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Paths of Civilization

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Warlord D Thoran said:
i believe a new map needs to be made
as i just don't understand the great changes the last few turns
who is who
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This should help you get started.
Academia Nut said:
Gylruv -> Russia
Kielmry Triple Crown -> Kalmar Union (Scandinavia)
Black Sheep -> Mughals
Kus Petty Kingdoms -> Indian Kingdoms
Greater Undikus Kingdoms -> South-East Asia
Khemetri -> Egypt
Greater Khem Eastern Kingdoms -> East Africa
Greater Khem Western Kingdoms -> West Africa
Hung -> China
Nohon -> Japan
Mapanca -> Mapuche + Inca
Sketch -> British
Halvyni -> Dutch
Styrmyr -> Hungary
Hespranxer -> Spain + France
Wyrmyn -> Poland
Vortuga -> Portugal + Spain

There are also other groups who are minor (Irish, Basques) or out of what you can really influence to your interests (Germany, Italy) and hundreds of other minor groups.
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@Academia Nut now that we are contemplating integration with Gylruv, could you elaborate all the ways they differ from us? You've told us how their government and administration looks but we know next to nothing about their religion, social values, class system beyond nobility, or ambitions of their various factions.
And any chance you could tell us what they have been focusing on this last turn, other than following our lead?

Another question I have is how exactly we got a part if Wyrmyr, seeing how we didn't have a land border with them. Is Gylruv facilitating administration and taxation rights for us or something?

Lastly, you never answered most of my last bunch of questions, but you also never stated your unwillingness to do so, or gave any indication of noticing them at all, really. Should I repost them, @Academia Nut?
 
Rafin said:
@Academia Nut now that we are contemplating integration with Gylruv, could you elaborate all the ways they differ from us? You've told us how their government and administration looks but we know next to nothing about their religion, social values, class system beyond nobility, or ambitions of their various factions.
And any chance you could tell us what they have been focusing on this last turn, other than following our lead?

Another question I have is how exactly we got a part if Wyrmyr, seeing how we didn't have a land border with them. Is Gylruv facilitating administration and taxation rights for us or something?

Lastly, you never answered most of my last bunch of questions, but you also never stated your unwillingness to do so, or gave any indication of noticing them at all, really. Should I repost them, @Academia Nut?
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We actually should have a land border with Wyrmyn: they were PLC-or-Poland, we controlled all of Yllthon (Black Sea) coast.
We probably ate the equivalent of southern/south-western/maybe some central Ukraine.
Decent agrarian land[1] and IRL it has some impressive iron and graphite deposits...oh and the second best source of manganese ore in the entire world.Plus some sources of copper and smallish of gold.
Not sure if that's the case over here, but overall a pretty good place to nab - both to feed the pops and to feed the fires of industry.

Gylruv, though, ate a big chunk of hyper-fertile soil and one of the bigger coal regions. The industrial development, if we do the education + financial + administrative + social reforms for FULLCAPITALISM, has a hell of potential.

[1] Ukraine has a basically natural equivalent (or superior?) of Ymaryn black soil, but it's more to the north-east and it's most likely not in the parts we've eaten
 
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[X] [Gylruv] Education reform (0.8x)

[X] [Outside] Subtly push the Black Sheep into splitting along an East-West fracture point so you can dominate the Western break (0.9x)
 
[X] [Gylruv] Mutual integration (1x)
[X] [Outside] Collaborate with the Khemetri on mutually strengthening measures (1.5x)

Massive increase in our military, economy, population and territory? YES! Sure there might be some instability but I think we can weather it out.... Also we have few friends, let's make those few that we have proper ones, that we can count on when things go sour.
 
[X] [Gylruv] Mutual integration (1x)
[X] [Outside] Subtly push the Black Sheep into splitting along an East-West fracture point so you can dominate the Western break (0.9x)

I dont get why the hell does the current vote is winning.
Isnt the objective of the last vote to reunite greater ymar?
Its even listed in an's post.
Agenda : Greater Ymar


These kind of conflicting agenda's is what will led to terrible outcomes for us.
With the power of gylruv and the territories of greather ymar, we will finally become a literal superpower. One which can make impactful changes in the world.\

Isnt Education reform at this point rebundant? :V
 
Without assistance the Mughals are going to collapse. Do we want that? We've established strong peace and trade treaties, and they're currently providing trade routes to both India and China, to say nothing of keeping the Europeans out. They have at least the potential to be a full quarter of the global GDP while being a friendly Ymaryn-descended state.
 
Lailoken said:
Without assistance the Mughals are going to collapse. Do we want that? We've established strong peace and trade treaties, and they're currently providing trade routes to both India and China, to say nothing of keeping the Europeans out. They have at least the potential to be a full quarter of the global GDP while being a friendly Ymaryn-descended state.
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Dont be stupid, better us that become the superpower than them :V
We can take their lands and become the one who provide the trade routes.

If you read carefully, it also mentioned that the north and western borders are hard for m7ghal to defend, Making their hold over it tenacious at best.
Which means it probably rebel in a few decades.
Which means still no trade route to india and china soon enough?

But if we take it, there will be and the plus is we get the money and power.
 
Korporati said:
Dont be stupid, better us that become the superpower than them :V
We can take their lands and become the one who provide the trade routes.

If you read carefully, it also mentioned that the north and western borders are hard for m7ghal to defend, Making their hold over it tenacious at best.
Which means it probably rebel in a few decades.
Which means still no trade route to india and china soon enough?

But if we take it, there will be and the plus is we get the money and power.
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(Hi. You are clearly inexperienced here. Don't do that again. You know what :V)

This would be true if we had the choice of taking over the entire empire. We don't. We are offered the chance to take over just the western part, which doesn't guarantee access to India, much less China.
 
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Hrm, Lailloken's point is valid. A healthy and stable Black Sheep is an influenceable state, especially on the matter of power projection...which does help a lot if we want to break the Syffrynites grip on the Kus, Undikus, and beyond. A potential synergy occurs in that, by stabilizing the BSheep as we do our reforms, it causes some bleed-over effects as they get adopted into the framework of the BSheep government system. Giving more cultural glue to prop us up even more. This is regardless of the fact that we're getting discontent BSheep lands on their western parts as they move more and more to the East.

Yes, I think this works.

[X] [Gylruv] Administrative reform (2x)
[X] [Gylruv] Education reform (0.8x)
[X] [Outside] Continue to assist the Black Sheep in having control over their internal and external policies (1.2x)

Breaking the Syffrynites can come later on, as much as I don't want to delay them, once we properly set up our levers into the Greater Undikus.
 
[X] [Gylruv] Land reform (1.8x)
[X] [Outside] Send diplomats to Tortun and Styrmyr groups to solidify a peaceful western land border (1x)
 
ctulhuslp said:
could you please clarify: what would Educational Reform (and Social one too) entail? Would it mean independent educational institutions by Gylruv or expansion of Ymaryn-cultured ones in their lands?
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Educational reform would involve improving the methods that the Gylruv use to teach their minor nobility and up. While this would make your universities comparatively less attractive, the initial crop of teachers and the curriculum would be set by you. More than that, it would hopefully make the idea of an educated nobility rather than a purely military elite a more attractive one, so there would be less issue with say a Ymaryn upper nobility ruling over a vast collection of boyars who don't respect them and who have little opportunity to travel somewhere where they might get a good education.

Social reform would be smoothing out some of the more problematic relationships between the nobility, merchants, and peasants to reduce the chances of some sort of revolt against distant power.

ctulhuslp said:
I mean. What they are doing then with all the firearms? Just sitting there?
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Bullying Not!Korea to a large extent. The Yi Sun-shin expie had a quiet career reforming border forts and beating steppe nomads into submission before having a comfortable retirement far from power, the king worried about the threat of a max stat general in his ranks, and just had him sit around doing nothing. A few years later the Nohon showed up, having actually managed to buy a pair of caravels off some desperate Sketch merchants. The Hung showed up, but by then the country had already been overrun and they had their own problems. The Nohon aren't exactly holding the territory as well as they could, but it has become a useful place to deploy dangerous warriors without needing to completely disarm the entire country.
 
Academia Nut said:
Educational reform would involve improving the methods that the Gylruv use to teach their minor nobility and up. While this would make your universities comparatively less attractive, the initial crop of teachers and the curriculum would be set by you. More than that, it would hopefully make the idea of an educated nobility rather than a purely military elite a more attractive one, so there would be less issue with say a Ymaryn upper nobility ruling over a vast collection of boyars who don't respect them and who have little opportunity to travel somewhere where they might get a good education.

Social reform would be smoothing out some of the more problematic relationships between the nobility, merchants, and peasants to reduce the chances of some sort of revolt against distant power.



Bullying Not!Korea to a large extent. The Yi Sun-shin expie had a quiet career reforming border forts and beating steppe nomads into submission before having a comfortable retirement far from power, the king worried about the threat of a max stat general in his ranks, and just had him sit around doing nothing. A few years later the Nohon showed up, having actually managed to buy a pair of caravels off some desperate Sketch merchants. The Hung showed up, but by then the country had already been overrun and they had their own problems. The Nohon aren't exactly holding the territory as well as they could, but it has become a useful place to deploy dangerous warriors without needing to completely disarm the entire country.
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What about administrative reform? Since it has such big weight, do People think it's really important?
 
[X] [Outside] Send diplomats to Tortun and Styrmyr groups to solidify a peaceful western land border (1x)
[X] [Outside] Collaborate with the Khemetri on mutually strengthening measures (1.5x)
[X] [Outside] Continue to assist the Black Sheep in having control over their internal and external policies (1.2x)


[X] [Gylruv] Education reform (0.8x)
[X] [Gylruv] Social reform (1.5x)
 
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[X] [Gylruv] Social reform (1.5x)

It sounds like this is necessary for a smooth take over.

Education reform can come after the social reform. They need to see themselves as Ymaryn first before anything else - even if it's only their own version of what it means to be Ymaryn. They have to see themselves as, well, a race of People.

[X] [Outside] Subtly push the Black Sheep into splitting along an East-West fracture point so you can dominate the Western break (0.9x)

Not sure about this. Would like it to happen but I don't know about being directly rexsponsible.

And I hope that's culturally dominate and not militaristically dominate.

To use a Civ VI Rise and Fall term I hope their loyalty flips.
 
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[X] [Outside] Send diplomats to Tortun and Styrmyr groups to solidify a peaceful western land border (1x)
[X] [Outside] Collaborate with the Khemetri on mutually strengthening measures (1.5x)
[X] [Outside] Continue to assist the Black Sheep in having control over their internal and external policies (1.2x)

[X] [Gylruv] Social reform (1.5x)
 
[X] [Gylruv] Social reform (1.5x)
[X] [Outside] Subtly push the Black Sheep into splitting along an East-West fracture point so you can dominate the Western break (0.9x)
[X] [Outside] Collaborate with the Khemetri on mutually strengthening measures (1.5x)
 
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Inserted tally, except I decided to count the multipliers:
[52] [Gylruv] Administrative reform (2x)
26*2 = 52
[26,4] [Gylruv] Education reform (0.8x)
33*0,8 = 26,4
[18] [Gylruv] Social reform (1.5x)
12*1,5 = 18
[16] [Gylruv] Mutual integration (1x)
16*1 = 16
[5,4] [Gylruv] Land reform (1.8x)
3*1,8 = 5,4
[2] [Gylruv] Financial reform (1x)
2*1 = 2

[32,4] [Outside] Continue to assist the Black Sheep in having control over their internal and external policies (1.2x)
27*1,2 = 32,4
[31,5] [Outside] Collaborate with the Khemetri on mutually strengthening measures (1.5x)
21*1,5 = 31,5
[26] [Outside] Send diplomats to Tortun and Styrmyr groups to solidify a peaceful western land border (1x)
26*1 = 26
[16,2] [Outside] Subtly push the Black Sheep into splitting along an East-West fracture point so you can dominate the Western break (0.9x)
18*0,9 = 16,2
[4] [Outside] Increase aid to groups opposed to the Syffrynites (2x)
2*2 = 4
Adhoc vote count started by PurposefulZephyr on Feb 24, 2018 at 10:47 AM, finished with 144587 posts and 64 votes.
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Alpha industrial/space age system design
  • Informational
    • Alpha review of proposed new system for Industrial+ polities (currently most useful for Space Age+ polities)

    Econ
    Industrial capacity (Represents freely available throughput capacity)
    Developed (Represents amount of capacity that can produced)
    Pollution (Environmental and ecological damage caused by amount of development, high pollution can reduce Happiness, Living Standards, and have other effects)

    Culture
    Consciousness (Awareness of social issues and own place within the universe, influences Political Will, Happiness, and social type research)
    Standard of Living (Economic output devoted towards consumer goods, entertainment, etc. High standard of living increases Happiness, while low standard of living decreases Happiness)
    Happiness (How pleased the population is in general with their lot in life. High happiness improves certain actions, while low happiness risks insurrection, revolt, or civil war)

    Technology
    Academies (Top level intellectual throughput, determines how many highest level projects can be worked on at once)
    Education (General level of population education, determines research speeds and number of Academies that can be sustained, also influences Consciousness)
    Innovation (Level of lower level research done, leading to unexpected breakthroughs and new potential paths to take)

    Diplomacy
    Trust (How much you are generally trusted by others to mean what you say)
    Espionage (Capacity for covert and subversive actions)

    Martial
    Militancy (Social acceptability of using violence to solve problems - internally or externally - influences Happiness, Political Will, and military type research)
    Armies (General capacity for ground combat)
    Fleets (General capacity for sea/space combat [depending on era])

    Political Will - determines action throughput; influenced by Consciousness, Militancy, government type, economic type, events, and turn actions

    The idea here is that you might have action lists with examples like say:

    Develop Industry - Min. Industrial Capacity 1
    1 Political Will, Increases Industrial Capacity by 1, Uses up 1 free Development

    Increase Living Standards - Min. Industrial Capacity 1
    1 Political Will, Temp Reduces Industrial Capacity by 1, Temp Increases Living Standards by 1
    2 Political Will, Reduces Industrial Capacity by 1, Increases Living Standards by 1

    Free Up Industry - Min. Permanent Living Standards 1
    2 Political Will, Reduces Living Standards by 1, Increases Living Standards by 1

    Improve Education - Min. Permanent Living Standards 1
    2 Political Will, Reduces Living Standards by 1, Increases Education and Innovation by 1

    I will work up a proper design document, but I hope this gets the idea across for what I am currently envisioning, so that feedback can be made.
     
  • Informational
    • [X] [Gylruv] Financial reform (1x)
    [X] [Gylruv] Social reform (1.5x)

    [X] [Outside] Send diplomats to Tortun and Styrmyr groups to solidify a peaceful western land border (1x)
     
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    Lailoken said:
    (Hi. You are clearly inexperienced here. Don't do that again. You know what :V)

    This would be true if we had the choice of taking over the entire empire. We don't. We are offered the chance to take over just the western part, which doesn't guarantee access to India, much less China.
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    Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you can call them inexperienced

    Looking from my lack of profile picture, aren't you :V

    HEY YOU ARE INEXPERIENCED, so I AM RIGHT. :V

    This just shows how you didn't intend to debate it instead you try to make my point moot by calling me inexperienced, which shows your true intentions of writing that, which is to moot my point by accusing me inexperienced. :)
    because I been in sv for quite some time and been in this quest since it's fucking start thank you :)

    Not to mention, You didn't exactly refute my point that black sheep's western and Northern Territory is prone to rebellion and their hold over them is shaky.

    Which means we are losing access to India and China soon regardless, which is why we should try to secure it. That is why we must seize it now.

    Sigh, these kind of purposeful ignorance and calling people inexperienced instead of good debating that led to the previous great salt and thread lock.
     
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