Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Wait.
@Academia Nut I think you forgot to add the boat's expected pay off that will happen latter this turn?
Shouldn't we be getting an additional +1 Econ and +1 Diplomacy during the middle of this turn? Or is that too far away to put in the parenthesis yet?
@Academia Nut I think you forgot to add the boat's expected pay off that will happen latter this turn?
Shouldn't we be getting an additional +1 Econ and +1 Diplomacy during the middle of this turn? Or is that too far away to put in the parenthesis yet?
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
take advantage of it
Negaverse Spirit Talkers 2
This is a continuation of this earlier omake.
First, a sound echoing in the quiet. Then: light, and the movement of air which has laid undisturbed for a century. Footsteps, as a trio of people enter your sacred ground. They do not walk in the proper forms, they do not follow the proper trails, yet you can tell that it is from ignorance, not malice.
Then you see them. It is the nomads. The monsters who destroyed your people. Yet they seem to not be here to desecrate what remains, for they are acting cautious and reverent. One of them sees your wall, and kneels before you, explaining what has happened. After reclaiming the axe, they had settled down to continue their fight against the hated Dead Priests, using the power of the Star Axe. Then, disaster struck. A truly massive comet had arrived, coinciding with plague at an unprecedented level. They knew that this was proof that the spirits were displeased, and decided that they must honor them to make up for their past faults. From the remnants of your civilization they learned what they could, and have re-opened the cave.
Admittedly, you knew nothing of this disaster. If your people had survived it would've been obvious decades before becoming visible, but you had been cut off from all outside contact. It had been a long and boring wait. But now? Now you have a chance to guide these destructive fools, to fix their flaws and teach them true civilization.
You don't have much information yet, and your ability to influence is still weak from lack of attention, but you can at least start to do something. Freedom has never before tasted so sweet.
You currently have limited influence over the Thunder Horses. Choose two.
[] Worship Us
Try your best to influence them to more directly and frequently worship you. If successful, this will cause them to give you more information on the world and reveals all of their stats and values. Can be taken twice to guarantee success.
[] Star Axe
The Star Axe is a magic most powerful, it is clearly the source of this disaster. Tell them to bring it to the cave, for it is too dangerous for mortal hands- at least, not without further study. Gives them the Spiritual Value "Magic is Dangerous" and +1 stability.
[] Watch and Learn
Teach them how to observe the world around them and the stars above. Teach them the knowledge of your now-dead people. Teach them how to predict the disasters before they come in the future. Gives them +1 Mysticism and the Spiritual Value "Observance". (This is the tier 1 version, not the upgraded one)
[] The Economy, you Fools!
You have learned from your past, so just... try to get them to farm more, spread out some, and overall not make the same mistakes that killed your decedents. Improves their economy and likely has additional affects.
Civilization Stats
Economy mediocre
Martial excellent
Stability uncertain
Mysticism critically low
Social Values (1/?)
Land of Opportunity
You welcome all, offering food and shelter if they will contribute to your community. Sometimes these newcomers behave badly, and sometimes they bring strange new ideas, but in general they strengthen your community, especially in the long run
Pros: Enhanced absorption of new ideas, +1 social value from current or historical neighbours, whenever a neighbour suffers a stability drop, have the option to also suffer a stability drop in exchange for a large boost to Econ and technological and social advancement by absorbing especially large numbers of people
Cons: Many think you weak, not accepting the needy can cause stability drops, sometimes you get values you didn't expect
-No value currently linked
Spiritual Values (1/1)
Somebody Else's Problem
The spirits obviously exist, but it's not really your thing. You don't mess with them, they don't mess with you.
Pros: Increased resistance to problems from low Mysticism
Cons: Decreased ability to gain Mysticism
Honour Code (3/?)
My Word is My Bond
You keep your word, no matter what. If you promise to do something, it shall be done. If you speak something, it is the truth.
Pros: Less corruption, neighbors will trust you more
Cons: Can't ever renegade on deals, don't gain as much from trade missions
Family First
Your parents are the true authority, even above the state. Your children are what must always come first.
Pros: When engaged in battle near a city, massively increased hero chances. When engaged in battle on your borders, increased hero chances.
Cons: Increased stability loss if civilians are killed, increased corruption due to nepotism
For Glory
Glory is all important. Everyone wants it and everyone can try, but only the best shall grab it.
Pros: Improved morale during battle. Increased hero chances. Heroes have more options for quests.
Cons: Discourages deep thought, sometimes fighting isn't the answer
Negaverse- Spirit Talkers 2
Discussion in 'Quests' started by Philosopher Luna, Feb 27, 2017. Episode II: A New Hope
First, a sound echoing in the quiet. Then: light, and the movement of air which has laid undisturbed for a century. Footsteps, as a trio of people enter your sacred ground. They do not walk in the proper forms, they do not follow the proper trails, yet you can tell that it is from ignorance, not malice.
Then you see them. It is the nomads. The monsters who destroyed your people. Yet they seem to not be here to desecrate what remains, for they are acting cautious and reverent. One of them sees your wall, and kneels before you, explaining what has happened. After reclaiming the axe, they had settled down to continue their fight against the hated Dead Priests, using the power of the Star Axe. Then, disaster struck. A truly massive comet had arrived, coinciding with plague at an unprecedented level. They knew that this was proof that the spirits were displeased, and decided that they must honor them to make up for their past faults. From the remnants of your civilization they learned what they could, and have re-opened the cave.
Admittedly, you knew nothing of this disaster. If your people had survived it would've been obvious decades before becoming visible, but you had been cut off from all outside contact. It had been a long and boring wait. But now? Now you have a chance to guide these destructive fools, to fix their flaws and teach them true civilization.
You don't have much information yet, and your ability to influence is still weak from lack of attention, but you can at least start to do something. Freedom has never before tasted so sweet.
You currently have limited influence over the Thunder Horses. Choose two.
[] Worship Us
Try your best to influence them to more directly and frequently worship you. If successful, this will cause them to give you more information on the world and reveals all of their stats and values. Can be taken twice to guarantee success.
[] Star Axe
The Star Axe is a magic most powerful, it is clearly the source of this disaster. Tell them to bring it to the cave, for it is too dangerous for mortal hands- at least, not without further study. Gives them the Spiritual Value "Magic is Dangerous" and +1 stability.
[] Watch and Learn
Teach them how to observe the world around them and the stars above. Teach them the knowledge of your now-dead people. Teach them how to predict the disasters before they come in the future. Gives them +1 Mysticism and the Spiritual Value "Observance". (This is the tier 1 version, not the upgraded one)
[] The Economy, you Fools!
You have learned from your past, so just... try to get them to farm more, spread out some, and overall not make the same mistakes that killed your decedents. Improves their economy and likely has additional affects.
Civilization Stats
Economy mediocre
Martial excellent
Stability uncertain
Mysticism critically low
Social Values (1/?)
Land of Opportunity
You welcome all, offering food and shelter if they will contribute to your community. Sometimes these newcomers behave badly, and sometimes they bring strange new ideas, but in general they strengthen your community, especially in the long run
Pros: Enhanced absorption of new ideas, +1 social value from current or historical neighbours, whenever a neighbour suffers a stability drop, have the option to also suffer a stability drop in exchange for a large boost to Econ and technological and social advancement by absorbing especially large numbers of people
Cons: Many think you weak, not accepting the needy can cause stability drops, sometimes you get values you didn't expect
-No value currently linked
Spiritual Values (1/1)
Somebody Else's Problem
The spirits obviously exist, but it's not really your thing. You don't mess with them, they don't mess with you.
Pros: Increased resistance to problems from low Mysticism
Cons: Decreased ability to gain Mysticism
Honour Code (3/?)
My Word is My Bond
You keep your word, no matter what. If you promise to do something, it shall be done. If you speak something, it is the truth.
Pros: Less corruption, neighbors will trust you more
Cons: Can't ever renegade on deals, don't gain as much from trade missions
Family First
Your parents are the true authority, even above the state. Your children are what must always come first.
Pros: When engaged in battle near a city, massively increased hero chances. When engaged in battle on your borders, increased hero chances.
Cons: Increased stability loss if civilians are killed, increased corruption due to nepotism
For Glory
Glory is all important. Everyone wants it and everyone can try, but only the best shall grab it.
Pros: Improved morale during battle. Increased hero chances. Heroes have more options for quests.
Cons: Discourages deep thought, sometimes fighting isn't the answer
Benevolo said:
absolutelyperfect said:That Social Value... I know I'm not normally one for exaggeration, but HOLY FRACKING HELL YES, WE ARE THE ONES TO STEAL ALL YOUR ECON NOW! LAND OF OPPORTUNITY IS OURS!!
[X] Worship Us
[X] Worship Us x2
We need that info before we can do anything useful, otherwise we might just make the situation worse. Without those numbers we shouldn't do anything.
PS. They have no real Spiritual Values and no writing.All those beautiful numbers, gone.
Alphahugger said:
tryzip said:
Theiodamas420 said:
Umi-Chan said:
Philosopher Luna said:
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- Location
- Panama City
??? I'm not getting your point. We have so many econ slots the boom is likely to end naturally before we fill them.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
Skipping the votes and convo here, and instead submitting that, if we're again presented with "lose stability, nill chance of solving anything" verses "just make everything hereditary", we just make everything hereditary?
Don't think of it as opening us up to a future form of corruption, think of it as solving the worst problems of a Planned Economy, aka "the reason the USSR sucked so much". Seriously, communist elves are great, but being purists about it probably isn't the way to go. Just saying.
And besides, it opens up opportunities to start generating inheritance laws! Isn't that exciting?!?
But no, seriously, we've pushed our current method to it's limit, and we need to switch to something new and start improving THAT instead. Stagnation has killed more powerful civilizations than any other force in history, including the Mongols. And the Mongols were scary.
3044 It's like the Values system: we do something until it isn't enough, than we adopt a new system that will probably carry over some of the better stuff from what we were doing before, while solving most of the old problems. And as for generating new problems, well, that's just a fact of life, isn't it? Even if we come up with something, it'll start generating it's own set of problems anyway.
Don't think of it as opening us up to a future form of corruption, think of it as solving the worst problems of a Planned Economy, aka "the reason the USSR sucked so much". Seriously, communist elves are great, but being purists about it probably isn't the way to go. Just saying.
And besides, it opens up opportunities to start generating inheritance laws! Isn't that exciting?!?
But no, seriously, we've pushed our current method to it's limit, and we need to switch to something new and start improving THAT instead. Stagnation has killed more powerful civilizations than any other force in history, including the Mongols. And the Mongols were scary.
3044 It's like the Values system: we do something until it isn't enough, than we adopt a new system that will probably carry over some of the better stuff from what we were doing before, while solving most of the old problems. And as for generating new problems, well, that's just a fact of life, isn't it? Even if we come up with something, it'll start generating it's own set of problems anyway.
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- Location
- Panama City
My thoughts exactly. People want to continue doing communism, but I don't think it's viable in the long run. We've pushed it as far as we can go, but with our pop ever expanding, we'd need ridiculous levels of cent and hierarchy to keep the wheels from coming off at this point. Time to swallow our pride and go feudalism.
Which still doesn't solve anything.
- Location
- Panama City
Yes it does. It might not solve things in a way you like, but it solves the issue.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It solves the current set and gives us a new set. Meh. *throws up hands*
I dunno!
Gonna have to think about it for awhile.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
would this include punishing those who are fucking with land re-allocation?
It stops a specific form of corruption in return for sharply reducing our civilization's social mobility.
It does not stop corruption in general, which means we'd have taken a permanent hit to save temporary pain because we'd still need to find more general anti-corruption measures.
It's police action. Which tends to work on corruption.
How else do you make people stop? The root cause is human nature, so you need to make them stop. Without the threat of force, you can't make people follow your punishments(I mean, hell, that remains true even in modern society where the state has an overwhelming force advantage)
Remember our punishment methods:
-Cut luxury rations
-Half exile(temporary)
-Half exil(permanent)
-Full exile
I don't think we do any physical punishment at all unless they resist arrest.
I don't think it upgrades the land any further, it just makes it easier to work marginal land with higher production. Valuable for claiming new areas basically, but we naturally transform our soil to good quality
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sadly I think this corruption is going to be an ongoing problem.
We might need to somehow make a megaproject out of it like the Blight War.
Statistical report:
{:date=>"Feb 27, 2017", :count=>98}
{:date=>"Feb 28, 2017", :count=>141}
{:date=>"Mar 4, 2017", :count=>231}
{:date=>"Mar 5, 2017", :count=>329}
{:date=>"Mar 6, 2017", :count=>564}
{:date=>"Mar 16, 2017", :count=>744}
{:date=>"Apr 17, 2017", :count=>746}
On Monday, we broke a new record with 746 replies, or nearly 30 pages in one day. Congratulation!
{:date=>"Feb 27, 2017", :count=>98}
{:date=>"Feb 28, 2017", :count=>141}
{:date=>"Mar 4, 2017", :count=>231}
{:date=>"Mar 5, 2017", :count=>329}
{:date=>"Mar 6, 2017", :count=>564}
{:date=>"Mar 16, 2017", :count=>744}
{:date=>"Apr 17, 2017", :count=>746}
On Monday, we broke a new record with 746 replies, or nearly 30 pages in one day. Congratulation!
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Who oversees it?
- Location
- Panama City
Corruption in general is ALWAYS going to be an issue. We might be able to curtail it for a time, but we'll nbever eliminate it. This change is something people are really wanting, so we can't put it off any longer.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Never eliminate it? Nah I think we can, but it might be a very long and tough road. Kinda like our war against the Blight but longer and harder.
Huh. hehehehehehe Just had a thought.
I think this is the part that's being objected to; there's a fair number of libertarians on SV.
And it's not like people who think that are going to admit that libertarianism is fundamentally incompatable with the direction of our civ so far.
I am a wait-and-see kind of guy. I am not going to commit going feudalism until I see what our options are.
We may evolve a more sophisticated system for tackling corruption and cheating, or we may have to transition away from communal property.
And a threat to social mobility is a threat to probably the single best thing we've got going for our civ at the moment. Though our environmentalism will eventually pay off. It's very much the long game with that one.
I think it might actually be paying off now. I suspect that the baby boom had to do with a province critting in a study health roll.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
Non-argument. Nothing will ever stop corruption in full, just marginalize it to the point of being a negligible problem. That's what this will do. The corruption will come back, but it'll do that anyway, no matter what.
A more valid argument, but not a strong enough one to dissuade me. Yeah, mobility will be decreased, but it also gives legal grounds for the lower classes to say to the upper echelon "No, this is the land that my family has farmed for a thousand years, screw off" and get away from it, because everybody from Lower Valleyhome to the Fishing Villages knows that, yes, it is their farm, and the chief has no right to take that away from them. (The next step is to invent a legal system to manage that though, but I'm just guessing that)
3045
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