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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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[X] Restrain her using Grief manacles
[x] Do a proper repair
- [x] Welcome back to the land of the living. You tell us what we want to know, you might even get to stay here. Now then, just why was all this necessary? As from our point of view, everything you've done just seems like the actions of a lunatic, someone who would lose no sleep after you nearly killed Sayaka's family and everyone in the entire building. So please, tell us what makes your actions different, what makes them justified.
edited to add grief manacles

And a quick list of other topics we should try to cover somewhere in this conversation, off the top of my head:
-Necessary for WHAT? (Sayaka's house and the bomb in particular)
-Oriko's new recruit, who and where is she, what instructions she has
-Kirika's wish, what it was in this loop, her relationship with Oriko (potential guilt/leverage)
-Contingencies Oriko's placed against her possible death/capture
-What Oriko's precognition says about the impact of our existence on this world
-What her precog says about us having all the grief marbles (Firn has me freaking out with the way he tracks our marbles so carefully)
-Check to see effects of Homura's hairflip on Oriko
-Can we have your hat if something happens to you?
-If Oriko's goal is preventing Wallynight and Madoka contract like in canon, why does she think this is going to work so much better than our methods.

It's 3:30 AM and I suck at thinking of everything, so someone else fill in what I've missed. Some of these may not apply unless the conversation has gone to a wonderful place indeed.
 
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"Also, what should our 'thing' be? Do you think we should be Punmasters, or have diegetic backround music, or what?"
"... Miss Akemi, what would it take for you to break my head off again?"
 
[X] Do a proper repair.
-[X] "Welcome back to the land of the living. Incidentally, what would it take to allow this city to remain there, by your divine grace?"

Start out with a line that makes no sense. Then demand to know what gives her the right to choose who lives and dies. No matter what her intentions, she is playing at being a God. She doesn't have the right to do all this, no matter how necessary.

If she asks who gave us permission to do the shit we do, we state that we can infinitely control Grief, allowing us to destroy Witch barriers, Degrief Magical Girls, and possibly blank filled Grief Seeds. Then we ask her what measure is a god.
 
[x] Do a proper repair
- [x]We need to have a talk, Oriko.
-[x]Why? What could possibly justify this? What did you see? And why would you possibly want to burn down Sayaka's house with everyone sleeping inside? In what world would that possibly be justified?
-[x]Tell me everything you did since making your contract. Who you met, where you went, who you talked to. What your plans were. You let Kirika contract for your sake. You let her affect her own mind for it. Why?
-[x]Has she considered that she might, in fact, be wrong? That the fate of the world doesn't depend on her actions alone? That, in short, her precog might be flawed, since it led her to this situation. She can find her own purpose rather than trusting a wish to do it for her.
-[x]Point out that no matter what she does, she can't fix the system on her own. She wins this one. Then what? There are always going to be Witches. There are always going to be new contracts. Sooner or later, she'll make a mistake and there'll be a threat she can't deal with, and then what good is her precog going to be? If she wins and something does go wrong, Homura's certainly not going to be there to fix the timeline.
[x]If she plays coy, refuses to answer, or we suspect she's lying, remind her of her situation. We don't want to kill her and Kirika, but if she doesn't answer, we can and will, if it'll keep everyone else safe. She might not care about her own life, but we think she doesn't want Kirika to get hurt.
-[x]What would your father say if this was what his daughter was doing? You're not saving the world by doing this, Oriko. You're not even living up to your father's legacy. You're just another delusional magical girl.
 
Hey, Ugo, recall that Kirika's Wish didn't necessarily change her mind. And it certainly wasn't hidden. Kirika told us point-blank that Oriko was there for it.
 
Mecrazyfang said:
Hey, Ugo, recall that Kirika's Wish didn't necessarily change her mind. And it certainly wasn't hidden. Kirika told us point-blank that Oriko was there for it.
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I did remember, which is why we're asking about it. And we know for a fact that Kirika's mind was affected by it. We're demanding Oriko's perspective on Kirika's wish, as well as twisting the knife a bit emotionally.
 
Ugolino said:
I did remember, which is why we're asking about it. And we know for a fact that Kirika's mind was affected by it. We're demanding Oriko's perspective on Kirika's wish, as well as twisting the knife a bit emotionally.
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She knows about the wish. She was there. I really don't think she's bothered by it - she had her chance to convince Kirika not to do it. I'm really not grasping your logic here.

Your write-in is a lot more serious and detailed than mine, but that line about Kirika bothers the hell out of me. Events are different from Canon. Kirika's wish is different, and Oriko's seems to be as well. There is no reason we should even consider using her Canon weak-point.
 
Mecrazyfang said:
She knows about the wish. She was there. I really don't think she's bothered by it - she had her chance to convince Kirika not to do it. I'm really not grasping your logic here.

Your write-in is a lot more serious and detailed than mine, but that line about Kirika bothers the hell out of me. Events are different from Canon. Kirika's wish is different, and Oriko's seems to be as well. There is no reason we should even consider using her Canon weak-point.
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She's not bothered, but we need to know why. If she doesn't care about Kirika except as a tool, then our interrogation's pretty much doomed and we need to know that early. Basically, I agree on the inconsistencies, but we need to push that button to see what her response is. We know she knows about the wish, we just don't know what her reaction to it was.
 
Ugolino said:
She's not bothered, but we need to know why. If she doesn't care about Kirika except as a tool, then our interrogation's pretty much doomed and we need to know that early. Basically, I agree on the inconsistencies, but we need to push that button to see what her response is. We know she knows about the wish, we just don't know what her reaction to it was.
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You're trying to push a button that's been ripped out of the console.

Can you try, instead, maybe "Why was Kirika's wish different?"

This also lets us not say, but hint that we know more than her. If she refuses to explain, we refuse to let a mass-murderer live, tell her she's guilty of letting a witch loose in a classroom full of students, and bring down the hammer.
 
Mecrazyfang said:
You're trying to push a button that's been ripped out of the console.

Can you try, instead, maybe "Why was Kirika's wish different?"

This also lets us not say, but hint that we know more than her. If she refuses to explain, we refuse to let a mass-murderer live, tell her she's guilty of letting a witch loose in a classroom full of students, and bring down the hammer.
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We don't know that.

She already knows that we know and even if she didn't, everyone in this conversation is going to keep quiet about it one way or the other. And she didn't do that in this timeline, which means if we do kill her, we're doing it because of what she might do rather than what she's done so far.
 
Firnagzen said:
Elsewhere.

"I want to learn the meaning of my life! This is my wish. This is my prayer. Fulfill it, Kyuubey!"
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Mecrazyfang said:
Kirika's wish is different, and Oriko's seems to be as well.
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It looks like the wishes were the same, honestly. Going by the post with Oriko's wish, Oriko made the "meaning of life" wish just like in canon. She saw something instead of Gretchen blowing shit up, and fixated on saving the world from that. Kirika's "change myself for Oriko" wish would likely produce something like the results we've seen, given Oriko's different fixation. Same wishes, different results because of LOLBUTTERFLIES.

We should still ask about the exact wording for Kirika's wish though. One word could make a hell of a lot of difference.
 
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Okay, let me try to wrap my head around your position-

Nope. I got nothing.

Oriko has no possible way to be aware of our foreknowledge. She doesn't seem to be aware of our future much at all.

My point there was that if she can fry us with a mine for shit she thinks will happen, we can crush her skull for shit she did in another timeline and has the mentality to repeat. Neither is a good justification, but the parallel is useful. We understand her predicament. We're there right now. So is Homura. We're trying to be the better person, and if she doesn't give us an opening to do so, we're left with 'lolnope the precog'.

I am fine with the rest of your write-in, Ugo. But change the goddamn line about Kirika. Just the one damned thing. Either we play the 'I know what you're capable of in another reality' card heavily, or not at all. We can't just throw that out there, on the off chance she knows.

It could very well be the reason she can't plan for us. It could be our only advantage.
 
I'll note Oriko claims to know our goals and motivations better than we did (and given how scatterbrained Sabrina is, that's actually believable). And we're not going to be Oriko Mk 2. Also, we found out about Kirika's wish from Kyubey and Kirka herself and Oriko already knows we knew about her despite having no way to at that time. We're not going to hold anything back in this conversation anyway, because one way or another, no one here's talking about it afterwards.

Kirika's less about another reality and more about this Oriko's mentality. At this point, a worst case scenario is really "we crush her gem, regretfully kill Kirika as well because her wish means she'd be a irredeemable threat after Oriko's dead, and start trying to explain to Mami". I don't like the Murderface solution but it is our emergency fallback option. When we have her gem in hand, any other advantages start to seem irrelevant.
 
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Mecrazyfang said:
You're trying to push a button that's been ripped out of the console.

Can you try, instead, maybe "Why was Kirika's wish different?"

This also lets us not say, but hint that we know more than her. If she refuses to explain, we refuse to let a mass-murderer live, tell her she's guilty of letting a witch loose in a classroom full of students, and bring down the hammer.
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That alternative may not work. While Oriko's clairvoyance may make her aware of Homura's past and the existence of other timelines, I'm confident she doesn't know the specifics of what happened in them.

I'm fine with the original Kirika line simply because it's a question that needs answering. Its usefulness as ammo against Oriko is debatable but further information can't hurt.

Edit: oh yeah, forgot to vote.

[X] Ugolino
 
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NormalSightMan said:
That alternative may not work. While Oriko's clairvoyance may make her aware of Homura's past and the existence of other timelines, I'm confident she doesn't know the specifics of what happened in them.

I'm fine with the original Kirika line simply because it's a question that needs answering. Its usefulness as ammo against Oriko is debatable but further information can't hurt.
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The main purpose is to get information, yeah. Ammo against Oriko is just as part of the larger attempt rather than the reason we asked.
 
Ugolino said:
More interestingly...is Oriko okay with that, given that her canon reaction was a horrified breakdown?
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She seems fine enough. Unless Kirika's wish mind wammy'd her too. Or the alternative was worse.

I mean, if the option existed to use a precognitive power for free with the only concern being that you had to visit a spacy ditz and her fussy roommate every once in a while... there would have to be a damn good reason why you'd suddenly start behaving in a way that would deliberately get said ditz, roomie, and the local complete hax meguca (all given effectively infinite power) on your case in a lethal sense.

I'm starting to think it has less to do with what Sabrina wants to do and more about what she will do at some point, voices in her head or no. Or who she is. Or what.

...Who was Sabrina before we were?
 
Loops said:
She seems fine enough. Unless Kirika's wish mind wammy'd her too. Or the alternative was worse.

I mean, if the option existed to use a precognitive power for free with the only concern being that you had to visit a spacy ditz and her fussy roommate every once in a while... there would have to be a damn good reason why you'd suddenly start behaving in a way that would deliberately get said ditz, roomie, and the local complete hax meguca (all given effectively infinite power) on your case in a lethal sense.

I'm starting to think it has less to do with what Sabrina wants to do and more about what she will do at some point, voices in her head or no. Or who she is. Or what.

...Who was Sabrina before we were?
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Her being absolutely fine with it (as opposed to regretful necessity) is extremely strange.

When the precog goes crazy, it is generally a very good idea to find out why, yes.
 
Oh my... such vote wall text...

[] Do a proper repair
- []We need....

Ah Fuck it, not gonna copy that.

[x] Ugolino
 
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