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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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@Ugolino : Main complaint I'd have about that vote is that we said we had things we needed to talk to her about in the morning, and if she just heads off to school we aren't giving any hint that that meant anything.

If she is going to school, and we don't want to take the time to talk with her about it beforehand (how much time is there between when we get up and when she would head out, anyway?), we should at least let her know that there's more discussion to be had at a later time.

At the same time, I would really prefer to at least cover what you put down for the discussion before she heads to school. It's not a long talk if we're not actually delving into the secrets, but it also means that it's something she has all day to think about.
 
@Onmur
Well honestly, there are so many different people with so many different backgrounds and experiences that voting is, has been, and always will be a small clusterfuck.
 
"I'm sorry, Mami," you say softly.

"What for, Sabrina?" Mami asks, equally softly. She sounds puzzled.

"For..." you swallow. "Mami, I haven't been very considerate to you at all. I haven't... I've been an awful person, Mami, to you. To everyone around me, but you the most of all. I'm sorry."

"What?" Mami asks, face dimly lit by the faint light glowing from the suburbs below. "I don't... you're not an awful person, Sabrina!"

"No, I-" you squeeze your eyes shut in pain. "I run roughshod over everyone's opinions. I assume that my way is better, and I force everyone to follow along because... because I have the power to."

"Sabrina, I-"

You shake your head, and Mami falls silent. "Mami, you didn't want to get involved in the war. You thought Oriko might be lying. And here we are anyway. I, I. I tell you I'll be safe. That I'll be careful. Then I immediately run out into danger, and I get hurt and I."

"Sabrina..." Mami says, trailing off. "Sabrina, you're being silly."

"Mami, I. Every time you tell me not to do something. You, I. I ignore it, and I can't imagine it's easy to see me go into all these, these messes," you say. You look down at your hands, fisted in your lap, tears beginning to slide down your face as if to replace the rain you're leaving behind.

A pale hand reaches across your blurred vision, and gently takes one of your hands. Mami smooths your hand out, and holds it between both of hers.

"Sabrina," she says gently. "You wouldn't be you if you didn't do what you thought was the right thing. I'm sorry for asking that you stop. Because you care, Sabrina, and that's nothing to be ashamed of."

Even if it hurts me, you fill in the words.

You swallow. "I'm sorry, Mami," you mutter thickly. "I'm... I'm sorry."

"Don't be," she says.

But you are.
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Damnit, Sabrina. The right response would have been
"I'm not ashamed that I care. I'm ashamed for how I care. I... people like you, Mami, prove that it's possible to care without dominating everyone we care about. I want to be like that."
 
Onmur said:
About that, we need to decide how we're going to phrase it, because if we do it wrong, we'll end up dancing around the witch land mine.

We can confess we threatened Kirika with a fate worse than death as a way to threaten Oriko. What fate worse than death was that? Torture? In what form? What could be so bad that Oriko, who was completely OK with both Oriko and Kirika dying, would be terrified enough to comply with our demands?

EDIT: Oh my god. OK. Oriko & Kirika. O & K. Can we call Oriko and Kirika "OK"?
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Say we threatened to kill Kirika. That's pretty much the case.

@Onmur
Sabrina's maybe abusing her power.
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To stop the war, rein in Sendai, and offer cleansing? I don't think that's the case at all.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Damnit, Sabrina. The right response would have been
"I'm not ashamed that I care. I'm ashamed for how I care. I... people like you, Mami, prove that it's possible to care without dominating everyone we care about. I want to be like that."
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But that's not the dialogue Firn went with, so...

Kinematics said:
@Ugolino : Main complaint I'd have about that vote is that we said we had things we needed to talk to her about in the morning, and if she just heads off to school we aren't giving any hint that that meant anything.

If she is going to school, and we don't want to take the time to talk with her about it beforehand (how much time is there between when we get up and when she would head out, anyway?), we should at least let her know that there's more discussion to be had at a later time.

At the same time, I would really prefer to at least cover what you put down for the discussion before she heads to school. It's not a long talk if we're not actually delving into the secrets, but it also means that it's something she has all day to think about.
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Adding a line about talking about it later if she doesn't want to do it now

[x]Wake up earlier than usual.
-[x]Prepare an eastern breakfast.
[x]Ask her what she'd like to do. Does she want to go to school today? Ask to have the talk later today if she does.
[x]Ping and update Homura once Mami decides
[x]If Mami didn't go to school
-[x]There are things we haven't told her yet. Some of them aren't just ours to tell, some of them we're not too sure about ourselves, and some of them we're not even sure how to talk about. We were too scared to tell her a lot of this, and we still are. But she deserves to know all of it, and we promise that we will tell her everything. We can start now with what we can, if she wants.
 
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To be fair, it is not like we were doing great on specifying the apology - nay, in fact I recall several voters went against specification on it in words, far more than wanted to specify in the end. Firn did nothing wrong.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I can't possibly place any blame on the author. This is a problem with Sabrina. One we're fixing right now.
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Except that your reading of the character is going to give her a guilt complex over taking action. When her character to date has been based on taking action. There's more of a problem with that than any problem with Sabrina.

That line would make Sabrina retroactively see all of her positive character interactions in terms of dominating the other party. Not only is that not accurate, it's not useful or good for Mami either. The Firn line was perfectly fine for the character- and the character's reactions were fine.
 
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Poor Sabrina. :(

Anyone else think we're being to hard on her? I mean, we should probably know better. But IC, she's just a good-hearted teenaged amnesic with too much power and expectations in herself, who's trying really hard to get the golden ending for everyone and trying to be Heroic Good in a world that really punishes anyone who tries.
 
Agent Whiskers said:
Poor Sabrina. :(

Anyone else think we're being to hard on her? I mean, we should probably know better. But IC, she's just a good-hearted teenaged amnesic with too much power and expectations in herself, who's trying really hard to get the golden ending for everyone and trying to be Heroic Good in a world that really punishes anyone who tries.
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She's us. The thread. We're being hard on ourselves.
 
@Agent Whiskers: I honestly view her as "mass of meta-gaming concepts" rather than my usual 'advisory role to a quest character' and by extension we vote for the thread rather than the character.

As thus, I don't consider there to be IC/OoC separation, not in significant extent.

This is well shown by how Sabrina feels sorry when thread feels sorry without voting for it, for example.
 
Xexilf said:
With this "we still have secrets" i cant help but think it will result in Mami asking if we are a witch.^^
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No, I'm n- Being completely honest I'm almost totally sure... halfway sure that I'm not... Damnit.

Sabrina: "What even is a witch, anyway? Ha ha ha...!"

Mami: "You didn't answer the question."

Kyubey: "A witch is a-" *Gets exploded*

... A miserable little pile of wishes.
 
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'Lement said:
@Agent Whiskers: I honestly view her as "mass of meta-gaming concepts" rather than my usual 'advisory role to a quest character' and by extension we vote for the thread rather than the character.

As thus, I don't consider there to be IC/OoC separation, not in significant extent.

This is well shown by how Sabrina feels sorry when thread feels sorry without voting for it, for example.
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Again, I prefer to view her as a character with a bunch of unexplainable knowledge (her thought processes aren't any more fractured than the average persons). It makes our interpersonal relations (and especially her friendship with Mami) a lot less squicky.
 
I see we're waking up 'earlier than usual'. Let's see if we can push thorugh the sleepiness with magic?
 
Sabrina might have started as a mass of metaknowledge, but she adquired an humanity. She's as human as any of us now.

It just happened.

[x] Ugolino
 
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Oh gods, the self flagellating in this thread is fucking palpable. Can't we like, lay off the negativity abit? It was an interesting direction to take Sabrina at one point, but now it's starting to seriously impacting my enjoyment of this thread.
 
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Hm, votecrafting is a thing. And there is only one vote up right now *crafts*

[X] Wake up earlier than usual.
-[X] Prepare an eastern breakfast.
[X] There are things we haven't told her yet. Some of them aren't just ours to tell, some of them we're not too sure about ourselves, and some of them we're not even sure how to talk about. We were too scared to tell her a lot of this, and we still are. But she deserves to know, and we promise that we will tell her.
[X] If Mami goes to school seek out a witch for science.

Not really too comfortable with Ugolino's "We can start now with what we can, if she wants." atm. But more imporantly, Mami needs the normalcy and non-Sabrina interaction of school.

@Gadjo: Do you have something against hiveminds?

I don't really see a problem, but then again interpersonal relationships aren't at the forefront when I think "PMAS".
 
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'Lement said:
@Gadjo: Do you have something against hiveminds?

I don't really see a problem, but then again interpersonal relationships aren't at the forefront when I think "PMAS".
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We are running around trying to save everyone by befriending them, but yeah, the hivemind thing just doesn't seem to fit. Though it would be amusing for the entity that finally destroys Kyubey to be another hivemind.

Also, why are we seeking out a witch? We should be visiting Homura, Oriko, or conducting science at the moment. We can go after witches if we see an opportunity, but let's not waste time.
 
'Lement said:
Hm, votecrafting is a thing. And there is only one vote up right now *crafts*

[X] Wake up earlier than usual.
-[X] Prepare an eastern breakfast.
[X] There are things we haven't told her yet. Some of them aren't just ours to tell, some of them we're not too sure about ourselves, and some of them we're not even sure how to talk about. We were too scared to tell her a lot of this, and we still are. But she deserves to know, and we promise that we will tell her.
[X] When Mami goes to school seek out a witch.

Not really too comfortable with Ugolino's "We can start now with what we can, if she wants." atm. But more imporantly, Mami needs the normalcy and non-Sabrina interaction of school.
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Should we not bother seeing if she's okay at all and just assume she's going to school? Because that version ASSUMES she's just going to go. Mami does not need the pressure and questions from school right now, but if she wants to go, then we shouldn't stop her. I'd rather not just forget to ask entirely though.

And if she goes to school, we have other priorities than witch hunting- dealing with our anomalous grief seed for starters, and everything from Oriko to Kyoko over hunting another Witch first thing.
 
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