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Paths of Civilization

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[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)

Still not going to get all that involved in this thread. Suffice it to say that Cwriid, despite having heroic Diplo and Martial stats, has shown a remarkable lack of willingness to compromise and cooperate with the authorities. I find it ironic that some people in this thread claim that it's the "oligarchs" that are reactionary when it really is quite the opposite. Cwriid is leading a reactionary faction which aims to return to the old taxation system while also adopting a new land distribution system that'll cause long-term inequality.
 
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Versharl said:
[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)

Still not going to get all that involved in this thread. Suffice it to say that Cwriid, despite being a having heroic Diplo and Martial stats, has shown a remarkable lack of willingness to compromise and cooperate with the authorities. I find it ironic that some people in this thread claim that it's the "oligarchs" that are reactionary when it really is quite the opposite. Cwriid is leading a reactionary faction which aims to return to the old taxation system while also adopting a new land distribution system that'll cause long-term inequality.
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Well, it is true that the Ymrri government is very ambitious, with a progressive and complex taxation system and The Law megaproject.
Adhoc vote count started by tenchifew on Apr 29, 2017 at 4:22 AM, finished with 24485 posts and 83 votes.
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Versharl said:
I find it ironic that some people in this thread claim that it's the "oligarchs" that are reactionary when it really is quite the opposite. Cwriid is leading a reactionary faction which aims to return to the old taxation system while also adopting a new land distribution system that'll cause long-term inequality.
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In fact, his tax reform ideas are literally the opposite of the ones the administration picked(no reform on production taxes, reform land to be hereditary). Probably on the basis that the chiefs suck so the direct opposite is 'naturally' going to be super effective in the name of simplicity.

Though I realize he invented the Stone Age Habsburg Strategy of "if power is spread across a limited number of families, then I just need to marry them all, so power will be mine"
 
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veekie said:
In fact, his tax reform ideas are literally the opposite of the ones the administration picked(no reform on production taxes, reform land to be hereditary). Probably on the basis that the chiefs suck so the direct opposite is 'naturally' going to be super effective in the name of simplicity.
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I do wonder why the heck we decided to implement the taxation system all at once rather than....doing it one settlement at a time.
 
Creed's movement is the opposite of what our civ stands for. He is already on his last legs; it isn't worth undoing the work of 2-3 generations just to appease him. Plus after his death his "province" is going to generate a full fledged landowning nobility, probably made of his many children. I am sure that would go very well with the ordinary people. :evil:

We should just ride out this turn and let the old warhorse die. We can deal with his children in time.
 
godofsmallthings said:
Creed's movement is the opposite of what our civ stands for. He is already on his last legs; it isn't worth undoing the work of 2-3 generations just to appease him. Plus after his death his "province" is going to generate a full fledged landowning nobility, probably made of his many children. I am sure that would go very well with the ordinary people. :evil:

We should just ride out this turn and let the old warhorse die. We can deal with his children in time.
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Eh..the next batch of nomad raids will wipe them out or absorb them anyway.
 
I like how we are feasting on the carrion of kingdoms far away. Hopefully, we'll get more fishermen and sailors and boats out of this. War is good for us, when we have the stability to pay for it.

(And that's why I won't stick ourselves into the lowlands)
 
DragonParadox said:
You know what would be funny? Rolling for loss of stability for snubbing him and then having The Greater Good fire thus gaining stability.
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The Dream!

Anyways, what do people say about taking [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice and [Secondary] Establish Annual Festival next turn?

It's been shown from the turn previous that we can help establish festivals to teach people, and while the law will fix a lot of confusion, we'll still need the common person to learn it. As such, I'd like to establish as many festivals as we can, which will likely be centered around learning The Law. The set of actions also has been noted to give us the same amount of stability as a [Main] Grand Sacrifice and at the same cost, so I think it's really in our best interest to do this.
 
bluefur87 said:
The Dream!

Anyways, what do people say about taking [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice and [Secondary] Establish Annual Festival next turn?

It's been shown from the turn previous that we can help establish festivals to teach people, and while the law will fix a lot of confusion, we'll still need the common person to learn it. As such, I'd like to establish as many festivals as we can, which will likely be centered around learning The Law. The set of actions also has been noted to give us the same amount of stability as a [Main] Grand Sacrifice and at the same cost, so I think it's really in our best interest to do this.
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We have our last Festival slot.

Either use it as Main on an important occasion or save it for an emergency when we don't have the Economy margin to Grand Sacrifice.
If you wanted a full Stability turn then just use Main Sacrifice again. It costs the same.
 
veekie said:
We have our last Festival slot.

Either use it as Main on an important occasion or save it for an emergency when we don't have the Economy margin to Grand Sacrifice.
If you wanted a full Stability turn then just use Main Sacrifice again. It costs the same.
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The 4 festivals is a theory. The last one happened one lunar cycle after the harvest festival, which highly suggests we can get at least one for each lunar cycle. This should mean at least 12 total, of which we've used 3.
Academia Nut said:
Combined with a new little festival about a moon after the main harvest festival to celebrate having enough for the off-seasons and thus a means to gather and speak of the laws and how to actually fulfill them.
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At the very least we should have a festival combined with finishing The Law since it will, you know, act as a yearly celebration in line with the law that would allow our people to be updated on a yearly basis as to what the current laws are. That's incredibly important for this working and definitely the best way to spread information about the laws.

Edit: It's quite likely that study stars has been increasing our number of festival slots.
 
Secondary sacrifice is a weak choice, it completely nullifies the festival's built-in efficiency. I'd rather get the festival and go for something that boosts our stats/tries to further fix our crisis problems instead, and then we can go Grand Sacrifice again next turn.

Honestly though I think it's safest to just do a repeat of last turn and save the festival slot. Taxmas is a lot like Law Day, so I don't see a narrative need to do it.

Edit: spending it as an experiment on 4x festival could be very interesting once we're out of the crisis.
 
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notgreat said:
Secondary sacrifice is a weak choice, it completely nullifies the festival's built-in efficiency. I'd rather get the festival and go for something that boosts our stats/tries to further fix our crisis problems instead, and then we can go Grand Sacrifice again next turn.

Honestly though I think it's safest to just do a repeat of last turn and save the festival slot. Taxmas is a lot like Law Day, so I don't see a narrative need to do it.

Edit: spending it as an experiment on 4x festival could be very interesting once we're out of the crisis.
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Taxes and laws are both really complicated subjects though. Having a festival means we can gather everyone around with a shaman reading off the laws and teaching people how to read the laws themselves. Thus we gain literacy and competency with the laws being increased.

I won't be super hung up by us not taking a festival next turn, though I think it's the right thing to do, but I do insist on making Law Day.

Think of it this way, Taxmas teaches math. Law Day teaches reading.

Kiba said:
Truely, the Ymrri is a bizarre people. They have an entire festival dedicated to telling The Law.
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Not yet, but I hope!
 
bluefur87 said:
The 4 festivals is a theory. The last one happened one lunar cycle after the harvest festival, which highly suggests we can get at least one for each lunar cycle. This should mean at least 12 total, of which we've used 3.
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It is a theory strongly supported by the recent rewording of the festival action, clarifying that Taxmas is indeed a winter/off-season holiday.
 
[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
 
We really should just do another

Main The law
Main Grand Sacrifice
Kick The law

that way on the last turn we will be able to deal with whatever requirements are unfinished yet and will leave us at Stab 1 for the mid turn.
 
bluefur87 said:
The 4 festivals is a theory. The last one happened one lunar cycle after the harvest festival, which highly suggests we can get at least one for each lunar cycle. This should mean at least 12 total, of which we've used 3.
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Last one.
Academia Nut said:
Establish Annual Festival - A yearly harvest festival and a planting festival brings entertainment and stability by reminding people of the good things in life, and a winter festival helps give thanks for the goodness that taxes bring, so what might a summer festival bring?
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
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Likely something like:
Harvest - Reminds people of the good things in life, like having lots of food, having safety and harmony.
Planting - Teaches people how to plant, sow and work the earth.
Winter - Teaches people how to understand and pay taxes.
 
veekie said:
Last one.

Likely something like:
Harvest - Reminds people of the good things in life, like having lots of food, having safety and harmony.
Planting - Teaches people how to plant, sow and work the earth.
Winter - Teaches people how to understand and pay taxes.
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Well, if we really do only have one more festival, and it looks like we do, I'd much prefer it to be one of entertainment if possible?
 
bluefur87 said:
Well, if we really do only have one more festival, and it looks like we do, I'd much prefer it to be one of entertainment if possible?
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Depends on the possible combinations.

Main Art Patronage + Main Festival should promote the arts enormously, that Work of the Third Kind has it's own worthy place in society.
Main New Settlement + Main Festival should be about building homes and breaking new ground.
Main Restore Order + Main Festival should be about Justice and the Wicked.

Etc. We'd get a free one at the end of the Law project probably, so if we take that one it'd be about the importance of obeying the laws.
 
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