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Paths of Civilization

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PrimalShadow said:
Note that that logical result took ONE THOUSAND YEARS.

For reference, if we started going down that route right now, we would come to its unfortunate conclusion in something like 2500+. Even if we only step out of lightning rounds at 2100, that is 400+ years, or 100+ turns - which means 200+ updates. That is longer than the entire length of this quest.

So I'm actually go on a limb and say that "strong opinions about farming" worked out perfectly fine, and helped us outlast the vast majority of our peers. The only reason we see it as a bad thing is that the lightning round structure compressed the MILLENNIA of peace we had under this policy into something like a single paragraph.
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The only reason we got away with "strong opinions on farming" is because we were genuinely ahead of the technological curve in comparison to the rest of our region.
That sort of toxic way of thinking also actually hindered our ability to survive, since as soon as we lost that technological edge we were unable to adapt to the times and got destroyed by our own hubris.
 
065tdsa said:
No, what took 1000 years was for something hard enough to beat us even with this mindset's downsides. And it was Genghis Khan, complete with siege auxiliaries from China to help him get past our fortifications. And even then it was a mutual kill, a feat no other civilization can boast of, and plenty of the Core, it's records and infrastructure survived, even if in a state of chaos that caused the practical knowledge to be lost.
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Genghis Khan with gunpowder, to boot.

If he hadn't shattered the northern forts in his opening move, I don't think even he could have beaten the Ymaryn.
 
Raichu1972 said:
That sort of toxic way of thinking also actually hindered our ability to survive
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The sort of toxic way of thinking was only able to propagate through our society and thrive once we stopped having outsiders that were genuine peers. Up to then, it worked perfectly fine. See integrating the lowland village back long, LONG ago, and also dealing with the Txolla and the Thunder Twins far more recently.

Any position gets toxic when you take it to the extreme. I'm just peeved that everyone points to this perspective as something that "killed us", when the actual action in question was to focus on internal matters and that was a major contributor to us staying stable as long as we did (given that our major threats at that point were precisely internal).
 
Raichu1972 said:
The only reason we got away with "strong opinions on farming" is because we were genuinely ahead of the technological curve in comparison to the rest of our region.
That sort of toxic way of thinking also actually hindered our ability to survive, since as soon as we lost that technological edge we were unable to adapt to the times and got destroyed by our own hubris.
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But we were genuinely ahead because of those strong opinions. Success breeds superiority, and there's precious little you can do about it when you fast-forward through the millennium of success.
 
Raichu1972 said:
The only reason we got away with "strong opinions on farming" is because we were genuinely ahead of the technological curve in comparison to the rest of our region.
That sort of toxic way of thinking also actually hindered our ability to survive, since as soon as we lost that technological edge we were unable to adapt to the times and got destroyed by our own hubris.
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The thing is, that wasn't our mindset while we were running things. We were all about aggressively stealing from the outside and worked hard to figure out ways to stay ahead of everyone else. It only became a problem when things suddenly got set on autopilot for hundreds of years. The Ymaryn were not isolationist on our watch.
 
065tdsa said:
No, what took 1000 years was for something hard enough to beat us even with this mindset's downsides. And it was Genghis Khan, complete with siege auxiliaries from China to help him get past our fortifications. And even then it was a mutual kill, a feat no other civilization can boast of, and plenty of the Core, it's records and infrastructure survived, even if in a state of chaos that caused the practical knowledge to be lost.

Fact is by historical standards the Ymaryn model, downsides and all, is hilariously, unreasonably good. You might say arrogance was inevitable without dedicated Humility values.
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agumentic said:
But we were genuinely ahead because of those strong opinions. Success breeds superiority, and there's precious little you can do about it when you fast-forward through the millennium of success.
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Mmm, yeah. I would dearly like to fast-forward to the Space Age as a rump state, passing over the centuries of success. After all, we currently hold absolute technological superiority in every aspect! For example, our naval tradition utterly eclipses the Syffrynites!

[Q] Stewardship
 
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I chose Stewardship because it would in effect give us the economic win and allow us to more directly fix the financial issues in Not!Russia, because with the founding and dissemination of the Personal Financial Agent Guild it won't take long before they start making suggestions on investments that the debtors might be interested in to pay off what they owe faster. And how long after that will the former debtors will simply keep them on to manage their finances full time so they can spend more time living it up only larger then ever?

Humanitarianism might make us popular, and that popularity might very well be better then having more money by itself, but we are looking at more then just money here, we are looking at financially strengthening Greater Ymar by simply removing the least responsible from being able to squander their money. Now think of the knock on effect to our other neighbor, the Black Sheep, the ones who raid Not!India when they need to do some debt paying, now we've gotten them to stop that for now due being able to give them a better alternative, but remember that empires on the Silk Road still collapsed OTL, usually when a more profitable vector was discovered, so keeping them fat and happy and listening to us serves our interests more then being good people.

lioli said:
Mmm, yeah. I would dearly like to fast-forward to the Space Age as a rump state, passing over the centuries of success where we don't have any technological superiority at all.

[} Stewardship
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You need to fix your vote.
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The logistics of Stewardship reminds me of the first tax crisis. Hugely pissing off everybody and this time instigating some rebellions over what they think are indirect taxes in the most condescending way possible. Too bad this time we lack priests telling the population that the King speaks for the Gods and everyone just nodding along except for the young nobles.
 
Academia Nut said:
Locking in as [X] Stewardship

Now meditate on what might happen when a king realizes that defaulting on a loan from the Ymaryn may in fact be cheaper than properly hiring economic advisers, and how that might play out...
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"So, you want to use your kingdom as collateral... for a 10$ loan? That shall be paid over a hundred year period?"
"Yes, I believe that should be sufficient?"
"...Alright."
*1 month later*
"Your Majesty, you need to pay your loans."
"Sorry, I don't have enough to cover it. I'll have to default."
"...*Sigh* I'll send the advisors tomorrow."
 
Academia Nut said:
Locking in as [X] Stewardship

Now meditate on what might happen when a king realizes that defaulting on a loan from the Ymaryn may in fact be cheaper than properly hiring economic advisers, and how that might play out...
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Hopefully we'll be adroit in using that to influence their asset management to our political advantage and learn to build fee structures into defaults.
 
Citino said:
"So, you want to use your kingdom as collateral... for a 10$ loan? That shall be paid over a hundred year period?"
"Yes, I believe that should be sufficient?"
"...Alright."
*1 month later*
"Your Majesty, you need to pay your loans."
"Sorry, I don't have enough to cover it. I'll have to default."
"...*Sigh* I'll send the advisors tomorrow."
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#TimelineWeirdness
 
SeptimusMagisto said:
Oh no. What a nightmare. Whatever shall we do.
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Well, on the bright side, our diplomats are going to be happy :V

DkArthas said:
How fucked are we? Any idea.
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Depends on the rolls, probably. Like, having Ymaryn Economic Advisors attached to many kingdoms would give us more info than anyone else on... well, pretty much everything. It would also make the Ymaryn Central Bank pretty attractive for even international groups, since having them refuse to take your stuff if you default and instead make you work off your debt by being financially responsible is a lot nicer than the alternative.

On the other hand, it's also the stuff of a diplomat's worst nightmares...

Not to mention it's waaaaay more complex than the other options were.
 
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