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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Muramasa said:
I'm not disagreeing with the action. Just the reasoning being given. It's a technical issue.
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I guess I was being dishonest there, actually.

How about this?

[] I don't know. Nothing like this happened the first time, but I figured I wouldn't make anymore Barriers. If the Barrier did somehow cause this... I don't know how that could happen, but I won't to risk a repeat. Also, Kyuubey showed way too much interestest on the first one.

Or maybe more concise.

[] I don't know. Nothing like this happened with the first Barrier, though Kyuubey showed way too much interest in it... And, seeing this, I figured I shouldn't make any more. Not worth the risk.
 
[x] It doesn't feel like my powers.
[x] This wasn't the first time I ran that test; like I told you at lunch, I made the same barrier the same way this morning, and didn't encounter anything unexpected. In any case no more barriers. Not until I find out what feathers is all about.
 
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Hmm... We will have to be careful not to hurt Mami, and that we can keep all the characters stable and happy. It feels so good to finally be participating in this fantastic quest.(social fu is so hard!)
 
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Sereg said:
The show itself says yes. Gretchen's Grief Seed was the size of a comet. Homura was dwarfed by it while it was clearly in the far distance.
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Well, technically that was Madoka's Soul Gem, which had gotten to that size after absorbing all hope and despair in the entire universe and all potential timelines. And from what it looks like when it's breaking apart, it seems like it's a normal sized Soul Gem with a massive 'aura' flaring around it as it shoots through space, as there's a noticable but small pink 'head' near the front of the comet, and black begins to billow out of it as Ultimate Gretchen is born, corrupting the rest of the comet-tail.

Witches don't have to be weaker. If witches are stronger, all that means is that most of Kyuubey's contracts are too weak to kill even a single witch before witching out. Something I see as entirely possible.
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This is strictly impossible or else the human population would be on a noticeable decline, because you'd have to account for every Magical Girl who essentially vanishes in their first fight, plus every human those Witches can eat before they're defeated.

If Magical Girls don't defeat multiple Witches within their short lifespans on average, then the human race would eventually become extinct.

Also, Sayaka took out a pretty good measure of them in the...what, month that she lived? And she's a fairly bottom-tier Meguca.

Magical Girls explicitly get stronger with experience and explicitly always become a stronger witch than the strongest witch they've ever defeated. That's how Madoka became so powerful. Her wish forced her to defeat her own witch, thereby becoming stronger than her future self, which would then become a stronger witch, which would then be defeated, making her even more powerful still, an infinite number of times, thereby gaining infinite strength.
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Incorrect. Madoka became powerful because of Homura's shenanigans. The Madoka in timeline four was already powerful enough to defeat the strongest witch in a single blast, so naturally when she witches out she'd take her place because, like, damn, she trivialized that thing. Madoka was so fucking powerful that even if we concede that her Witch is weaker than her, it'd be the strongest Witch in the world.

Madoka is bullshit and fucks all the predictive models. Madoka became a God because she wished to do something impossible for anything except a God.

Re: "Who is Dreaming?" Homucifer fucking confirmed god fucking dammit.
 
[x]I...I don't know. Nothing like this happened the first time, but I figured I wasn't going to make any more Barriers. It...There's just too much that could go wrong, and Kyubey seemed way too interested in the first one.
[x]I...I don't think my powers caused it to happen, though. I don't see how they could have...and I think Feathers is something else. I don't have anything concrete but...I have a hunch it's been out there for a while.

Thoughts?
 
Keping it simple for now.

[x] It doesn't feel like my powers.
[x] This wasn't the first time I ran that test; I made the same barrier the same way earlier, and didn't encounter anything unexpected. In any case no more barriers. Not until I find out what feathers is all about.
 
Ugolino said:
Well, I read that line as meaning >we BSODed and hurt Mami
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Mami getting hurt was not so much the barrier's fault as it was us forgetting about the possibility of "zoning out" and failing to warn Mami ahead of time (and take precautions, like start with a simple setting first). That one was much more on us.

Throwing away a stove just because you got burnt by it once isn't reasonable. (Throwing away a stove because it has a strong chance of blowing up is reasonable, but not merely because you got burnt)

Muramasa said:
Not until I find out what feathers is all about.
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The only issue I have with this is that this may mean till near the end of the quest.
Yea, I get what you mean (not until you know barriers are safe, especially re: feathers, which may be NEVER if further evidence comes that there is a connection), but that is just a nit-pick.

However, overall, I do like Mura's vote better because it gives something much closer to the "real" reason we are abandoning this "tech-tree" for, what is now, beyond the foreseeable future (e.g. pretty much Feathers alone is propelling the "NOPE meters" off the charts; the other things pinged it some, but not out of the expected ranges (though on the high end) of "new science").

GiftOfLove said:
We made a barrier. Barriers are filled with familiars. We made a familiar?
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Familiars have grief bodies; this feather does not feel like grief.
 
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techsy730 said:
The only issue I have with this is that this may mean till near the end of the quest.
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From a narrative standpoint, it just means barrier research is out until we have proof Sabrina's barriers aren't the cause or we have solid confirmation on what feathers really is, at which point we may have bigger problems.

In the meantime, enchantment is always a good call. Space enhancement seems to be the ideal means of storing grief at the moment. We can also test grief 'fields' without the need of a barrier.
 
Muramasa said:
From a narrative standpoint, it just means barrier research is out until we have proof Sabrina's barriers aren't the cause or we have solid confirmation on what feathers really is, at which point we may have bigger problems.

In the meantime, enchantment is always a good call. Space enhancement seems to be the ideal means of storing grief at the moment. We can also test grief 'fields' without the need of a barrier.
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Sure, this actually does seem like a good idea to try and get rid of our storage problem, but despite our hate, kyuubey still has some grief disposal useage, that we can use to perms angle get rid of grief, that does'nt mean we need to like it though.
 
If this is Homulucifer, why (by proxy) target Seyiku? I mean, I know Homura isn't exactly a huge fan of Salaka, but even in Homulucifer's "questionable" state of mind, is it really hatred to the point of offing Ugo in such a terrible way, and just her alone? Homu did let her spend time with Koko somewhat happily even after trying (and failing utterly) to take her out.

GiftOfLove said:
Our barriers can't be the cause in hindsight, because Feathers predates them, yeah?
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What I am afraid of is our Barriers letting Feathers get her faster, or at least intervene from "further away".
 
Muramasa said:
Barriers taking too long to make is irrelevant. I get the intent but saying we're not making barriers because it's impractical is just flat out untrue.
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It's the first reason why I was reluctant to make them again, so it's not making stuff up, but it's the smaller concern, so I'm willing to take it out, or at least highlight that it's the smaller concern.



AuraTwilight said:
Well, technically that was Madoka's Soul Gem, which had gotten to that size after absorbing all hope and despair in the entire universe and all potential timelines. And from what it looks like when it's breaking apart, it seems like it's a normal sized Soul Gem with a massive 'aura' flaring around it as it shoots through space, as there's a noticable but small pink 'head' near the front of the comet, and black begins to billow out of it as Ultimate Gretchen is born, corrupting the rest of the comet-tail.
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It doesn't look like that to me, but I haven't seen the blue-ray or movie versions, so I'll take your word for it.


This is strictly impossible or else the human population would be on a noticeable decline, because you'd have to account for every Magical Girl who essentially vanishes in their first fight, plus every human those Witches can eat before they're defeated.
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Easily solved with the fact that humans will have a higher reproductive rate and other sources of death will be less lethal due to the presence of wishes. There are plenty of species where almost all members of the species never survive to adulthood and they're doing fine.

If Magical Girls don't defeat multiple Witches within their short lifespans on average, then the human race would eventually become extinct.
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Yes. Kyuubey's system drives any species he impliments it on to extinction. We knew this already.

Also, Sayaka took out a pretty good measure of them in the...what, month that she lived? And she's a fairly bottom-tier Meguca.
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Literally the only evidence that Sayaka is bottom-tier is that she's much weaker than the rest of the cast we know about, who, for all we know, are in the 99th percentile of most powerful magical girls in the world and most of Kyuubey's contracts are complete fodder. Do you really put that past Kyuubey?


Incorrect. Madoka became powerful because of Homura's shenanigans. The Madoka in timeline four was already powerful enough to defeat the strongest witch in a single blast, so naturally when she witches out she'd take her place because, like, damn, she trivialized that thing. Madoka was so fucking powerful that even if we concede that her Witch is weaker than her, it'd be the strongest Witch in the world.
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This is why Madoka is powerful, yes. It's the reason that she's by far the most powerful meguca ever. It's the reason why if every if every single living thing in the entire multiverse that ever lived was capable of becoming a meguca did so and you added all their power together, it still wouldn't even begin to register next to hers. It's not the reason that her power is literally infinite. The reason that her power is literally infinite is,= that she built an infinite loop, where each loop increased her power without limit, into her wish. That loop was that she would defeat her own witch. Kyuubey had already stated that every magical girl becomes a witch more powerful than the strongest wish she defeated, which is why that is a loop that results in infinite power.

Madoka is bullshit and fucks all the predictive models. Madoka became a God because she wished to do something impossible for anything except a God.
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Eh, there are other fictional characters capable of those kinds of feats that I wouldn't classify as gods. The point was that her wish required her to become stronger than herself which only makes sense if she has infinite strength.



GiftOfLove said:
We made a barrier. Barriers are filled with familiars. We made a familiar?
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As said, familiars feel like grief to us, which this doesn't.

techsy730 said:
Mami getting hurt was not so much the barrier's fault as it was us forgetting about the possibility of "zoning out" and failing to warn Mami ahead of time (and take precautions, like start with a simple setting first). That one was much more on us.

Throwing away a stove just because you got burnt by it once isn't reasonable. (Throwing away a stove because it has a strong chance of blowing up is reasonable, but not merely because you got burnt)
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Throwing away a faulty stove that burns you every time you use it is reasonable though. If making a barrier renders us completely helpless and unaware for thirty minutes and completely unable to react, even while Mami is screaming in our ear for help or while we are being steadily butchered ... I'm not happy with that.

The only issue I have with this is that this may mean till near the end of the quest.
Yea, I get what you mean (not until you know barriers are safe, especially re: feathers, which may be NEVER if further evidence comes that there is a connection), but that is just a nit-pick.
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I'd rather never use a barrier again for the rest of the quest and find an alternative (of which we likely have plenty. It's not like we're short o ideas to try) than to keep using something that makes us completely vulnerable.


[x] It doesn't feel like my powers. At least, not to me. And I certainly never intended for any of this to happen. Does it feel like my constructs to you?
[x] It's not the first time I made the barrier. I made the same barrier the same way earlier and nothing like this happened then. But I figured I wasn't going to make any more Barriers. At least, not until I find out what feathers is all about, or have made sure that it's safe. After seeing this, I think there's just too much that could go wrong. I don't want to risk a repeat. Also, Kyuubey showed way too much interest in the first one.
[x]I...I don't think my powers caused it to happen, though. I don't see how they could have...and I think Feathers is something else. I don't have anything concrete but...I have a hunch it's been out there for a while.
[X] That said, I'm not even positive whatever made the feather is responsible for what happened to Sayaka. It could be someone trying to tell me something, maybe give me a warning, or it could just be an elaborate coincidence, or even intentionally placed there to sow doubt. Who knows?
[x] To be honest, it kind of freaks me out though, if only because I don't know what to expect. At least the feather itself doesn't seem to be attacking us or anything like that.
[x] What I do know is you are my friends. I have no intentions of hurting any of you and I wouldn't use my powers in a way that I believed was going to hurt any of you.
[x] Whatever is wrong can't be fixed until we learn more and panicking or acting rashly isn't going to help, so we should be cautious and stay alert, but wait until we know more before we decide how to deal with the problem.

How's this?

EDIT:

techsy730 said:
If this is Homulucifer, why (by proxy) target Seyiku? I mean, I know Homura isn't exactly a huge fan of Salaka, but even in Homulucifer's "questionable" state of mind, is it really hatred to the point of offing Ugo in such a terrible way, and just her alone? Homu did let her spend time with Koko somewhat happily even after trying (and failing utterly) to take her out.


What I am afraid of is our Barriers letting Feathers get her faster, or at least intervene from "further away".
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As I've said before, Sayaka is Homucifer's greatest threat and enemy. She promised to always remember that Homucifer is a demon and to try and stop her.
 
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Sereg said:
It's the first reason why I was reluctant to make them again, so it's not making stuff up, but it's the smaller concern, so I'm willing to take it out, or at least highlight that it's the smaller concern.







It doesn't look like that to me, but I haven't seen the blue-ray or movie versions, so I'll take your word for it.




Easily solved with the fact that humans will have a higher reproductive rate and other sources of death will be less lethal due to the presence of wishes. There are plenty of species where almost all members of the species never survive to adulthood and they're doing fine.



Yes. Kyuubey's system drives any species he impliments it on to extinction. We knew this already.



Literally the only evidence that Sayaka is bottom-tier is that she's much weaker than the rest of the cast we know about, who, for all we know, are in the 99th percentile of most powerful magical girls in the world and most of Kyuubey's contracts are complete fodder. Do you really put that past Kyuubey?




This is why Madoka is powerful, yes. It's the reason that she's by far the most powerful meguca ever. It's the reason why if every if every single living thing in the entire multiverse that ever lived was capable of becoming a meguca did so and you added all their power together, it still wouldn't even begin to register next to hers. It's not the reason that her power is literally infinite. The reason that her power is literally infinite is,= that she built an infinite loop, where each loop increased her power without limit, into her wish. That loop was that she would defeat her own witch. Kyuubey had already stated that every magical girl becomes a witch more powerful than the strongest wish she defeated, which is why that is a loop that results in infinite power.



Eh, there are other fictional characters capable of those kinds of feats that I wouldn't classify as gods. The point was that her wish required her to become stronger than herself which only makes sense if she has infinite strength.




As said, familiars feel like grief to us, which this doesn't.



Throwing away a faulty stove that burns you every time you use it is reasonable though. If making a barrier renders us completely helpless and unaware for thirty minutes and completely unable to react, even while Mami is screaming in our ear for help or while we are being steadily butchered ... I'm not happy with that.



I'd rather never use a barrier again for the rest of the quest and find an alternative (of which we likely have plenty. It's not like we're short o ideas to try) than to keep using something that makes us completely vulnerable.


[x] It doesn't feel like my powers. At least, not to me. And I certainly never intended for any of this to happen. Does it feel like my constructs to you?
[x] It's not the first time I made the barrier. I made the same barrier the same way earlier and nothing like this happened then. But I figured I wasn't going to make any more Barriers. At least, not until I find out what feathers is all about, or have made sure that it's safe. After seeing this, I think there's just too much that could go wrong. I don't want to risk a repeat. Also, Kyuubey showed way too much interest in the first one.
[x]I...I don't think my powers caused it to happen, though. I don't see how they could have...and I think Feathers is something else. I don't have anything concrete but...I have a hunch it's been out there for a while.
[X] That said, I'm not even positive whatever made the feather is responsible for what happened to Sayaka. It could be someone trying to tell me something, maybe give me a warning, or it could just be an elaborate coincidence, or even intentionally placed there to sow doubt. Who knows?
[x] To be honest, it kind of freaks me out though, if only because I don't know what to expect. At least the feather itself doesn't seem to be attacking us or anything like that.
[x] What I do know is you are my friends. I have no intentions of hurting any of you and I wouldn't use my powers in a way that I believed was going to hurt any of you.
[x] Whatever is wrong can't be fixed until we learn more and panicking or acting rashly isn't going to help, so we should be cautious and stay alert, but wait until we know more before we decide how to deal with the problem.

How's this?
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This looks pretty good, but we should have the Provost go over it and see if it will work
 
Ugolino said:
I commented as much in my version.
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but I figured I wasn't going to make any more Barriers. It...There's just too much that could go wrong
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I don't agree with completely abandoning barriers. We had an unexpected scare but it's one with a very simple workaround. I understand shelving barriers until feathers is addressed but afterwards, I see too many good uses for them to just abandon it like that.
 
Vote tally:
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##### 3.21
[X] I can't see how...but if there is something else that caused this it's possible they were waiting for me to be....distracted .
No. of votes: 1
universalperson

[X] I don't know. Nothing like this happened the first time, but I figured I wouldn't make anymore Barriers. If the Barrier did somehow cause this... I don't know how that could happen, but I won't to risk a repeat. Also, Kyuubey showed way too much interestest on the first one.
[X] About the feather itself... It doesn't feel like my constructs, right? To be honest, it kind of freaks me out.
No. of votes: 1
Onmur

[X] Ugo.
No. of votes: 1
Redshirt Army

[X] Muramasa
No. of votes: 1
Lordsservent

[x] It doesn't feel like my powers.
[x] This wasn't the first time I ran that test; I made the same barrier the same way earlier, and didn't encounter anything unexpected. In any case no more barriers. Not until I find out what feathers is all about.
No. of votes: 2
Muramasa, EtchedSteel

[x]I...I don't know. Nothing like this happened the first time, but I figured I wasn't going to make any more Barriers. It...There's just too much that could go wrong, and Kyubey seemed way too interested in the first one.
[x]I...I don't think my powers caused it to happen, though. I don't see how they could have...and I think Feathers is something else. I don't have anything concrete but...I have a hunch it's been out there for a while.
No. of votes: 1
Ugolino

[x] It doesn't feel like my powers. At least, not to me. And I certainly never intended for any of this to happen. Does it feel like my constructs to you?
[x] It's not the first time I made the barrier. I made the same barrier the same way earlier and nothing like this happened then. But I figured I wasn't going to make any more Barriers. At least, not until I find out what feathers is all about, or have made sure that it's safe. After seeing this, I think there's just too much that could go wrong. I don't want to risk a repeat. Also, Kyuubey showed way too much interest in the first one.
[x]I...I don't think my powers caused it to happen, though. I don't see how they could have...and I think Feathers is something else. I don't have anything concrete but...I have a hunch it's been out there for a while.
[X] That said, I'm not even positive whatever made the feather is responsible for what happened to Sayaka. It could be someone trying to tell me something, maybe give me a warning, or it could just be an elaborate coincidence, or even intentionally placed there to sow doubt. Who knows?
[x] To be honest, it kind of freaks me out though, if only because I don't know what to expect. At least the feather itself doesn't seem to be attacking us or anything like that.
[x] What I do know is you are my friends. I have no intentions of hurting any of you and I wouldn't use my powers in a way that I believed was going to hurt any of you.
[x] Whatever is wrong can't be fixed until we learn more and panicking or acting rashly isn't going to help, so we should be cautious and stay alert, but wait until we know more before we decide how to deal with the problem.
No. of votes: 1
Sereg
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We pretty much agree on how to start the vote, but we need more for it than just this.

So, yes. Feather's not likely our creation; we're not making any more Barriers. What next? Thank Homura again and invite her over for dinner?
 
We really need to find out why the heck a feather appeared; dimensional SCIENCE! is far too much fun for us to just throw away because it might be letting in the Oracle-proof being that we know nothing about but that it's probably Homucifer...
 
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