No, they were formed by those dudes to the east we've vassalised, at least in part.
So, as ex-our-vassal-for-millenia who was close-ish to our core they are probably the culturally closest country around...well. Now that we've started seriously culture-influencing Gylruv, it may not be the case anymore, but still.

They were nomads who settled in not-Iran after the Khan came through, and absorbed locals and eastern Ymaryn that survived by adopting pastoralism. Of course as they eat more of the Tea Kingdoms they'll probably diverge more and more culturally from the Ymaryn, like the Mughals did from the Timurids. They might also pick up more sophisticated administration techniques and more stable forms of government from the conquered peoples...
 
The attraction of the Black sheet is two fold, for one they are culturally similar to us and lack a strong central administration so there is the hope of absorbing them, secondly since they are the major power on the other side of us deepening ties with them would reduce our dependence on Gylruv. Since they also control our trading routes to the monsoon sea they become even more valuable.
 
They were nomads who settled in not-Iran after the Khan came through, and absorbed locals and eastern Ymaryn that survived by adopting pastoralism. Of course as they eat more of the Tea Kingdoms they'll probably diverge more and more culturally from the Ymaryn, like the Mughals did from the Timurids. They might also pick up more sophisticated administration techniques and more stable forms of government from the conquered peoples...

mmmmyeah
Come to think of it, deepening ties with them will at least partially take form of them taking up our ideas and studying from our scholars, so it may well strengthen and centralize their government.
 
They were nomads who settled in not-Iran after the Khan came through, and absorbed locals and eastern Ymaryn that survived by adopting pastoralism. Of course as they eat more of the Tea Kingdoms they'll probably diverge more and more culturally from the Ymaryn, like the Mughals did from the Timurids. They might also pick up more sophisticated administration techniques and more stable forms of government from the conquered peoples...
mmmmyeah
Come to think of it, deepening ties with them will at least partially take form of them taking up our ideas and studying from our scholars, so it may well strengthen and centralize their government.
I've been pushing for Black Sheep ties in the hopes that the Mountain Horse will willingly join us once the whole mess collapses, but if you guys are right then we might end up saving the Not!Indians instead. With their demographic, cultural, and economic weight, they'll do to the Black Sheep what we're doing to the Gylruv. United and protected under a single Black Sheep Emperor, Not!India will be well prepared against Western colonialism.
Unless some idiot Emperor gets too mighty and picks a stupid fight anyways. If that happens we can use our increased ties to shield ourselves and reel in the Mountain Horse as planned.
 
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I've been pushing for Black Sheep ties in the hopes that the Mountain Horse will willingly join us once the whole mess collapses, but if you guys are right then we might end up saving the Not!Indians instead. With their demographic, cultural, and economic weight, they'll do to the Black Sheep what we're doing to the Gylruv. United and protected under a single Black Sheep Emperor, Not!India will be well prepared against Western colonialism.

......
That's some Reaper logic right here: "we wanted to protect you from invasion so we helped the invaders".
Like, literally Reaper logic.

We can just as well directly poke the not!India and not!Indonesia and teach them the better administration so that they can unite and punch colonialists in their dicks.
They are both disunited; them being united would be a hell of counterweight to colonialists - and them being stronger producers of stuff, combined with establishing ties involving trade, will likely mean some dosh earned via Triple Crown - Indias route on which we sit.
 
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[X] Kus Petty Kingdoms (1x)
[X] Greater Undikus Kingdoms (1.2x)
[X] Khemetri (1.5x)
[X] Greater Khem Eastern Kingdoms (1.2x)
[X] Greater Khem Western Kingdoms (1x)
[X] Hung (1x)
[X] Nohon (1x)
[X] Mapanca (1.1x)
[X] Sketch (0.9x)
[X] Halvyni (0.9x)
[X] Styrmyr (0.5x)
[X] Hespranxer (0.2x)
[X] Wyrmyn (0.1x)
[X] Vortuga (0.05x)

Approval voting for all of these just to make sure they are at least considered in the Ymaryn hive mind, instead of our votes being interpreted as only monofocusing on the winning vote.
 
[X] Kus Petty Kingdoms (1x)
[X] Greater Undikus Kingdoms (1.2x)
[X] Khemetri (1.5x)
[X] Greater Khem Eastern Kingdoms (1.2x)
[X] Greater Khem Western Kingdoms (1x)
[X] Hung (1x)
[X] Nohon (1x)
[X] Mapanca (1.1x)
[X] Sketch (0.9x)
[X] Halvyni (0.9x)
[X] Styrmyr (0.5x)
[X] Hespranxer (0.2x)
[X] Wyrmyn (0.1x)
[X] Vortuga (0.05x)

Approval voting for all of these just to make sure they are at least considered in the Ymaryn hive mind, instead of our votes being interpreted as only monofocusing on the winning vote.
I am pretty sure that they are all sorta considered, given that the update text explicitly states the activity our diplomats are engaging in all over the world.

These ones are just those with extra effort put in, I think.
 
......
That's some Reaper logic right here: "we wanted to protect you from invasion so we helped the invaders".
Like, literally Reaper logic.

We can just as well directly poke the not!India and not!Indonesia and teach them the better administration so that they can unite and punch colonialists in their dicks.
They are both disunited; them being united would be a hell of counterweight to colonialists - and them being stronger producers of stuff, combined with establishing ties involving trade, will likely mean some dosh earned via Triple Crown - Indias route on which we sit.
I really can't see Not!India becoming unified without some powerful authority figure forcing everyone together first. These guys don't know how powerful the Westerners are going to become, and that means they'll focus on internal disputes like they have for the last millennia. They'll gleefully sell them "useless" bits of coastal lands and make "meaningless" concessions if it means getting advantages over their rival neighbours. And if unity can't come from within, why not from a foreign ruler that they can relatively easily assimilate?
 
I really can't see Not!India becoming unified without some powerful authority figure forcing everyone together first. These guys don't know how powerful the Westerners are going to become, and that means they'll focus on internal disputes like they have for the last millennia. They'll gleefully sell them "useless" bits of coastal lands and make "meaningless" concessions if it means getting advantages over their rival neighbours. And if unity can't come from within, why not from a foreign ruler that they can relatively easily assimilate?
Because it is evil and wrong and should never happen./s
 
I really can't see Not!India becoming unified without some powerful authority figure forcing everyone together first. These guys don't know how powerful the Westerners are going to become, and that means they'll focus on internal disputes like they have for the last millennia. They'll gleefully sell them "useless" bits of coastal lands and make "meaningless" concessions if it means getting advantages over their rival neighbours. And if unity can't come from within, why not from a foreign ruler that they can relatively easily assimilate?

Well, for one, we can talk to them about the colonialists and show them maps and shit and explain how they need to band together.
I hope we can at least.

@Academia Nut , do our diplomats think we have a shot at nudging Kus Kingdoms to band together (be it via backing strongest local one or putting out there idea of defensive alliance against outsiders or Kus!HRE arrangement or whatever) against both Sheep and colonialists instead of siding with colonial powers?
 
I get why people are voting for Gylruv (similar culture and potential assimilation), but why Black sheep?
They are way too different to be assimilated and are in possession of our former lands that we want to reclaim. Why would we want deeper ties with them?
Actually, portions of the Black Sheep are the most Ymaryn, and the BS are a disparate melting pot of different races, religions, and political structures. Sinking our claws into it should be relatively easy and super effective.

People don't want to simply hold hands with the BS and sing kumbaya. They want to diplomatically foment tension and get Ymaryn clay back while breaking a regional rival.
 
So it appears that diplomatic outreach is going to be
Primary: Gylruv
Secondary: Kielmyr
Secondary: Black Sheep

Agendas:
Primary: Greater Ymar
Secondary: Great North-South Road
Secondary: Anti-West Economic Alliance

do our diplomats think we have a shot at nudging Kus Kingdoms to band together (be it via backing strongest local one or putting out there idea of defensive alliance against outsiders or Kus!HRE arrangement or whatever) against both Sheep and colonialists instead of siding with colonial powers?

Right now the idea is going to be to nudge the Black Sheep into recognizing the wider impact of their actions and see if you can get them to scare the crap out of their neighbours less and offer better protection deals instead of letting the Syffrynites take advantage of the chaos they are sowing.
 
Actually, portions of the Black Sheep are the most Ymaryn, and the BS are a disparate melting pot of different races, religions, and political structures. Sinking our claws into it should be relatively easy and super effective.

People don't want to simply hold hands with the BS and sing kumbaya. They want to diplomatically foment tension and get Ymaryn clay back while breaking a regional rival.

But the "diplomatic outreach" is the exact opposite of "subversive activities and fermenting discord".
This one we are doing - polity-to-polity outreach - is more likely to teach their rulers values of good bureaucracy, administration, education and national ideas.


and ninjad by AN; but yeah, it was polity-to-polity outreach and we strengthened them. With the result of sharing border with militaristic rival who now has better grasp of diplomacy and stuff.
Well let's see.
 
So it appears that diplomatic outreach is going to be
Primary: Gylruv
Secondary: Kielmyr
Secondary: Black Sheep

Agendas:
Primary: Greater Ymar
Secondary: Great North-South Road
Secondary: Anti-West Economic Alliance



Right now the idea is going to be to nudge the Black Sheep into recognizing the wider impact of their actions and see if you can get them to scare the crap out of their neighbours less and offer better protection deals instead of letting the Syffrynites take advantage of the chaos they are sowing.
Well, this could go very well, or very, very badly, I suspect.
 
So it appears that diplomatic outreach is going to be
Primary: Gylruv
Secondary: Kielmyr
Secondary: Black Sheep

Agendas:
Primary: Greater Ymar
Secondary: Great North-South Road
Secondary: Anti-West Economic Alliance



Right now the idea is going to be to nudge the Black Sheep into recognizing the wider impact of their actions and see if you can get them to scare the crap out of their neighbours less and offer better protection deals instead of letting the Syffrynites take advantage of the chaos they are sowing.
Man, and I just got to bed. I'll have to wait for the update now.
 
I am mildly unhappy with the result since I am not sure we want militaristic neighbour to git gud at holding their conquests instead of just swinging their sword around for a couple of centuries and then going irrelevant. However, they may as well fill the role I envisioned Khemetri filling - uniting smaller powers in their region (India).

If we can ensure non-hostile relationship with Black Sheep (ergo, keep up diplomacy and limit our ambitions to somewhere else) it may well have been an unexpectedly good decision.
 
Right now the idea is going to be to nudge the Black Sheep into recognizing the wider impact of their actions and see if you can get them to scare the crap out of their neighbours less and offer better protection deals instead of letting the Syffrynites take advantage of the chaos they are sowing.
Ymaryn Mob Boss: "Look, dudes, you are doing protection rackets wrong. You don't need to intimidate them. Theres lots of things for them to be intimidated by. You just make sure the fire is warm and let them know you could help them if only they let you...."
 
I am mildly unhappy with the result since I am not sure we want militaristic neighbour to git gud at holding their conquests instead of just swinging their sword around for a couple of centuries and then going irrelevant. However, they may as well fill the role I envisioned Khemetri filling - uniting smaller powers in their region (India).

If we can ensure non-hostile relationship with Black Sheep (ergo, keep up diplomacy and limit our ambitions to somewhere else) it may well have been an unexpectedly good decision.

Silly ctulhuslp. We aren't just teaching them how to hold onto their stuff, but proper courtship technique!

How else do they think they can come back together with Ymaryn-chan?
 
I think one of the best things the Ymaryn can do right now would be to reestablish the International Games, especially the Artisan Games, and invite everybody. This will help with so many things, and give us opportunities beside that.

First up, we're behind technologically. Artisan Games allow us to share innovation with everybody, so that issue quietly dies. And with our production capabilities, being on equal technological footing means we're ahead.

Next, we don't like colonialism. Well, the same innovation sharing that helps us will also help everybody who is being colonialised. Taking over a country becomes a lot harder when the locals aren't two or three tech levels behind. This allows us to stop Vortug without direction opposing them. We can do it while being friendly with them if we want. Better than that, it means that Vortug themselves will inadvertently help bring their victims up to date with technology so that they can better oppose the Vortug.

But maybe you think that Vortug doesn't want to join these games if they have these consequences. Well, the brilliant part of the Artisan Games are that they self-policing once they have momentum. You share innovation. Once there are enough people in the games, that will out-innovate anybody else. So if you aren't in the Games, you fall behind. It also keeps people from leaving the International Games, for the same reason.

And Ymaryn is traditionally the host of the Games. Doing this would reaffirm us as the successor state of Old Ymarym, which helps with the greater Ymar project.

Not to mention the tourism and prestige that being the host of the game will bring. Tourism which provides a convenient vector to infect the entire world with our culture - oh, hey, that should help against slavery. Unlike RL, we don't need to switch hosts and share those benefits, we can get them every time. And of course the costs for building appropriate facilities and infrastructure to host such Games will only be necessary once, after that it's just maintenance. So it will be a lot cheaper than having it in a different place each time as well.

Next up, we would be the host and get to choose who to invite to the Games. Effectively we get to decide who is a country in the public eye. I'm not talking about the big ones that are obvious, but the edge cases. Provinces, vassals and colonies that want to break free... are they considered their own nation or not? What about loosely tied together minor kingdoms? Is a personal union two countries or one? There are lots of subtle decisions. And sure, there may be official statements by other great nations about who they think is a country. But who reads those? The International Games are inherently entertainment. They generate attention. If somebody is invited to the Games, the public will consider them a country, and such pervasive attitudes tend to have longterm effects.

So there are plenty of benefits. Yet is this possible? The costs would mostly be diplomatic, ensuring that as many countries as possible show up - preferably everybody. But we have been focusing on diplomacy for a while now. Yes, it was only lightning rounds, but those covered a lot of time. So in universe this has been a longterm focus. And we have diplo heroes. And other than diplomacy the cost is just infrastructure which we should have no problem building.

And while we're at it, let's add Scholar Games (updated version of proposed Clerk Games), because why not.
 
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