zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
It's like 1pm here, so...
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
It's like 1pm here, so...
- Location
- Hell
[X] Restrict such activities
[X] Yes
[X] [Main] Step-Farms
[X] [Secondary] Organize Settlement
-[X] Valley
-[X] Coast
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- Location
- Huezil
I'm cursed with inmsonia, tabagism and caffeine addiction...
- Location
- U.S.
Yum, coffee~
- Location
- Hell
There the vote has been changed to address that. We are sending a one time gift and stopping strife all together. Also might be good to get a head start on good relations with those people. They are the only other major group here after all.
I've had problems with Insomnia myself since I was small(Still am;_; ).
That's not fun.
At least I have you all to keep me company ~<3
We do actually
"High chance of social strife" is pretty indicative that this is serious business.
I'm not certain that the festival would do anything to address their issues. It's basically a bread and circuses approach to a very real fear of the unknown and a sense of loss of control that's not being met, it simply defers the issue to a later date.
That's one of the reasons people brought the Spirit Talkers food during the drought. Remember when our people were about to enact violent regime change for not sending people to beg for spiritual intervention, only saved by the timely rain?
Either we develop our own spirituality, we import it from the Spirit Talkers and accept that some of their values will displace ours, or the people will force the matter eventually.
Note that AN never gives pointless votes. This sets a precedent.
When something spooky happens, you bring offerings to the Spirit Talkers. When something good happens, you bring offerings to the Spirit Talkers. When you have an enemy, you bring offerings to the Spirit Talkers.
It means that the next time something weird happens, there would be even stronger pressure to bring tribute to them in hopes of intervention. And of course, it means importing their beliefs on the spiritual world.
Do we want spiritual beliefs in line with our cultural cores of Charity, Equivalent Exchange and Ecology, or do we want to take in a foreign ideology we don't know much of, except that they definitely are not interested in Ecology(or they would have balked at the thought of blasting an enemy with drought or floods).
- Location
- Hell
That's exaggerating it quite a bit, especially since we've already had the precedent of not going to them for help. This single action isn't going to automatically make us subservient to them or otherwise why would AN clarify that it was a one time deal? It could simply open up the option of meeting them, just like the Fishermen came bearing gifts to us after the first Severe drought.
That in turn open up options of seeing what they do and if they are worth being friends with.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Mass Response Post, sorry for its disorganization.
wtf. Where do you live??
Why do people always use Zuko... Azula ftw.There the vote has been changed to address that. We are sending a one time gift and stopping strife all together. Also might be good to get a head start on good relations with those people. They are the only other major group here after all.
I've had problems with Insomnia myself since I was small(Still am;_; ).
That's not fun.
At least I have you all to keep me company ~<3
I'd agree if I didn't hate religion. Stop wanting it so bad bro. Zeus is a douche and Ishtar likes aurochs too much.
Okay, I don't want Axchin as a god but if Crow could b one... and maybe his mother? That'd be rad. I might go religious for Crow and Coyote.
I'd support changing to a trade expedition tbh. Trading would let us learn more about them and we can set up annual festivities later. ON the other hand, though, the festival will boost our culture & art. And that seems like a really good thing, and might have a synergistic effect w/ regulating our non-productive acts, like storytelling and dancing and etc.
we're at our limit but we've been at it before. Increasing our food supply and resistance to environmental effects seems like a major priority to me, tbh. Also, I feel like we need to build the step farms first so that latter organizations take them into account.
OhhhhYees?
That's why I'm voting for it as my Main? We are at the very edge of our limit, it would be best to make a big push to fixing that so we have some leeway for future projects.
Crow would be a trickster spirit, not a weather spirit you egg
Sounds reasonable IMHO. Idk if annual festival will suffice but I hate religion enough to support it.
Population density is good brah. Admittedly it means diseases spread more easily, but that's an issue of hygiene. I still think we should reorg tho.
We didn't suffer from diseases because a) we're not dumbfucks and b) we weren't trapped in muddy water while starving and thus w/ a vulnerable immune system.
It's called the "lie so that people give us free money" cheese. Aka Gouda.
*highfives another nominally catholic childhooder. I see religion, or more specifically the Abrahamic religions, as being a good source of creativity and culture but being unacceptably hegemonic and overbearing as an institution.
Random notes: We'll be regulating all forms of gambling and betting, both on dice and on footraces and other games of strength or skill. The step-farms bring irrigation to its limit aka make it as efficient as possible aka best choice for water reserves. Establishing an annual festival after the drought's end is a good way to relieve tensions, even if it wastes food. While there's a high chance of turmoil, a combination of an annual festival to relieve tensions and some form of spiritual act will suffice. Building a dam has been argued to count as a form of appeasement to the water spirits - aka we're thanking the water spirits for their gift of rain and asking them to keep it at stable levels or something. The dam might be dangerous, but we've gone through a good two periods of dealing with floods, so I'd say we have a fair knowledge of how water soaks earth and what the effect is both in the short term and over generations. Admittedly, we probably don't know much about the effect of such weight, but it's unlikely that we're building the dam out of mortared stone or concrete, in which case we're using normal stones, which expand contract with relative ease. We'd probably also be packing it with dirt, or maybe just be using dirt alone.
I figured that water mills and windmills were more or less the same, though the latter might be a bit more delicate. Both of them require solid woodworking skills and stoneworking skills. Admittedly windmills alone require gears, but water mills greatly benefit.We have a strong economy, but it's also mentioned in text that we used up a lot of the food stores.
Economy is how fast they replenish, but we lack reserves to absorb bad luck(which as we've seen with the drought, can be sudden).
Basically Bad Timing, not Bad Idea.
Build up at least a turn's worth of reserves and I think the Canal would be a great idea(the Dam REALLY should wait until we've done the Canal, because we need to learn the lessons of the danger of water weight load on geography that you simply cannot learn with Irrigation).
People don't tend to realize how much water weighs, especially if the bedrock is flawed in some way. There are primitive dams that caused earthquakes from fracturing the land they're built on.
So its literally an economic boom/bust build. Be assholes to everyone until they riot, then roll in the warriors to enslave them, so they now work for minimal rations.
But they tunnelvisioned on human threats and ignored environmental.
Yeah, that was obvious, I mean, they're too far to send a steady stream.
It's a combination of these:
1) Please don't nuke us, see, we're friends!
2) Fuck yes, you destroyed the environment of our enemies, thank you!
3) Maybe we should pay off the spirits so they won't do this again.
Non-exclusive, but I think Gardeners would be thinking of 1 and 3. 2 is anathema to us.
3 would be mitigated by our building our own Spirit Place
1 would be mitigated by Dam/Canal(reducing our vulnerability to the elements) and to a lesser extent, Organize Settlements, as well as Manage Forests.
Makes sense.
Though I get the impression you're going to want a stockpile of food before you start a mega project, because while working on it your ability to respond to negative events is greatly reduced.
Tagged voting (i.e. [][Major] Organize Settlement) helps.
You also need to establish a standard notation for actions which can be taken twice, like Organize Settlement and Build Walls.
Example version of my current vote in proper notation for the easiest tallying.
Live and learn I guess.
They're probably learning fast how to do it better since we keep adding more stuff for them to administrate
Oh and this is old but, windmills required advanced woodworking, developing gears, bearings, fabrics or lightweight wooden construction...you need something sturdy enough to catch enough wind to do useful work without being too heavy for the wind to move.
Watermills also aren't that simple.
No? We're far away, they didn't ask for tribute. Our people simply saw that whatever they did worked so we're doing it too(admittedly what they're really good at is to have people give them food for doing strange dances, give them food when people are starving, give them food when people get sick...it's a good gig).
Religious rivalry isn't a thing yet, unless we start going into dickwaving contests about the power of our relative spirits. Consider what happened when the Romans swept over the Greeks, they saw the Greek gods, liked the idea and pretty much cloned the pantheon.
Religious rivalry tended to be much lower key in the primitive era due to heavy syncreticism(which is to say, believing that you or the other guy have similar gods and spirits, just interpreted differently and freely stealing elements).
It's only when monotheism rose up that religions became exclusive and rivalries went from political justifications to long term grudges, because reconciliation became impossible.
A significant portion of our population believed what they did worked, and they don't have the means to learn that it's not so unless we have people whose job is to look at clouds and stars all day and still get fed.
Whether it worked or not probably isn't relevant, but our people being anxious about angry spirits is a real concern that needs to be sated. They don't need to even do anything, people expecting a curse would attribute unrelated events to supernatural intervention.
...and I think I'd like our local beliefs not to be subsumed by other belief systems.
Note the 'proof' is from our people's PoV.
-Care for the land and it will care for you. Proven. Our care for the forests, soil and the flow of water sheltered us from the drought and the floods.
-Give unto those in need, and your needs too will be met. Proven. Our charity ended the drought and brought us tribute and friends. Our aid for the Fisher-folk saved us when the unseasonal rains drowned the farms, bringing us fish, and we saved them in turn again when the storms destroyed their fisheries.
-What was taken, you return in equal share. Not quite proven, but it's worked so far.
Crow is such a dick mfg.
And spread as we spread, though.
- Location
- Huezil
Sharing Circle
You share what you have, even if you have little. Sometimes you are taken advantage of, but more often than not people will share what they have in turn.
Pros: Deep ties of reciprocity, ideas shared more easily
Cons: Strife generated from turning people away, paints a target
Eye for an Eye
Justice is to be served, but it must be discriminating and proportional. Retribution must follow, but it must also end once served.
Pros: Greater assurances of fair behaviour, regardless of position within the tribe
Cons: Justice must be served
We are reciprocating the favor of them freeing us of the lowlanders, but if they even think of taking advantage of us, the response will be harsh.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
2 PM here.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
sexy sexy logic, sir. You're converting me to the "Let's make up a religion that suits our beliefs" way of thinking.
That's a good response. But it implies that we'll start sharing whatever we have if they ask for it, kind of. It doesn't say that we dispense reciprocity to people, only that our sharing forms deep ties of reciprocity.
Though that might mean that they like us. And it would be fair to repay them, if we attribute it to them and not to the spirits in general.
2 PM here.
Are all y'all from SEA?
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Trying to, metal cross. It's 10pm here on Pacific time.
[X] Restrict such activities
[X] Yes
[X] [Main] Step-Farms
[X] [Secondary] Organize Settlement
-[X] Valley
-[X] Coast
Hey red scary lady! Does these counter my prior vote?
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
1am.
Do you all live in the future?
Do you all live in the future?
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
I'm not a scary lady, but I'm red and yes.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Also, again:
[X] Sivantic.
I trust that s/he (if I could make this more gender neutral I would) and I share the same interests, even if I'm much more greedier and eager.
[X] Sivantic.
I trust that s/he (if I could make this more gender neutral I would) and I share the same interests, even if I'm much more greedier and eager.
r u red from all the heart disease canadian food gives out?
- Location
- Hell
Then why not give? It might open up the option of entering in dialogue with them.
And if they try to take advantage? Forget Eye for an Eye
S̱̳͔̮̜̞ͪͧ̔̀V̡̈͊ͥ͏̸̯͚͙̜͔͎͉ ̑̾̽̓ͣͨ́̈́̀҉͓̣̼W͚̤̦̪̞͙̍̊ͬ͒̋͗ͪÌ̦̼͗L̵̸͎̙͐͂ͭ͋̓̾̽̑ͅL͍̺̲͔̰̫̰̎̈ͫ͑͢͠ͅ ͕͕͇͇͕̳̜̼̻ͣ̍ͬͦͪ͑͒̾Ẹ̪̠͎́̑̂͐ͫ͗̄͋̄͝͠͠ͅNͯ͂͟͏̹̥̮͈̖D̴͎̿ͤͭ̔̍̊̚ ̷̡̮̩͈̈̏ͮ͒̈̓͞T̄͌̓ͤ͡͏͏̗̟͙̬̱̜̝̗H͓͕̦̭͍̙͖̹̿̕É̡̟̜̩̏̉͑ͧM̸̹̪̞̝̻̳͕ͪ̓͢͝
y̥͈̫̺̘̪e͖̦͔̱̮̮̕s̨,͏̤̬̠͍ͅͅ ̴̙s̠̙̗w̞e̞e͏̙t͏̝ ̖̳̭͝c̨̱̳h̵̖i͚̫̻l̤̰̺̲͍̫̲d̼̫̪̫.͓.̩̩̰͚.̷̣̰͕̭
- Location
- Sweden
[X] Regulate such activities
[X] No (high chance of social strife, mitigated by certain other choices)
[X] [Main] Dedicate Place to Spirits
[X] [Secondary] Organize Settlement
-[X] Valley
-[X] Coast
[X] No (high chance of social strife, mitigated by certain other choices)
[X] [Main] Dedicate Place to Spirits
[X] [Secondary] Organize Settlement
-[X] Valley
-[X] Coast
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Well these is this blue_green ball on a stand that group of smart designer made. It turns very well and the sun also turns but i don't remember what The teacher said. Just watch it trun and go to sleep?
