Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
You do realize Incompetence means MORE than just ignorance?
Stupidity could just be ignorance, but not incompetence
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Stupidity could just be ignorance, but not incompetence
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
There is no feasible way to guess whether or not the vice of the Big Man will have an effect on a given event. Will it cause the people to despise the trait in leadership? Deliberately pick against it? Will it represent a general trend of incompetence in our rulers rather than the other failings? Perhaps it will affect the project or our retaliatory strike?
Or maybe, perhaps, it only represents this one leader as a general trend to him. Either way, a man with nigh-absolute power will have lasting impacts on how the settlement develops. All failings are dangerous in this regard, but some are worse than others. A person with a trend of general incompetence is likely to spur the electing body to be more stringent with how they elect the next one, whereas a prideful king is all the more likely to wield his power like a dominating spear to enforce inherited legitimacy, which we can generally agree is good for stability but it's a total crapshoot for government administration.
I'm picking based on what I suspect their personal failings to stir in the populace. An idiot will make people reconsider the entire idea, a greedy miser will hoard power for himself, a prideful man will see his seed as superior rulers, and an incompetent man will bumble through his office badly enough that it will be remembered forever as something the electors never wish to see again.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Well I don't want to change government, never mind that were still stone age primitives so its not like were doomed because Monarchy
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Interestingly enough...
(there are compelling arguments that agriculture was developed from previous landscape management practices such as burning forests or grasslands to encourage certain kinds of plants and animals to take up residency)
StellarMonarch
Myrmidon
- Location
- Québec
[X] Organize Settlement
Spread a little thinner...
[X] Path of Warriors
Retaliation and more individualist, so Knights. I'd say Samurai, but turns out they're glorified mercenaries.
[X] Incompetence
I hope we can breed this out more easily.
Spread a little thinner...
[X] Path of Warriors
Retaliation and more individualist, so Knights. I'd say Samurai, but turns out they're glorified mercenaries.
[X] Incompetence
I hope we can breed this out more easily.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
I know, I'm just saying that the big man's failing, especially because AN is being more story-oriented with development than mechanical, is going to have realistic impact in how the civ views the office in the future, or if the big man simply overtakes the office, proudly believing him and his to be better rulers (and at least for the man himself, it may be true).
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
I mean being environmental at this stage... THE STONE AGE is kind of strange. Mostly because Nothing we do will hurt the environment maybe in the later ages it'd make more sense.
- Location
- Hell
They are all shortfalls, but Incompetance can be fixed with experience and effort. Pride causes assumptions and constant compensation, usually of the expensive unnecessary sort. We need someone thinking furher than themselves, even if they are not good at it at the start.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Not always, A meritocracy Exhibits this, Incompetence is mitigatable through experience and effort, but can't be completely over come inleast the incompetence is only DUE to that lack of experience or effort, in most cases it just pure inability.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
The definition of what that video explained was that for basically all of human history, all forests were basically gardens designed and tended by people for their various resources. There's literally nothing environmentalist about it. It is quite possibly one of the largest examples of Human Dominance in the ecosystems in all of history.
That's entirely unorganic and unrealistic. Gamey even; whereas the previous votes have only led us to believe that AN is doing anything but. If our ruler is especially prideful, I would be totally unsurprised if he suddenly declared 'I and my progeny are natural-born rulers and instead of elections you'll just replace me with my eldest son when I die.'
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nahhhhhh, when your survival depends on the environment you get really good at managing it, in your own way. It's just that there's also the accumulation of all sorts of magical reasoning attached to the practices, and a lack of a very broad base of knowledge means that you can get stuck in local equilibria, doing sub-optimal things that you think are the best because you lack information. Also, the motives were entirely about their own survival and prosperity, not for an ideology like modern environmentalism (which can ultimately still be viewed in the light of "I don't want to degrade the environment I live in and that whose survival I depend on").
I mean, like, the Mongols may have had an effect on global temperature due to depopulating so many areas that forests grew back and sucked in CO2. Premodern societies, even hunter-gatherers, can absolutely have an effect on the environment around them, and even in big ways.
- Location
- Hell
That example only works on established political bodies, this one has just been created and thus can't be used as proof of inability when it is more likely of inexperience from having created something completely new whole cloth(to them at least).
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
I mean if your right then whats the point of the other options? I doubt we'd be given a weakness that isn't really a weakness.
- Location
- Las Islas Filipinas
Im not saying it won't have an effect later on. What i mean is that it is only thia leader that will have that failing and that his succesors could be different. Im just saying that what we choose will impact the results of our project and war/diplomacy chpice
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
Well, the harem system could potentially solve that problem!
... What? How does such a decadent system lead to competence? Easy! The sheer number of heirs produced basically self-select by bumping each other off in what basically amounts to a twisted cross between Game of Thrones and Battle Royale!
Helps that every (male) heir gets their own personal and completely trusted advisor, confidante, companion, tutor, and caretaker known simply as "Mommy". Who will also share in all the spoils should you win, and suffer nasty consequences if you lose! Like Death Race!
...Ok, so a harem is like Game of Thrones, Battle Royale, and Death Race! And a sleazy porno (for the king)! ...
Ok, so a harem is like-- Edit: And also a Meritocracy! ... dammit let me start again...
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StellarMonarch
Myrmidon
- Location
- Québec
Viking culture was centred around loot and capturing people. Could still happen, but I think I want something more original.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
All the options naturally develop countermeasures, and especially but not exclusively in the case of the prideful man, further develop government along a track we particularly want to see. To counteract a greedy king would either become a junta-like despotism or a more advanced feudal structure, with the sub-chiefs taking more power to protect themselves, successfully or otherwise. To counteract an incompetent one develops a need for prior success and display of talent before consideration for higher positions, it pushes the best to the top, much as the worst may complain. Meritocracy, I will admit, is relatively unstable, however. When someone is better, the general consensus would be to replace the old with the new and improved, which does no favors for the general stability of a political system, especially if those in power are willing to fight more dirty than the up-and-comer below them.
I never said it wouldn't. I just believe the long-term effects of the choice are more serious than the immediate ones.
- Location
- Hell
Just finished watching the video and am now tempted to vote for Foresting, but Irrigation was the bonus we got for our choice so...
They all have workarounds, but I prefer the workaround that is training and hard work.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That actually depends a lot on the environment. Slash and burn is actually most associated with only semi-settled societies that move their croplands and settlements ever couple of years as the soil depletes. You're in a river valley agriculture system, so you're dependent upon water control and seasonal flooding depositing a fresh layer of nutrient rich mud to make up for less advanced monocultural practices. More advanced techniques use various forms of crop rotation to allow the soil conditions to replenish themselves from one crop to the next. Two crop means that half your fields are fallow at any given time, three crop means that you have two different crops that can go right after one another and a third field fallow so you're always getting 2/3s of your land under cultivation instead of 1/2, and 4 crop and higher takes advantage of the fact that some plants like clover can replenish soil nutrients, so instead of letting them go fallow you plant a less useful crop that still restores the soil and do something like let animals graze in that field. High number crop rotation pretty much requires some degree of enclosure to make sure that whatever is going on in the neighbouring fields (particularly if you're letting sheep or cattle graze in one!) aren't interfering with what you planted in any given field.
This is how you select for "Becomes king" rather than "Can rule as king" as the most important skill set. You may wish to ask the various kings who saw their neighbours like the ever so friendly Romans or British as a useful way of getting a leg up on their rivals how that goes...
Yeah, it's easier to think environmentalism is a luxury when you're post-industrial, and your food, shelter and water no longer relies heavily on your immediate environment.
Water hygiene is a big one. You know how many cultures have major taboos against defiling wells, dumping shit in rivers? How many conflicts over distribution of water?
Clean water is something that takes effort to preserve, or everyone dies shitting their ass out.
Care of the land is another. This is pre-fertilizers, the soil quality will visibly degrade within a generation when farmed poorly, and people learn what not to do...or at least leave chunks of the environment intact so it can provide a buffer.
Finally, for flora(concern for fauna isn't such a big deal yet I think, since it's less immediate), many important medicines and drugs come from plants they've yet to cultivate successfully. Wipe them out and there's no more to use.
When you are at this level of society, making sure your environment can continue to support you is simple sense.
Of course, it just takes one Big Man with a Big Ego to order some major work to show off how Big he is to do a lot of damage. But that's one of the risks of this model.
Water hygiene is a big one. You know how many cultures have major taboos against defiling wells, dumping shit in rivers? How many conflicts over distribution of water?
Clean water is something that takes effort to preserve, or everyone dies shitting their ass out.
Care of the land is another. This is pre-fertilizers, the soil quality will visibly degrade within a generation when farmed poorly, and people learn what not to do...or at least leave chunks of the environment intact so it can provide a buffer.
Finally, for flora(concern for fauna isn't such a big deal yet I think, since it's less immediate), many important medicines and drugs come from plants they've yet to cultivate successfully. Wipe them out and there's no more to use.
When you are at this level of society, making sure your environment can continue to support you is simple sense.
Of course, it just takes one Big Man with a Big Ego to order some major work to show off how Big he is to do a lot of damage. But that's one of the risks of this model.
- Location
- U.S.
so code geass Britannia system then?
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
I mean if we get A Lelouch level leader than we've pretty much won for a generation and have 1000s of supports for the future.