chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Oh, that was a joke about consumable grief. Sorry for not making it clearer.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Did Oriko say that Ono isn't in any danger or anything? I can't recall. Just want to make sure that Sayaka is the only one that needs saving.
But yeah, we should bring out the feather and ask Oriko if it matches the ones she's seen in her visions. And we should quickly explain where we found it as well--just a basic "it literally popped out of my Barrier as I shut it down; needless to say, I'm not going to be using that ability any time soon" would suffice. After that, leave. Normally I'd just go for leaving immediately, but presenting the physical evidence that Oriko was not just talking out of her ass might shift some of Homura's suspicion into confusion.
On the other hand, saying that it popped out of our closing barrier might make others more suspicious/wary of us, and potentially imply Witchbomb as well. However, we also have to consider that one or all of them might ask us at some point exactly where we found the feather, which would force us to tell (or lie) anyway.
But yeah, we should bring out the feather and ask Oriko if it matches the ones she's seen in her visions. And we should quickly explain where we found it as well--just a basic "it literally popped out of my Barrier as I shut it down; needless to say, I'm not going to be using that ability any time soon" would suffice. After that, leave. Normally I'd just go for leaving immediately, but presenting the physical evidence that Oriko was not just talking out of her ass might shift some of Homura's suspicion into confusion.
On the other hand, saying that it popped out of our closing barrier might make others more suspicious/wary of us, and potentially imply Witchbomb as well. However, we also have to consider that one or all of them might ask us at some point exactly where we found the feather, which would force us to tell (or lie) anyway.
Gadjo
Doka
Heh. I don't think that'd be an antidote that'd inspire confidence.
Sabrina: "Here, Sayaka, drink this. It should be a cure for the poison-"
Sayaka: *weakly reaches for the bottle*
Sabrina: "Oh, but it might have some... side effects."
Sayaka: *mumbling* "Side... effects?"
Sabrina: "Well... side effects include depression, hallucinations, you might sprout tentacles, and you may or may not start speaking in German for no discernible reason."
"Just call me if you grow scales, okay? Anything else and you should be fine."
I mentioned poison because that was how H.N. Elly would have killed its victims. I'm not specifically expecting that here, because I don't know what to expect. That's the problem. We can't treat this like a normal witch since "Feathers" is involved. "Feathers" was able to mess with Oriko's precognition, so what is to say that it won't be able to mess with Homura's abilities as well? If "Feathers" is Homucifer, then that's practically guaranteed, so we cannot necessarily rely on timestop. If getting more information costs an extra update, then it's worth the cost.
Homura has two problems.
1. Homura doesn't like interacting with Oriko.
2. Homura doesn't trust Oriko.
Spending more time here and now would annoy Homura because of the first reason, not because of the second. If we don't ask Oriko any more questions, we are (effectively) assuming that Oriko's current plan will work as intended despite the fact that we don't know any concrete details about her vision. Oriko likes to play up the whole "vague oracle" thing. Screw that noise. I agree with Homura that we shouldn't trust Oriko when it comes to her oracles: that's why we need to pin her down to get some concretes details that we can verify or plan around.
I agree that Homura pays a price in annoyance and stress when she interacts with Oriko, but that's a long term problem that will not go away simply by limiting their interactions. In fact, the more that Homura interacts in a productive setting like this, the more that she will see that Oriko is actually a human being who cares about people. It's definitely not a "fun" experience for Homura, but it is good for her.
I trust that Firnagzen can write Oriko's answer in a way that isn't useless or boring.
One of the goals of this line is to explain Sabrina's unpredictability to Mami. The other goal is to reassure everyone because the previous line basically asks for Oriko to talk about Sayaka's death at length, so another reassurance that we can avert that death is warranted.
The idea that Oriko might be receiving completely false visions may be obvious to us, but it has not been brought up or discussed.
There are two purposes for checking Sayaka's house before the industrial district. The first is a reassurance to Homura: we're not trusting Oriko's visions at face value, we're verifying the details. The second purpose is that if someone has been messing with Oriko's visions, then the industrial district is a trap. Which means that our approach needs to be completely different.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
"If... and it's a big IF, you grow wings along those scales, would very much mind taking some girls flying? I promised Kirika and Oriko, and I know they burned down your house, but..."
"They did what!?" *Literally spits fire*
Gadjo
Doka
How? I mean, really, what do you expect to find before just going there and finding out what's wrong? If it is the feathers, how do we verify that by screwing around at Sayaka's house? Either way, we're showing up, carefully scoping out the industrial district, finding blueberry and the witch, and then acting to remove all threats and save all innocents.
Also, I personally doubt that she's getting false visions. She's just getting visions that get screwed up because of us or the feathers, I think. Either way this all ends with us going to the industrial district and saving people while watching out for threats.
I guess what I'm asking is: How will this change our approach? From what I've seen, these questions and their answers will not change it much if at all.
If Oriko's vision is wrong, and Sayaka is still at home like she should be, then we need to stop and reevaluate. If we need to save Sayaka from a witch, that's one thing. But if Sayaka is fine and we're dealing with a threat that causes Oriko to have false visions which appear to be designed to lure us to the industrial district, then that is a completely different kettle of fish.
I agree that it's more likely that Oriko's visions are true. But it's still worth checking. It costs us nothing other than a few lines in the update mentioning that we swing by Sayaka's house and verify whether or not she's there. Now that I think about it, it would be a good idea to start from Sayaka's house anyway, since we would be more likely to spot her along the way as we head towards the industrial district.
The problem is that we don't know enough about the situation to know what the best approach would be. For a normal witch, the "go in timestop with guns blazing and save Sayaka" approach would be fine. But this situation is sufficiently odd that I want to gather more information before committing to a plan. More information could definitely change our approach, but don't ask me how it would change until we actually have that information.
Tell me: who is our enemy - "Feathers" or Elsa Maria or both? What weapons does the enemy possess? What threat does our enemy pose to Sayaka? If you are confident in the answers to all of these questions, then by all means vote to leave now. Otherwise we still need to gather more information.Sun Tzu said:
Gadjo
Doka
I'm saying neither Oriko nor Sayaka's house have the answers to those questions.
A different situation, sure, but it all ends with us going to the industrial district and carefully scoping things out, doesn't it? So why don't we just skip to that, and go play detective if we deem it necessary later.
I say we just go there in timestop, which is (relatively) safe, and scope things out. That's what we'd be doing anyway no matter what Oriko tells us or what we find at Sayaka's house.
Regardless, we're talking past each other. You're saying that we have to gather more information on the feathers before going there, and I'm saying that we won't get anything relevant until we go find out in the industrial district, since Oriko either doesn't know or won't tell us, and Sayaka being home would only tell us we need to carefully go to the industrial district anyway, and nothing more.
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Bleh, real life's still being a bit of a bitch. Getting better, admittedly.I worry for you. A large amount of your posts lately seem to be ending in rather negative one liners. There's nothing wrong with a short update.
Muramasa
Best Girl
We are dealing with trauma. Not something that can be dealt with just logic or reason. On top of that we pretty much told her we're dealing with a threat that can displace timelines. That's not something that her powers can do anything about. Not only are we all but forced to rely on Oriko on anything regarding this threat, someone she hates, but she's watching this loop spinning more and more out of control with little means to do anything about it.
This is not helping her.
Do you really think Firn is just going to give you his plans for the quest on a silver platter?
Please tell me why you think this is relevant or helpful.
This is a very poor way to reassure anything. Nothing is being done to actually resolve the high tension. It's wasted breath and nothing else.
What does this do other than ratcheting up paranoia in a high stress situation? Not helpful.
If Sayaka was fine and at her home, she would've responded to telepathy or picked up her phone. She didn't. She's not there.
Timestop is our safest approach period. If whatever this is is enough to pull us out of timestop, we quite frankly are short on alternatives. Whatever. If it's a trap we'll deal with it then.
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Gadjo
Doka
This is my personal greatest objection to all this detective work. As a gamer? I wouldn't expect to find anything more too important without just going to the industrial district and looking around.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Just to play Devil's advocate, phones are a far less advanced form of communication than telepathy. If Kyubey wanted to, it could interrupt our calls.
Gadjo
Doka
Nooooot really his style though. He typically lets you screw yourself over. Interrupting communications is not something we ever see him do, or suggest doing.
Muramasa
Best Girl
I admit, this is possible. Though that would have several implications. One would be Kyubey being aware and actively working with feathers. It would also mean Kyubey is now directly obstructing us which Gadjo pointed out is unlikely.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
If Oriko was given a false vision, then I would vote to stay the heck away from the Industrial District. A false vision would mean that our enemy can mess with Oriko's visions directly and block telepathy and phone calls (as Muramasa brought up). If our enemy is this capable, it is not only possible but likely that they have a counter for Homura's timestop. Triggering a trap intentionally is something we should only do if we know that our enemy can't hurt us.
This does seem to be the point on which we disagree.
I agree that Homura is traumatized for all of these reasons. I don't agree that staying in Oriko's presence for a little while longer will make her trauma worse than it already is. She will be unhappy and stressed out for as long as we're there, but she won't get worse.
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Gadjo
Doka
Ehhhhhhhh...
Just ignore the industrial district and a witch that shouldn't be there? That sounds foolish. I mean, again, I'm looking at this from a gamer's perspective: this is a plot hook, and ignoring it will have severe consequences for us. But ever from a story teller's perspective, when has it even been a good idea to just leave really weird things be if they turn out to be dangerous? Typically means they get to live long enough to go be dangerous in the general direction of something we like. I can't think of anything we could find out that would make it seem so dangerous to go that it would be a better idea to just sit on our hands.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Boone, you're treating the people involved like they're ultimately driven by rationality before all else, which is just not the case.
Homura is already stressed, tense, anxious, and very uncomfortable. She has a gun in her hand and said hand has been literally twitching the whole time. If you honestly think that prolonging this situation for a bit longer can't make it any worse, then I'm inclined to say that you are severely underestimating Homura's trauma and plethora of issues.
I also think you're shadowderping somewhat, or starting to. Operating under the belief that Oriko is being fed false visions is making a hell of a lot of assumptions all at once, and now is not the time for confirming them all, one by one, scientifically.
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Mister Bad Guy
Mr Mercury to friends
- Location
- Bay Area
Vote tally, since Firn is busy making Schwer's computer not explode:
##### 3.21
[X] Okay, well, I think we know all we can figure out at this point. All that's left is to go save Sayaka.
[X] Say goodbye to Oriko and Kirika, and ask Mami to withdraw her ribbon.
[X] Head off towards the industrial district, find the witch, and start looking for Sayaka around the barrier, then inside.
No. of votes: 7
Gadjo, Ugolino, MissingJimbo, Godwinson, Guilop, Muramasa, EtchedSteel
[x] Ask Oriko to explain her old prediction for Mami's benefit, how it changed and now how it's changed back and what the similarities and differences between the original and current predictions are.
[x] Explain to Mami that Sabrina can change make actions that Oriko would not have predicted, so we should be capable of stopping any threats that Oriko sees.
[x] Ask Oriko: Could someone or something be interfering with your visions? Maybe even giving you false ones?
[x] Sayaka is still our current and most urgent priority.
-[x] Ask for more details on Sayaka's situation. How is the witch endangering her?
--[x] Is she okay? Is there anyone else with her?
--[x] Is there anyone else involved? Other magical girls?
--[x] Ask if Madoka and Hitomi are okay? Check with Homura about Madoka.
-[x] If Sayaka is supposed to be at home, then we should go and see if she's really not there to find out if your visions are still working properly and you're not being deceived.
No. of votes: 1
boonerunner
[X] Actually show Homura and Oriko the physical feather at some point. In timestop.
No. of votes: 1
linkhyrule5
[x] Note that you kept the feather, and it's currently contained in a grief marble. Offer to bring it out and show it to them if Oriko doesn't see any negative effects from doing so.
No. of votes: 1
........
##### 3.21
[X] Okay, well, I think we know all we can figure out at this point. All that's left is to go save Sayaka.
[X] Say goodbye to Oriko and Kirika, and ask Mami to withdraw her ribbon.
[X] Head off towards the industrial district, find the witch, and start looking for Sayaka around the barrier, then inside.
No. of votes: 7
Gadjo, Ugolino, MissingJimbo, Godwinson, Guilop, Muramasa, EtchedSteel
[x] Ask Oriko to explain her old prediction for Mami's benefit, how it changed and now how it's changed back and what the similarities and differences between the original and current predictions are.
[x] Explain to Mami that Sabrina can change make actions that Oriko would not have predicted, so we should be capable of stopping any threats that Oriko sees.
[x] Ask Oriko: Could someone or something be interfering with your visions? Maybe even giving you false ones?
[x] Sayaka is still our current and most urgent priority.
-[x] Ask for more details on Sayaka's situation. How is the witch endangering her?
--[x] Is she okay? Is there anyone else with her?
--[x] Is there anyone else involved? Other magical girls?
--[x] Ask if Madoka and Hitomi are okay? Check with Homura about Madoka.
-[x] If Sayaka is supposed to be at home, then we should go and see if she's really not there to find out if your visions are still working properly and you're not being deceived.
No. of votes: 1
boonerunner
[X] Actually show Homura and Oriko the physical feather at some point. In timestop.
No. of votes: 1
linkhyrule5
[x] Note that you kept the feather, and it's currently contained in a grief marble. Offer to bring it out and show it to them if Oriko doesn't see any negative effects from doing so.
No. of votes: 1
........
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
[x] that bandwagon up there. Let's call it Ugomuratachi.
AnonymousRabbit
Rabbit Faced
[x] Gadjo
This is a fair point. And upon rereading, I would even take it a step further:
We could decide to run away from Oriko right now because we're scared that Homura will do something stupid or that we think that she will be upset at us for staying with Oriko for longer. But the current vote says that we should leave Oriko's because there is nothing of value that we can learn from Oriko, and that's something that I strongly disagree with.
What we should do is to calm Homura down. Somehow. And then find out the rest of what Oriko knows.
Maybe we can let Homura decide:
[x] Ask Homura about Madoka to confirm that she's not in danger.
[x] Note that you kept the feather, and it's currently contained in a grief marble. Offer to bring it out and show it to them if Oriko doesn't see any negative effects from doing so.
[x] Ask Homura what she thinks about Oriko's predictions. Ask if she thinks we need to hear more.
-[x] If yes, ask for more details; press Oriko to be clear.
-[x] If no, say goodbye to Oriko and Kirika, and ask Mami to withdraw her ribbon.
--[x] Head off towards the industrial district, find the witch, and start looking for Sayaka around the barrier, then inside.