Yeah there's no way that preparation time favors us. A precog always benefits more from preparation time, because they know your preparations before you do so they can selectively counter them or prepare better options than you can.

Fact is none of us are going to come up with an inescapable Xanatos Gambit, especially when Oriko knows the full gambit from the start. It's easy enough to say that we try to keep her on the ropes, but as a precog she's always going to have the advantage in such long term maneuvers.

If we're going to go after Oriko we need to do it right here and now. Even if we fail we learn something.
 
Hey! About the Fan Art, my sister says thanks!

And about the warhammer, she kinda got lazy with it.

And about the Soul Gem being absent: Its there; As a pin in the shape of the logo of SV.
 
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[x] Suggest locating Kirika first so that we can work around the magic canceller. Your grief/magic senses should be up to the task.
[x] Let them hash it out, with the warning that Oriko will probably be ready for us the moment time stop is released. There's a third magical girl probably cooperating with her at this point and who knows what powers she has.
 
[x] Suggest locating Kirika first so that we can work around the magic canceller. Your grief/magic senses should be up to the task.
[x] Let them hash it out, with the warning that Oriko will probably be ready for us the moment time stop is released. There's a third magical girl probably cooperating with her at this point and who knows what powers she has.

To be clear are we going to release the timestop at all? I thought the plan was keep up the timestop and go after Oriko without ever letting it down?
 
[x] Suggest locating Kirika first so that we can work around the magic canceller. Your grief/magic senses should be up to the task.
[x] Let them hash it out, with the warning that Oriko will probably be ready for us the moment time stop is released. There's a third magical girl probably cooperating with her at this point and who knows what powers she has.

To be clear are we going to release the timestop at all? I thought the plan was keep up the timestop and go after Oriko without ever letting it down?

I believe that the timestop has its limits. As seen in episode 6.
 
I believe that the timestop has its limits. As seen in episode 6.
Can't. Mine scene in Ep. 11; I once did a calc that said that it would take, bare minimum, several hours to set all those mines, and there just wasn't enough time to set them in advance - the mines would've been found.

... most GMs usually ignore that in favor of not letting Homura be as broken as she is, though.

(My theory is that she was faking it in Ep. 6, to make it look like she was a teleporter.)
 
Can't. Mine scene in Ep. 11; I once did a calc that said that it would take, bare minimum, several hours to set all those mines, and there just wasn't enough time to set them in advance - the mines would've been found.

... most GMs usually ignore that in favor of not letting Homura be as broken as she is, though.

(My theory is that she was faking it in Ep. 6, to make it look like she was a teleporter.)

Ok... But I'm pretty sure Oriko knows Homura is a Time Master and warned Kirika about it.
 
Oh, so am I. I'm waiting to see how this will go wrong.

(My bet is some combination of "can't find her" + "Kirika hax.")
I'm expecting either that Kirika has a radius around her that when we enter the timestop will fail, or that Kirika is exempt from the timestop.

That doesn't mean we should try though. Every moment we give them to prepare is another advantage for Oriko. A sudden choice like this in response to something she did is our best chance of getting outside her prediction envelope.
 
I'm expecting either that Kirika has a radius around her that when we enter the timestop will fail, or that Kirika is exempt from the timestop.

I would call utter BS on the latter and will instantly drop this Quest if it happens. It's one thing for it to cancel the timestop, at least you can sort of justify it as a some passive effect that Homura entered. But the timestop affects Homura, not Kirika; there's nothing to be exempt from.

(Yes, I know Lestaki did it. I dropped that fic instantly too >.< )
 
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I would call utter BS on the latter and will instantly drop this Quest if it happens. It's one thing for it to cancel the timestop, at least you can sort of justify it as a some passive effect that Homura entered. But the timestop affects Homura, not Kirika; there's nothing to be exempt from.

(Yes, I know Lestaki did it. I dropped that fic instantly too >.< )
It'd be sorta justifiable if Kirika had her canon powerset and Homura's timestop were actually just celerity-style 'acceleration so extreme that it looks like it's stopping time'. As it stands, there's no obvious reason Kirika would be immune.
(So the wheels are going to find some other way to come off). :tongue:
 
....I can see why many PMMM QM refuse to do a precog antagonist, no matter what the players do its all for-fucking-nothing but tears and them dancing to their tones because if they don't soo many more will die because of them....I'm having Witch Quest flashbacks if you can't tell.
Homura can create smallish wards which shutdown Oriko precog for anything inside them. Oriko's powers are defeatable.
 
Homura can create smallish wards which shutdown Oriko precog for anything inside them. Oriko's powers are defeatable.
If you're referring to that ward she set up in the fifth chapter, that was to guard against familiars. Homura was only vaguely aware that Oriko existed at that point, let alone that she was a precog.
 
Said ward prevented Oriko from sensing Madoka, and it was only after Madoka stepped out of that ward that Oriko near-instantly sensed her and then killed her.
Not the case. Kyubey is the one who's going "I found Madoka" in that scene. He refers to the fact that Oriko's attempts to divert his attention have been futile, as have been Homura's efforts to act as a guardian.

 
As a note, I don't get how Kirika could shut down the Timestop since said power works in between instants according to an earlier post, unless she had her ability up and running the moment the fire started. Also, it seems to me that Precognition is like any other sense, in that we could find some way of overloading it by giving her so many different paths that she has to either stop seeing to give her mind a break or force her to keep seeing, thus using up her magic.

There's something else that bothers me:
"I want to learn the meaning of my life! This is my wish. This is my prayer. Fulfill it, Kyuubey!"

Could it be that her Precognition has to involve her in some way or another, thus by making her the focus of our plans, we're basically triggering her ability? Also, how does this Wish invoke precognition? The meaning of one's life should not mean what the future holds, it should be what her purpose is in the grand scheme of things...her precognition would only be relevant to the wish if she could see what she would end up contributing to the life of every person she meets on the street.

She might not be omniscient at all, just acting like it, and all she's doing is fulfilling her supposed 'role' in respects to us...and if this Oriko had managed to change Kirika's wish, there must be must something different. Especially since Kirika's anti-magic aura means that Oriko can't use her Precognition around her when she gets going. It might be a trap, but that trap could be one that Oriko wants to talk and dictate terms.

However, there is a counter for the precog and anti-magic, simply drop in out of Timestop, carrying enough grief to witch out EVERYONE in the area and affect a lot of civilians around the meeting point. Oriko would see it coming when we drop and our power is nullified, she might panic, she might not, and can't kill us because we are the only ones who can control that grief. Witch Seeds could absorb it yeah, but enough grief to witchout healthy Puella would be more than enough to resurrect Witches, so that's still more Witches and Witch Barriers to deal with in one area. Only one way to stop it, and that's to retract the anti-magic aura, that happens and the grief is already out, ready to be manipulated.

Long story short, ALWAYS make it a point to have every conflict with us be an M.A.D. situation, that is unless if she thinks that she could complete whatever mission she's on from the grave that is.


Anyways, that's my two cents, now to the vote.

[x] Search for Oriko in Timestop, and only search for her. Once found then:
- [x] If with Kirika, test for aura with Grief Cloud.
-- [x] If effective through Timestop, then create Grief Puppets to communicate with them, while you are out of range.
-- [x] If not effective through Timestop, then create lots of grief marbles and step out of timestop to talk with Oriko in an M.A.D. situation.
--- [x] Have Mami and Homura spread out in surrounding buildings to keep oversight over the show. Have Homura shift every so often to a new vantage point...give her all our Grief Seeds so we can focus on the meeting.
- [x] If not with Kirika, create Grief Puppet, leave area, and then when hidden, use it to communicate with Oriko. Keep her focused on you as you plan and discard different plans to take her out in the next ten minutes.
-- [x] Have Homura and Mami look for Kirika and any other Magic Girl in Timestop.

[x] When communicating with Oriko:
- [x] Keep her from taking the initiative, keep bombarding with questions on what the hell she just pulled.
-- [x] Be angry, but calm. Show her you mean business.
- [x] Every time she tries to change the topic, LOUDLY bring her back to the discussion at hand, with either an overt demonstration of your power, a close bullet from either Mami or Homura, or a loud "anyways, back to the point".
 
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We probably can't create a Grief Puppet yet, though calling her out on her little adventure is a good idea.

And seriously? While going for a walking griefbomb is a decent idea for neutralizing Oriko tricks in a "she's holding a thermal detonator" kind of way- we do not need to go for overkill that'd kill everyone else in the area. Just us, Oriko, and enough grief to hit her gem before she can meguca-speed away would do the trick just as well without pointless collateral. We are not witching out everyone in the same block or so as Oriko just to be sure we get her. I mean why would you even suggest that. o_O
 
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However, there is a counter for the precog and anti-magic, simply drop in out of Timestop, carrying enough grief to witch out EVERYONE in the area and affect a lot of civilians around the meeting point. Oriko would see it coming when we drop and our power is nullified, she might panic, she might not, and can't kill us because we are the only ones who can control that grief. Witch Seeds could absorb it yeah, but enough grief to witchout healthy Puella would be more than enough to resurrect Witches, so that's still more Witches and Witch Barriers to deal with in one area. Only one way to stop it, and that's to retract the anti-magic aura, that happens and the grief is already out, ready to be manipulated.
 
Food for thought that may or may not be relevant:

Usually, tonight is the night of H.N. Elly's mass suicide. Instead of fighting Elly, though, we fought Suleika. We then got sidetracked by the fire at the Miki residence, and now we're planning to hunt Oriko down. Is it feasible that part of Oriko's plan is for the suicide to take place? She made it more likely for us to ignore it since the only named character at risk is now in the hospital. I don't know what kind of benefit Oriko could gain from a mass suicide, but all her actions have at least inadvertently encouraged it.
 
Food for thought that may or may not be relevant:

Usually, tonight is the night of H.N. Elly's mass suicide. Instead of fighting Elly, though, we fought Suleika. We then got sidetracked by the fire at the Miki residence, and now we're planning to hunt Oriko down. Is it feasible that part of Oriko's plan is for the suicide to take place? She made it more likely for us to ignore it since the only named character at risk is now in the hospital. I don't know what kind of benefit Oriko could gain from a mass suicide, but all her actions have at least inadvertently encouraged it.
...Point. We've been meaning to track it down, and I think the plan was to deal with it before the Mikifire. We...probably need to look into that afterwards, or ask Homura to.
 
And seriously? While going for a walking griefbomb is a decent idea for neutralizing Oriko tricks in a "she's holding a thermal detonator" kind of way- we do not need to go for overkill that'd kill everyone else in the area. Just us, Oriko, and enough grief to hit her gem before she can meguca-speed away would do the trick just as well without pointless collateral. We are not witching out everyone in the same block or so as Oriko just to be sure we get her. I mean why would you even suggest that. o_O

*sweatdrop*

Okay, reread that bit, and I gotta admit...it was extreme, I apologise for that and will try to dial it back from here onwards.
 
It could work beatifully, but anyone sans maybe Homura wouldn't appreciate the idea. Pragmatism is wonderful thing, isn't it?
It also depends on Oriko having knowledge of it. The plan could fail catastrophically if Oriko's precognition was limited in a way that kept her from finding out about it, and since we don't know what the limits of her power are, it'd be stupid to bet our life (and the planet's, since Madoka would inevitably contract with Homura and Mami gone) on her knowing.
 
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