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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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GilliamYaeger said:
If we wanna do something like what Boone wants, the safest way is to just find some girl with high potential, talk her into contracting with a Wish that gives her portal powers and use that instead. Shitload safer than fucking around with barriers.

Maybe get a whole bunch of them. Give 'em salaries. Make a meguca company, achieve a global meguca monopoly.
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Finding a portal girl to implement the idea would be great. If you think we can convince someone to contract with that ability, then I would be all for it. But right now our ability is Barriers, not portals, and we might have the ability to leverage them into breaking the system by providing mass cleansing. So we should at least see if it would be possible to do so.

Gadjo said:
You are underestimating the witchy feel thing. Mami and Homu nearly attacked us on instinct when we went and used witch-grief around them.
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All magical girls enter witch barriers and put themselves in life threatening danger for the sake of getting grief seeds. Entering our barrier would be strictly better than the alternative because even if it did feel just as off-putting as an actual witch barrier, there would be no actual danger. Researching ways to mask the grief would greatly improve the project, but it's a project that is worth doing even if we can't.

It is not something that's important in the near future. We will not be getting the network anywhere near that big... most likely for the duration of the actual quest.
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The sooner we set up a mass cleansing system, the more lives will be saved, so I don't see how you can say that it's not important. Working on the project would also give Mami something positive to focus on. And from a storytelling perspective, I'm confident that Firnagzen could make it interesting (perhaps by time-skipping the boring administrative parts).
 
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boonerunner said:
Finding a portal girl to implement the idea would be great. If you think we can convince someone to contract with that ability, then I would be all for it. But right now our ability is Barriers, not portals, and we might have the ability to leverage them into breaking the system by providing mass cleansing. So we should at least see if it would be possible to do so.


All magical girls enter witch barriers and put themselves in life threatening danger for the sake of getting grief seeds. Entering our barrier would be strictly better than the alternative because even if it did feel just as off-putting as an actual witch barrier, there would be no actual danger. Researching ways to mask the grief would greatly improve the project, but it's a project that is worth doing even if we can't.


The sooner we set up a mass cleansing system, the more lives will be saved, so I don't see how you can say that it's not important. Working on the project would also give Mami something positive to focus on. And from a storytelling perspective, I'm confident that Firnagzen could make it interesting (perhaps by time-skipping the boring administrative parts).
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A: The "let's contract a portalguca on purpose" thing was a joke. That would be kind of really selfish and evil to encourage someone to make the contract.
B: I'm not saying let's not help people. I'm saying that we don't need to make a pocket dimension built of wrong to do it.
C: Firn would not let us skip that, that's the thing. For now? We should focus more on Mitakihara and the immediately surrounding area. We should deal with feathers before we go about trying to literally save the entire world.
 
Gadjo said:
The "let's contract a portalguca on purpose" thing was a joke. That would be kind of really selfish and evil to encourage someone to make the contract.
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If it could save thousands of lives, then it would be worth it. And a mass cleansing solution would easily be able to do that. But we can (possibly) make a mass cleansing solution without asking anyone to make a contract. It's worth pursuing.

I'm not saying let's not help people. I'm saying that we don't need to make a pocket dimension built of wrong to do it.
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Now you've lost me. Grief and Barriers are made of wrong, yes. But the fact that they're made of wrong doesn't mean we shouldn't use them to help people. It's deliciously ironic when we do so.

Firn would not let us skip that, that's the thing.
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@Firnagzen: if we implemented a mass cleansing system which required Sabrina to spend a few hours each day cleansing peoples' gems and doing various upkeep work to support it, would you allow us to skip the boring parts?

For now? We should focus more on Mitakihara and the immediately surrounding area. We should deal with feathers before we go about trying to literally save the entire world.
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I don't know about you, but my goal in this quest is to fulfill Sabrina's wish:
Firnagzen said:
"I wish to control grief! My own! That of others! The grief of the Witches! All of it!"
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To me this means cleansing all of the grief, destroying all of the witches, and dewitching all of the grief seeds. The Barrier is the first thing we've done so far which appears to (possibly) be able to support mass cleansing in a relatively short amount of time. And as for the other things we need to do: Sabrina's mind is admirably suited to multitasking. You'll notice that my current vote has us actively researching "Feathers" after Homura arrives.
 
landcollector said:
Slow down, boone. You're trying to rush things way too much.
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The original context of the conversation is this:

boonerunner said:
techsy730 said:
"Barrier tech" was a mid priority "project" anyways; we just spent a bunch of time on it, now back to high priority stuff.
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Before dismissing barriers as mid priority instead of high priority, there are two things that we need to check:
1. Do we have range greater than 100 meters inside the barrier?
2. Do we have the ability to open multiple entrances to the barrier?
If the answer to both of these questions is "yes", then the barrier can facilitate mass cleansing by opening entrances in every major city and providing quick transportation to Mitakihara.
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What I am currently proposing that we do is to measure these two attributes about barriers the next time we do SCIENCE. Everything after that is just speculation about the future.
 
boonerunner said:
If it could save thousands of lives, then it would be worth it. And a mass cleansing solution would easily be able to do that. But we can (possibly) make a mass cleansing solution without asking anyone to make a contract. It's worth pursuing.


Now you've lost me. Grief and Barriers are made of wrong, yes. But the fact that they're made of wrong doesn't mean we shouldn't use them to help people. It's deliciously ironic when we do so.


@Firnagzen: if we implemented a mass cleansing system which required Sabrina to spend a few hours each day cleansing peoples' gems and doing various upkeep work to support it, would you allow us to skip the boring parts?


I don't know about you, but my goal in this quest is to fulfill Sabrina's wish:

To me this means cleansing all of the grief, destroying all of the witches, and dewitching all of the grief seeds. The Barrier is the first thing we've done so far which appears to (possibly) be able to support mass cleansing in a relatively short amount of time. And as for the other things we need to do: Sabrina's mind is admirably suited to multitasking. You'll notice that my current vote has us actively researching "Feathers" after Homura arrives.
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I'm saying that housing people in a barrier is needlessly complicated. It's called an apartment. And it's not so much the system once we have it set up, Boone. It's that setting it up will be very difficult. Just look at Sendai. That kind of shit will go down all the time if we try to do that writ large. Not saying Sabrina shouldn't do it some day if that's what it comes to, but right now? Our goal is to save Mitakihara and everyone in it. The whole, "setting up a system" thing? That's long term. Waaaaaaay long term. Like, beyond most threats in the quest long term.
 
Perhaps I should be clear: for the time being, we need to focus on our friends and other social things. Science can wait. Even this practice session was attempting to calm down Mami and build her self-esteem, not really find much out.
 
Gadjo said:
The whole, "setting up a system" thing? That's long term. Waaaaaaay long term. Like, beyond most threats in the quest long term.
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All long term plans are made up of short term steps. At this current moment, I'm not advocating doing anything at all on this subject, since researching Barriers is not appropriate right now. But the next time we have SCIENCE, I will advocate researching the properties of a Barrier that could make long term cleansing feasible. If it turns out that Barriers don't work that way, then that will be the end of it. But if it does turn out to be possible, then I would vote to take another small step: this weekend when fly around on our cleansing trip, I would vote that we setup an entrance in each location and tell everyone that they can use it if they want to come to Mitakihara for a quick cleanse. The network could be expanded from there one small step at a time.
 
boonerunner said:
All long term plans are made up of short term steps. At this current moment, I'm not advocating doing anything at all on this subject, since researching Barriers is not appropriate right now. But the next time we have SCIENCE, I will advocate researching the properties of a Barrier that could make long term cleansing feasible. If it turns out that Barriers don't work that way, then that will be the end of it. But if it does turn out to be possible, then I would vote to take another small step: this weekend when fly around on our cleansing trip, I would vote that we setup an entrance in each location and tell everyone that they can use it if they want to come to Mitakihara for a quick cleanse. The network could be expanded from there one small step at a time.
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Look, my final line on the issue? We should be focusing on things other than science, as a general rule. There's characters to be interacted with, mysteries to be solved, yada yada. We aren't going to science our way past the plot, so let's focus on plot the good ol fashioned way: go talk to people and do things other than screwing around at a warehouse.

Edit: I don't mean "let's not do science anymore" I mean that we should focus on it a lot less.
 
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boonerunner said:
To me this means cleansing all of the grief, destroying all of the witches, and dewitching all of the grief seeds.
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The goal is also help people and interact with them (like what Gadjo said. Dammit man, you beat me on it). Figure out who they're. See what's wrong and what can be done about it. Is not about the power we have. Hell, we could have wished for something else and the focus of the quest would still be the same.

There's a reason why Firn gave us the choice to make any wish save from those that could lead to blatant Path to Victory. We're gonna need more than just power to get a good end here.
 
Keep in mind that a huge theme in Madoka was to be careful what you wish for. Sayaka ended up swimming with the fishes cause instead of wishing that Kwijibo would like her, she wished to heal his hand. Homura wished to go back and be strong enough to save the 'Doka, rather than just wishing that the Doka was saved.

Sabrina doesn't want to be a superpowerful meguca, she wants to save everyone. :V
 
o3o said:
Keep in mind that a huge theme in Madoka was to be careful what you wish for. Sayaka ended up swimming with the fishes cause instead of wishing that Kwijibo would like her, she wished to heal his hand. Homura wished to go back and be strong enough to save the 'Doka, rather than just wishing that the Doka was saved.

Sabrina doesn't want to be a superpowerful meguca, she wants to save everyone. :V
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I agree. Be careful what you wish for is definitely one of the themes of PMMM. But we were very careful with our wish and I (for one) have been quite content with what we wished for. As far as I can tell, our wish and our goals are perfectly in alignment.

Sabrina is powerful, but that's not the point: the point is that her power is ideally suited to saving people. And she gets to spend time with the people she cares about along the way.
 
Ugolino said:
The thing is that the science doesn't need to happen at all and the way the vote goes about it practically guarantees it'll be a problem when Mami or Kyubey notices our elaborate precautions on top of the issue of doing it before talking to Mami. Once we have the feather wrapped in grief, it's a problem for much, much later.
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Again, this isn't science at all. I'm nit trying to learn anything. Just to make sure that our conversation with Mami is uninterrupted, which, while unlikely, is still possible. And again, they have absolutely zero way of noticing how elaborate our precautions are. All they'll see is that we've made a box out of witchstuff, which is really mundane by our standards.

That said, with your latest change to our vote, I'm willing to support it despite my worries.

[x]Ugolino

boonerunner said:
I agree that we want to be careful about what might happen while we're in a fugue state, so we will probably need to have a spotter for any large-scale workings within a Barrier. But those potential dangers would come from external factors, not from the Barrier itself. I bring this up because we did the whole "Let there be light" thing and the next thing we knew was that Mami was severely distraught, so it feels like the Barrier caused Mami to be hurt. But it wasn't actually the Barrier that hurt Mami, it was our inability to properly warn her that caused the problem. I'm worried that people will associate the Barrier with Mami being hurt and will be disinclined to do stuff with them in the future, so I'm trying to head that off.
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At the moment, it looks like a spotter wouldn't even be able to stop us from doing anything dangerous. Mami could not stop us.
 
Sereg said:
At the moment, it looks like a spotter wouldn't even be able to stop us from doing anything dangerous. Mami could not stop us.
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Um. The spotter would mostly be for stopping dangerous things from happening to us while we're busy creating a city or a Tardis or a replica of the Taj Mahal or whatever. In our experience, grief always does exactly what we tell it to do (or nothing at all if what we ask is impossible). The problems happen when there are side effects or what we ask for is not what we actually wanted (be careful what you wish for, indeed).

Ugolino said:
One of the interesting things about Sabrina is that she wants to be liked. :p
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Well, that's easy to arrange. There's a little button for it down at the bottom right... :p
 
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Using barriers for transport/housing is extremely complicated, mind you, due to their having an extra dimension of 'depth', where you seem to be able to go closer and further from 'reality' and where the Witch itself usually resides.

This probably is a representation of diving deeper into a Witch's inner world until, like the Witch, you lose all ability to perceive reality outside of it's personal neurosis, though, so it's possible Sabrina's barrier won't have this depth unless specifically built to have it.

Regardless, though, housing people in a barrier is fucking retarded because nobody is going to sleep or relax in a place where it feels like every single goddamn particle of the building wants to kill you. Just get dolla dolla billz and rent apartments.
 
boonerunner said:
save thousands of lives,
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You underexaggerate :p
Gadjo said:
We should deal with feathers before we go about trying to literally save the entire world.
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This bit, I agree with; in the sense of
boonerunner said:
What I am currently proposing that we do is to measure these two attributes about barriers the next time we do SCIENCE. Everything after that is just speculation about the future.
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Sure...As long as we inspect the feather first. For example, so we can be sure of
techsy730 said:
maybe a crow just wandered into our barrier.
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doesn't apply.
Gadjo said:
Our goal is to save Mitakihara and everyone in it.
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Yeah, not solely, not even for you. Unless you mean to apply "everyone in it that we know of".

Because witch-hunts? They get treated more as a fun activities and people dying to witches kind of sad, not terminal problems that mean we should hunt down every witch in Mitakihara.
Gadjo said:
for the time being, we need to focus on our friends and other social things.
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Gadjo said:
we go about trying to literally save the entire world.
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Alternatively, how many lives in Mitakihara alone could we save if we feed Kyoko a bit and went with Yuma on a trip to the hospital? (maybe in the night?)

That's without even getting into witchy grief, or asking people to spread word of seed trade.

No reason we can't social our way to saving people - the world at the most, but not just social, as outlined in the above example. Social need not mean only hugs and picnics and videogame nights, though; it can also mean group visits to help the needy, which plenty of teenagers do.
 
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