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Paths of Civilization

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No7sHere said:
Ok so what's the plan next turn?
Main: Expand Warriors
Secondary: Expand trails
Secondary: Something Economical
?
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Well, if expanding trails wins THIS turn, I'm for:
Main:Expand Warriors
Secondary:Expand Economy(Redshore)
Secondary:New Settlement(Blue Rock Quarry)

This combo pays for the warrior expand, allowing us to do something like maining War Carts after that, or maining Expand Holy Site if we need to boost mystic in combo with a secondary Sacred Warrior(or holdinf off the turn after THAT to Main More Blackbirds, which has an additional effect when mained, which is likely an upgrade of some sort)
 
tryrar said:
Well, if expanding trails wins THIS turn, I'm for:
Main:Expand Warriors
Secondary:Expand Economy(Redshore)
Secondary:New Settlement(Blue Rock Quarry)

This combo pays for the warrior expand, allowing us to do something like maining War Carts after that, or maining Expand Holy Site if we need to boost mystic in combo with a secondary Sacred Warrior(or holdinf off the turn after THAT to Main More Blackbirds, which has an additional effect when mained, which is likely an upgrade of some sort)
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I would like to Main Warriors and Main Black Birds, and then Main War Carts, as long we make sure that all the other stats don't fall behind.
 
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
 
Kiba said:
I would like to Main Warriors and Main Black Birds, and then Main War Carts, as long we make sure that all the other stats don't fall behind.
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We are sitting at pretty low Econ, and we have low (though probably not critically so) Centralization and not good enough for LoO Stability, so I'd rather Main Expand Warriors Main Restore Harmony or Main Expand Warriors Secondary Trails Secondary Expand Economy (or Main Warriors + Main Trails if we can afford it, but we probably won't).
 
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom

ctulhuslp said:
ALL HAIL COMMUNISM
Which, incidentally, is another reason to get high Centralization and Stability: to preserve glorious communism. I am worried that more rigid social order (kings and all) may mess with communal property.
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Oh Crow, we're turning into Cresce! (Another opportunity to plug Unsounded)
 
Kiba said:
I would like to Main Warriors and Main Black Birds, and then Main War Carts, as long we make sure that all the other stats don't fall behind.
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Problem: We don't know if we'll have the one Mysticism for Main Blackbirds next turn-remember, we'll have 0 temporarily when this turn finishes as our last point completes the megaproject. There's good evidence it will grant us bonus mysticism, but in case it doesn't we'll have to squeeze in an emergency Expand Holy Site in there somewhere.
 
We still have our diplo hero so I hope we can fit another secondary to either the miners or the lowland minors at least.
 
Sivantic said:
We still have our diplo hero so I hope we can fit another secondary to either the miners or the lowland minors at least.
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Why the miners? We already have a trade route to them. Seriously, if you want to do a trade mission to the miners, at least explain your reasoning on why it would provide even more benefits than we already get.
 
tryrar said:
Why the miners? We already have a trade route to them. Seriously, if you want to do a trade mission to the miners, at least explain your reasoning on why it would provide even more benefits than we already get.
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At least to get more tools for more understanding and examples of what proper metalworking looks like.
Also, for more contacts between our civilisations, hopefully resulting in us knowing more about their society in general (and I hope to get a shot at their traits via LoO eventually).

Mind, I am not for such a mission - I think that we should care about Stability 2+, Centralization 5+ and army first. But I understand the reasons behind Trade Mission - Metal Miners.
 
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tryrar said:
Why the miners? We already have a trade route to them. Seriously, if you want to do a trade mission to the miners, at least explain your reasoning on why it would provide even more benefits than we already get.
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I want to take advantage of our diplo hero.

It'a why I still left the option for Lowland Minor as well. I'm not too picky who we send it to so much that we do.
 
Sivantic said:
I want to take advantage of our diplo hero.

It'a why I still left the option for Lowland Minor as well. I'm not too picky who we send it to so much that we do.
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Frankly, @ctulhuslp's reasoning for a Metal Miner's trade mission makes more sense than "I wanna take advantage of our diplo hero". I will grant A Lowland Minors mission does make some sense in a turn where we Main Expand Warriors, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if we snap up some lowland settlements through a diplomatic annexation, we're gonna suddenly have a new province, and -1 centralization. If you really want a Lowlands Minors mission, I suggest supporting trails this turn as a buffer against any possible centralization drops from a successful diplo-annex.
 
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses

tryrar said:
Frankly, @ctulhuslp's reasoning for a Metal Miner's trade mission makes more sense than "I wanna take advantage of our diplo hero". I will grant A Lowland Minors mission does make some sense in a turn where we Main Expand Warriors, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if we snap up some lowland settlements through a diplomatic annexation, we're gonna suddenly have a new province, and -1 centralization. If you really want a Lowlands Minors mission, I suggest supporting trails this turn as a buffer against any possible centralization drops from a successful diplo-annex.
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From what little I understand, expanding out into the Lowlands is very close to a requirement if we want to be able to keep ramping our economy up on demand. Sure, we still have New Settlement sites within our definite borders of hills and trees, but those are both relatively limited, and liable to have fewer available slots due to being near already established settlements.

I'd rather start grabbing extra Liebesraum (or whatever that catchy-but-politically-charged-in-this-context word is) BEFORE we need it, rather than after. Whatever that may require.

2854
 
Sightsear said:
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses


From what little I understand, expanding out into the Lowlands is very close to a requirement if we want to be able to keep ramping our economy up on demand. Sure, we still have New Settlement sites within our definite borders of hills and trees, but those are both relatively limited, and liable to have fewer available slots due to being near already established settlements.

I'd rather start grabbing extra Liebesraum (or whatever that catchy-but-politically-charged-in-this-context word is) BEFORE we need it, rather than after. Whatever that may require.

2854
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Well, if you agree, then support trails! I would be shocked if lowlands wasn't an entire separate province, which is probably why we lost the ability to settle there when the government changed(since we had no existing settlement there to convert to the capital of a province). And remember, AN said that while settlements aren't going to be dropping our centralization anymore, provinces are what's going to hammer our central authority every time we create a new one, and having a +1 buffer in advance of any action that might impact centralization is just smart.
 
Sightsear said:
From what little I understand, expanding out into the Lowlands is very close to a requirement if we want to be able to keep ramping our economy up on demand. Sure, we still have New Settlement sites within our definite borders of hills and trees, but those are both relatively limited, and liable to have fewer available slots due to being near already established settlements.

I'd rather start grabbing extra Liebesraum (or whatever that catchy-but-politically-charged-in-this-context word is) BEFORE we need it, rather than after. Whatever that may require.
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It's Lebensraum (only one word of German I know, because lol Victoria 2).
Also....we need higher Centralization, Stability and military to expand, else we fall apart or won't be able to defend ourselves.
Tech is less important because we are pretty good on agritech, are catching up on metalworking (hopefully making us ahead of Priests), and are only tacking war tech, which we will acquire only through practice and stealing ideas from everyone (like we did with armor and shields from Dead Priests).
 
tryrar said:
Frankly, @ctulhuslp's reasoning for a Metal Miner's trade mission makes more sense than "I wanna take advantage of our diplo hero". I will grant A Lowland Minors mission does make some sense in a turn where we Main Expand Warriors, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if we snap up some lowland settlements through a diplomatic annexation, we're gonna suddenly have a new province, and -1 centralization. If you really want a Lowlands Minors mission, I suggest supporting trails this turn as a buffer against any possible centralization drops from a successful diplo-annex.
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Well here are the options
-Target Options: Highland Kingdom, Thunder Horses, Metal Miners, Coastal Minors, Lowland Minors, Into the Wild
Hopefully we do Highland Kingdom and Thunder Horse this turn. That still leaves four other options as well as
[] Sailing Mission
Any of them can be good in my opinion.
 
ctulhuslp said:
It's Lebensraum (only one word of German I know, because lol Victoria 2).
Also....we need higher Centralization, Stability and military to expand, else we fall apart or won't be able to defend ourselves.
Tech is less important because we are pretty good on agritech, are catching up on metalworking (hopefully making us ahead of Priests), and are only tacking war tech, which we will acquire only through practice and stealing ideas from everyone (like we did with armor and shields from Dead Priests).
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And maining expand warriors, which grants an innovation roll.
 
ctulhuslp said:
It's Lebensraum (only one word of German I know, because lol Victoria 2).
Also....we need higher Centralization, Stability and military to expand, else we fall apart or won't be able to defend ourselves.
Tech is less important because we are pretty good on agritech, are catching up on metalworking (hopefully making us ahead of Priests), and are only tacking war tech, which we will acquire only through practice and stealing ideas from everyone (like we did with armor and shields from Dead Priests).
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"Living Space", except in a less assholey and not self-defeating way of doing it.

That or conquest.
 
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tryrar said:
Well, if you agree, then support trails! I would be shocked if lowlands wasn't an entire separate province, which is probably why we lost the ability to settle there when the government changed(since we had no existing settlement there to convert to the capital of a province). And remember, AN said that while settlements aren't going to be dropping our centralization anymore, provinces are what's going to hammer our central authority every time we create a new one, and having a +1 buffer in advance of any action that might impact centralization is just smart.
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Next turn - yes, Trails.
This turn...caravan to Highlands to give them a bit of Diplo edge to get more of Lowlands pieces; caravan to Nomads to actually try to stave off their raids and prop up trade-inclined factions. Both use our Heroic Diplomacy.
I mean, I can't and won't agitate against New Trails, because they are pretty important too, but the reasoning behind double Trade Mission is pretty solid.
tryrar said:
And maining expand warriors, which grants an innovation roll.
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That's one innovation roll, as opposed to based Blackbirds stealing like 3 techs in one turn. Which, in hindsight, was pretty amazing.
Granted, that roll is probably for getting army instead of raiding bands, so it's more important.
 
Sivantic said:
Well here are the options
-Target Options: Highland Kingdom, Thunder Horses, Metal Miners, Coastal Minors, Lowland Minors, Into the Wild
Hopefully we do Highland Kingdom and Thunder Horse this turn. That still leaves four other options as well as
[] Sailing Mission
Any of them can be good in my opinion.
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Issue: We're most likely maining warriors next, since we need to fix our martial. If you want to push minors to try to diplo-annex them next turn without boosting centralization this turn, we'd drop from Cent 3(not great, but not horrible either) to Cent 2(getting into the danger zone), and our action slate would be more crowded next turn since we need to do military, a diplo mission, and somehow fit in trails, which costs 3 econ total. Makes more sense to do trails this turn when we have the spare econ, and can fit in an econ action next turn for a buffer.
 
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tryrar said:
Well, if you agree, then support trails! I would be shocked if lowlands wasn't an entire separate province, which is probably why we lost the ability to settle there when the government changed(since we had no existing settlement there to convert to the capital of a province). And remember, AN said that while settlements aren't going to be dropping our centralization anymore, provinces are what's going to hammer our central authority every time we create a new one, and having a +1 buffer in advance of any action that might impact centralization is just smart.
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A fair point about the Trails. And if the Nomads start raiding, It'll probably just eat up Stone Pen's action (eventually, at least. All hail the Provincial System!)

[X] New Trails

But yeah, I'm mostly harping on it because I want to be sure that we start moving that way before we run out of Econ boosters to fund it with.

Also, I think we lost the action to settle down there because the place we've been scoping out for generations has FINALLY been taken by the WC Remnants (who are apparently contemplating throwing their lot in with us, so that may be a self-solving problem, but still)

2855
 
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Ok, yeah given the discussion we've just had, my support for next turn is this(assuming trails wins):

Main-Expand Warriors
Secondary-New Settlement(Blue Stone Quarry)
Secondary-Trade Mission(Lowland Minors)
 
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