Paths of Civilization

Alratan · Dec 2, 2017

Sigh. We now have a massive excess of Forestry, and we're short on actions.

We're now in a really pretty crap position for next turn. We've locked in a really bad repeated action, and we haven't done anything to set us up for what we actually need to do.

This was a real mistake. Unless we get very, very lucky on the reaction, we're in real trouble for next turn.

Susano · Dec 2, 2017

SpeckofStardust said:
Or maybe we need to stop forcible rising the bottom causing the drop of those barely hanging onto whatever higher stations they are at.
You arnt rising the bucket, your compressing the cooker, and now the top is trying to pop off.

I have no idea what you're trying to say, and can't recognize any actual argument.

SpeckofStardust · Dec 2, 2017

DragonParadox said:
Byword of AN it takes multiple generations for a family to rise though each social class. I think we are fine on that front.

And all it takes is a single fuck up for one to fall, which is kinda unavoidable when you enforce a sudden and unprepared change to the economics of everything.

HeWhoAdds · Dec 2, 2017

@Academia Nut, are there any buildings/infrastructure that get the Yeomen extra actions? Like, Canals or something?

DragonParadox · Dec 2, 2017

SpeckofStardust said:
And all it takes is a single fuck up for one to fall, which is kinda unavoidable when you enforce a sudden and unprepared change to the economics of everything.

Where did you get that idea? Falling in social rank can't be orders of magnitude faster than rising because the two have to balance each other out by definition.

notgreat · Dec 2, 2017

Alratan said:
Sigh. We now have a massive excess of Forestry, and we're probably short on actions.

Well, it's preparing for next turn. The patricians will swap to supporting themselves, so the Yeomen lose a passive. The cities go online, killing off the Yeomen actions.

We have an excess since now we've got +5 forests per turn for the first turn, but that'll just go into reestablishing our buffer that's just about run out.

Also, the defense passive wasn't being very useful. Building Colossal Walls, it was effectively acting as an undoubled Admin Infrastructure passive (hence my vote to shift it to a doubled Admin Infrastructure)

I don't like it, but it's not gonna be a major problem.

George · Dec 2, 2017

Alratan said:
Sigh. We now have a massive excess of Forestry, and we're probably short on actions.

2.5 per turn seems pretty reasonable to me.

notgreat said:
Well, it's preparing for next turn. The patricians will swap to supporting themselves, so the Yeomen lose a passive. The cities go online, killing off the Yeomen actions.

We have an excess since now we've got +5 forests per turn for the first turn, but that'll just go into reestablishing our buffer that's just about run out.

Also, the defense passive wasn't being very useful. Building Colossal Walls, it was effectively acting as an undoubled Admin Infrastructure passive (hence my vote to shift it to a doubled Admin Infrastructure)

I don't like it, but it's not gonna be a major problem.

How is it +5 per turn?

Kiba · Dec 2, 2017

The Tree Faction is very happy because we believe you can never have too much forestry.

SpeckofStardust · Dec 2, 2017

DragonParadox said:
Where did you get that idea? Falling in social rank can't be orders of magnitude faster than rising because the two have to balance each other out by definition.

It does when the number of people rising vastly out numbers the number of people falling.

Susano · Dec 2, 2017

SpeckofStardust said:
And all it takes is a single fuck up for one to fall, which is kinda unavoidable when you enforce a sudden and unprepared change to the economics of everything.

Okay, from what I can gather from your posts, you... you want us to feel sorry for the... uh, for the best situated people in our society? What?

"Oh noes! If a family slips up they won't be in the top 0.1% of our society anymore, but only the top 1%!"

Nevermind the 99% of people who do have it worse...

Alratan · Dec 2, 2017

notgreat said:
Well, it's preparing for next turn. The patricians will swap to supporting themselves, so the Yeomen lose a passive. The cities go online, killing off the Yeomen actions.

We have an excess since now we've got +5 forests per turn for the first turn, but that'll just go into reestablishing our buffer that's just about run out.

Also, the defense passive wasn't being very useful. Building Colossal Walls, it was effectively acting as an undoubled Admin Infrastructure passive (hence my vote to shift it to a doubled Admin Infrastructure)

I don't like it, but it's not gonna be a major problem.

Ok. Imagine that our reaction choice this turn is Distribute Land or nothing, or Build Mills, or something else that doesn't cost EE. As a result, no cities come on line. Next turn, the Yeomen do double Main Black Soil, and laugh as they pop our cities.

We still need four actions to properly suppress the Patricians, and we have three.

SpeckofStardust · Dec 2, 2017

Susano said:
Okay, from what I can gather from your posts, you... you want us to feel sorry for the... uh, for the best situated people in our society? What?

I do when their holding this nation together?

DragonParadox · Dec 2, 2017

SpeckofStardust said:
It does when the number of people rising vastly out numbers the number of people falling.

Well yes at the very top, but the rate of falling decelerates as they go. They do not exactly end up as beggars of the streets.

SpeckofStardust · Dec 2, 2017

DragonParadox said:
Well yes at the very top, but the rate of falling decelerates as they go. They do not exactly end up as beggars of the streets.

Well of course not its just you know we don't have beggars on the streets, Everyone gets food even before the latest reforms.

Astra Stargazer · Dec 2, 2017

SpeckofStardust said:
I do when their holding this nation together?

They but a part of the whole, we can address their concerns without giving way to them, or giving them the ability to abuse their fellow Ymaryn.

8bitBob · Dec 2, 2017

George said:
How is it +5 per turn?

Repeated Expand Forest = 2
1 player passive = 1
2 faction passives = 2

5 total.

HeWhoAdds · Dec 2, 2017

Alratan said:
We still need four actions to properly suppress the Patricians, and we have three.

No, we have 4? 4 base + 1 GP secondary - 1 Repeated Forest = 4

And we could pretty easily go Sec Hunt, Sec Suppress, Sec Enforce Justice for Patrician Suppression duty.

BungieONI · Dec 2, 2017

HeWhoAdds said:
No, we have 4? 4 base + 1 GP secondary - 1 Repeated Forest = 4

And we could pretty easily go Sec Hunt, Sec Suppress, Sec Enforce Justice for Patrician Suppression duty.

Not quite.

~~We have 5 base.~~ Wait I sorta misread sorry! One comes from... I can't remember where I think its provinces or GP's, but its in the update. We can't put every action we have on repeat by design of the system. We always have to be able to do something I think is the reasoning, like unassign our repeated actions.

Then we donated one to forests and took one guild action.

So it goes:

[Secondary] These are totally free
[Secondary] \\
[Secondary] \\
[Secondary] \\
[Guild Secondary] This action is restricted to Guild Tagged actions. This includes the Harbour extended project.

Susano · Dec 2, 2017

SpeckofStardust said:
I do when their holding this nation together?

You know what AN said would happen if we destroy the Patrician faction? Two or three turns later we'd get a new patrician faction. That means we can't solve the problem of their existence... but it also means they are indeed replaceable. "Holding the nation together", what bullshit.

So you think the Patricians are entitled to be treated better than others? What, for being born right? What nonsense. We have to accept a modicum of hereditary elites, but we should keep that modicum as small as possible. Ideally, as much as our pre-modern society allows, everyone should have the chance to rise.

HeWhoAdds · Dec 2, 2017

BungieONI said:
Not quite.

We have 5 base. One comes from... I can't remember where I think its provinces or GP's, but its in the update. We can't put every action we have on repeat by design of the system. We always have to be able to do something I think is the reasoning, like unassign our repeated actions.

Then we donated one to forests and took one guild action.

So it goes:

[Secondary] These are totally free
[Secondary] \\
[Secondary] \\
[Secondary] \\
[Guild Secondary] This action is restricted to Guild Tagged actions. This includes the Harbour extended project.

Right, of course. Forgot we grabbed the Guild action. I'm not really sure that could be used to help with Patrician Suppression, though? Can they Improve Annual Festival or something?

Academia Nut · Dec 2, 2017

HeWhoAdds said:
are there any buildings/infrastructure that get the Yeomen extra actions? Like, Canals or something?

Nope!

Incidentally one of their favourite actions is New Settlement.

notgreat · Dec 2, 2017

George said:
How is it +5 per turn?

Ironworks 3 made iron tools common enough to boost Expand Forests and Forestry passive- they both give twice as many forests. It also made Expand Forests slightly worse relative to Forestry, though the innovation rolls still put the Expand Forests well ahead.

Alratan said:
Ok. Imagine that our reaction choice this turn is Distribute Land or nothing, or Build Mills, or something else that doesn't cost EE. As a result, no cities come online. Next turn, the Yeomen do double Main Black Soil, and laugh as they pop our cities.

We still need four actions to properly suppress the Patricians, and we have three.

When I said 'next turn' I actually meant 'the turn after the upcoming one', sorry for being imprecise. We've got 5 actions during the upcoming turn: 4 native, +1 from GPs, -1 from repeated, +1 from guilds.

And I'm not expecting the cities to come online this turn (though if given the opportunity I'll take them) My plan over the next two turns is:

notgreat said:
So, my 2-turn plan:
{S} Support Urban Poor
{S} Proclaim Glory
{S} Governor's Palace
{S} Warships
{S-g} Warships
King's Agenda: Connection (Governor's Palace)

Turn 2, assuming we get our 4 cities online, (granting +4 actions) and the GP finishes (+1) for a total of 9 secondaries but no Yeomen actions:
{S} Free City
{S} Free City x2

{S} Suppress Patricians
{S} Enforce Justice
{S} Festival
{S} Hunt Troublemakers

{S} Expand Econ
{S} Expand Econ x2
{S} Expand Econ x3

{S-g} Cement
King's Agenda: Urban Infrastructure (Block Housing for the Ironworks quest)

HeWhoAdds · Dec 2, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Incidentally one of their favourite actions is New Settlement.

Golly, I wonder why THAT is?

BungieONI · Dec 2, 2017

HeWhoAdds said:
Right, of course. Forgot we grabbed the Guild action. I'm not really sure that could be used to help with Patrician Suppression, though? Can they Improve Annual Festival or something?

Yeah like your statement was sorta correct in that we do have 4 Secondaries, but anyway *flaps hand at my post*.

And its not really that useful for Patrician suppression tbh, but it does let us work on the Guild Spite if we want.

Oh also we have King's Agenda too, which we could set to like restoration I think. That could do the stability repair and synergy and we jsut do the suppress but I don't quite trust that what with how powerful the Patricians will be.

HeWhoAdds · Dec 2, 2017

BungieONI said:
And its not really that useful tbh, but it does let us work on the Guild Spite if we want.

Oh also we have King's Agenda too, which we could set to like restoration I think. That could do the stability repair and synergy and we jsut do the suppress but I don't quite trust that what with how powerful the Patricians will be.

Do you think the guilds would consider it a dick move to steal their action then use it on something they want?

Paths of Civilization

Comma Queen

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Seven gremlins in a trench coat