worst thing that we can say in front of Mami (at least from a Japanese metaphysics perspective) anyway.
 
'Lement said:
But things we healed didn't, and grief didn't propagate to cause injuries.

Oh yeah, and we do have familiars - our semi-independent music instruments! (Going by automata = familiar anyway)
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Fair enough. We still have Dedolere though; our actual witch. And, again, we have a Soul Gem that generates grief normally rather then a grief seed.
 
I agree with Ugo. We need to at least inform Hitomi as to how her two best friends got involved in something dangerous, and not to trust bunnycat.
 
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