Huge risk and not one to try when we're trying to kill the main antagonist unless we're out of choices. Not an inherently bad idea, but not the time or place.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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True. Then I believe the best plan is to locate Kirika and Oriko from a distance and watch Kirika for any movements as we tie up Oriko and take a hold of her Soul Gem before doing the same to Kirika before engaging in any dialogues with Homura ready for timestops if needed.
And the backup plan for Oriko counter future crazy plan stuff is SUDDENLY I CHOOSE YOU SB-WITCHMON!
Muramasa
Best Girl
Mami isn't aware of the Lich Bomb. Not a good move.
Muramasa
Best Girl
That would require her to be actively using her power over long periods, which would force her to witch. Also Sabrina should be able to detect her grief. That should fall outside of the antimagic.
We can claim it'll stop them from doing magic and/or claim instead that the sudden shock of losing their magic by having the gem taken too far away from them knocks Puella out.
...Yeah, no, if Kyubey doesn't step in at that point, he's not doing his job.
There's a way for us to defuse the LichBomb in that situation, but it will be an issue if we tried that.
And Kirika would flip out.
Alright I'm going to think way outside the box here, and suggest that we try and move both of them into a boat on the ocean during one very long timestop. That way it'll be a lot harder to avoid negotiations and talking and stuff. With Homura providing overwatch from a battleship or something.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So, what, are we going to wait for Kirika to die of old age?
Roll a d100 without disclosing the result to Firnagzen and attack in that many updates?
What do you intend to do between now and later other than get another ally for Kirika to counter?
Lexica
Persevere
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't think that's worth the wasted time. Giving Oriko any amount of time to prepare is bad. If we do this, we should do it immediately, without ever leaving time stop.
Kirika may or may not be able to no-sell the timestop. I'm of the opinion that it would make zero sense, but then again, neither does timestop in the first place.
More importantly, stealth is Homura's single biggest weakness. She will go literally insane long before she searches the entirety of Mitakihara for Oriko, and it is entirely plausible for her to use her precog to know exactly when to hide.
.. well, not totally harmless? It's possible to press her hard enough that she can't set up enough defenses up beforehand, because they're mutually exclusive (like having Kirika in two places). But not that dangerous overall.
More importantly, stealth is Homura's single biggest weakness. She will go literally insane long before she searches the entirety of Mitakihara for Oriko, and it is entirely plausible for her to use her precog to know exactly when to hide.
Wrong. We've already given her a week to prepare, and that's basically all Fir needs to say "yeah, she totally saw this coming and is nowhere to be found." Giving her extra time at this point is ...
.. well, not totally harmless? It's possible to press her hard enough that she can't set up enough defenses up beforehand, because they're mutually exclusive (like having Kirika in two places). But not that dangerous overall.
Prepare. Build-up. Learn about Oriko and friends so we have a better idea of what to expect. Hell, tag along with Homura and start handing out pistols for when magic gets nullified. Just...not charging in when we're at best evenly matched and at worst skipping into a disaster.
Muramasa
Best Girl
haha no. Firn has said repeatedly if you give Oriko time to build up, it'll end very badly for us.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So we win when Oriko decides to let us?
If we try and find and gank them in the dead of night with no allies, prep time, or planning beyond "timestop OP", we aren't likely to get anything worthwhile out of the effort.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Homura and Mami?
Muramasa
Best Girl
At the very least we'll see how potent Oriko's precognition really is. We don't know enough about it and we shouldn't leave it as a big unknown. A build up game favors Oriko heavily. Just because Oriko can predict what we can do doesn't mean she can stop it.
Lexica
Persevere
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That depends entirely on how Oriko's precog functions. None of us were planning an attack until we time-stopped after all.
Regardless, the point is a bit moot anyways since we could just search for Kirika in time stop as well before going after Oriko while time is stopped I suppose.
This exactly. Giving the precog more time than we already have is a bad idea because that time will always favor Oriko more than us. What we need to do is attempt to finish this NOW all without ever leaving the time stop.
No more paranoia, no more worrying about what ifs. Doing that only hurts us more against Oriko.
AGAIN, there isn't a situation short of an almost literal miracle where prep time favors us over Oriko. Giving her even more time than we already have makes no sense as a strategy if we want to accomplish anything.
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Blaaaugh.
Ultimately, we've got to find the limits of Oriko's power. If she already knows how this month is going to go, this really is impossible. Any plan has weakpoints, and none of us are clever enough to make a true Xanatos Gambit on that scale.
No. We're going to have to gamble on her not being able to see that clearly, that far. We'll have to trick her into moving herself into a position three moves from checkmate, as it were.
... or, manage to come up with that Xanatos Gambit, where literally every possible option Oriko path leads to us winning. Which would be cool, but, uh, is hard. >.<
Honestly, her being ready for us would just show common sense rather than her precog strength- this'd be more useful to see if she does have allies.
We are going to have a plan for when it backfires on us, right? Let's go facetank the main antagonist then.
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We can use timestop for that too, if it's that important.
Okay, here, how's this as an option.
Go burn Oriko's house down.
No, seriously. She's still human(-ish), she's going to be really sad if she doesn't have a place to sleep. She can try to sneak into an apartment or something - but again, that's going to take time and effort and busywork and make things more difficult for her.
Meanwhile, go tell Homura, privately, that if Oriko goes to live with Kirika, burn her house down, from >100m in timestop, innocent civilians be damned. This is kind of grey morally, but since Homura really will do it if we convince her, Oriko should avoid that option like the plague (since it doesn't get her anything and kills off Kirika's parents, and puts her at risk.)
There. No real way for Oriko do anything about that if we stay in timestop, and we've done some damage to her, without having to track her down or risk an ambush or anything.
(Though we should totally expect the ground to be MADE OF BOMBS wherever we come out of timestop.)
Go burn Oriko's house down.
No, seriously. She's still human(-ish), she's going to be really sad if she doesn't have a place to sleep. She can try to sneak into an apartment or something - but again, that's going to take time and effort and busywork and make things more difficult for her.
Meanwhile, go tell Homura, privately, that if Oriko goes to live with Kirika, burn her house down, from >100m in timestop, innocent civilians be damned. This is kind of grey morally, but since Homura really will do it if we convince her, Oriko should avoid that option like the plague (since it doesn't get her anything and kills off Kirika's parents, and puts her at risk.)
There. No real way for Oriko do anything about that if we stay in timestop, and we've done some damage to her, without having to track her down or risk an ambush or anything.
(Though we should totally expect the ground to be MADE OF BOMBS wherever we come out of timestop.)
Lexica
Persevere
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Basically, there's no reason NOT to attack now.
Either we lose because nothing we do matters and Oriko has planned for all of it, we lose because she planned for this scenario in particular, we lose, but gain something because she could only counter us imperfectly, even with precog, or we win.
No matter what, we will learn something about Oriko's powers though, which is always going to be important to us.
@linkhyrule5
Been suggested. It wouldn't work.
a)She has no real attachment to it because that's where her father died.
b)She's a fanatic
c)It invites reprisals.
d)No, we are not burning down Kirika's house- it wouldn't be effective because her brains are scrambled egg set to "Oriko", it'd alienate everyone if they ever found out we were behind it, and her family's more useful alive and on-side if we decide to tell them their daughter's become a magical girl and gone insane.
e)No. There are more effective ways of getting to her.
f)If she lives at her house, we know where she might be. Maybe.
Been suggested. It wouldn't work.
a)She has no real attachment to it because that's where her father died.
b)She's a fanatic
c)It invites reprisals.
d)No, we are not burning down Kirika's house- it wouldn't be effective because her brains are scrambled egg set to "Oriko", it'd alienate everyone if they ever found out we were behind it, and her family's more useful alive and on-side if we decide to tell them their daughter's become a magical girl and gone insane.
e)No. There are more effective ways of getting to her.
f)If she lives at her house, we know where she might be. Maybe.
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