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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Push the guilds to the limit to meet demands (Trade Tech for Wealth, up to 5 per phase, to attempt to top up Wealth)
 
Kiba said:
The overflow is a side benefit of the diplomacy gain. The International Games' purpose is to act as an embassy, promote peace and cooperation, not a wealth generation machine.
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You say that like it would not do both.

They would still be coming over to participate in both the physical and artisan games. They would still have a chance of gaining prestige and gain Martial Tolerance. For an additional Wealth cost, they would now also gain innovation rolls.
 
Umi-san said:
And what makes it valuable? Exclusivity. How much is exclusivity worth to you? That's what determines what you're willing to pay. And what makes it exclusive? The fact that some people aren't willing to pay for it.
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Flowers are in my opinion much more beautiful than a lump of yellow metal, but they're considerably less expensive. Exclusivity is not the only measure of value.

It may determine the price of an item, but if we value things purely by what we have to pay for them we might as well dig Rule of Gold out of its grave.
 
bluefur87 said:
Btw, someone convince me on the kick thing. That is, whether we should kick the war or not.

I'm kinda punch drunk from the 'of course this is happening' side of things and need someone to influence me to make questionable decisions!
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Here is what Abby said on the matter.

Academia Nut said:
Each mission has a chance to rock the enemy's face, opposed by what they muster up to throw at you. A Main basically gives you three to four shots at the enemy over the course of a full turn (about 20-25 years). divided up into a series of sub-turns. Success results in damage to their Martial score, and if you can fight on their territory you can damage their Econ and loot their Wealth (both if you take slaves) and potentially seize territory for incorporation into your territory. Because of the timing, choosing kicks later in the turn results in less effect than early in the turn, although you can also take a series of smaller stab hits and stab restoring actions in between to minimize the odds of crashing your own social integrity.
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Abby Normal said:
Oh yeah, good memory. Though its not quite that way. Its more "you get an extra war mission for the rest of the turn". So kicking now gets us an action now and an action next phase when the levy policy activates. So if we intend to kick at all during this war we should do so now.
[X][Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
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Abby Normal said:
Found (one of?) the quote(s?):

So yeah. If we want to kick at all this turn, do it now, not later.
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Kicks apply for every phase after they are used. Every phase. And they count as a Main War Mission.

So instead of a normal 2 to 3 Main War Missions per phase, if we kick now, we have 3 to 4 Main War Missions for the rest of the war. If we do it later then this phase we are slightly weaker. We can also completely tank the econ damage, and the econ lost to Storm Ymaryn will not be enough to appreciably effect Mass Levy's value of between 51 to 49 Martial.
 
[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Push the guilds to the limit to meet demands (Trade Tech for Wealth, up to 5 per phase, to attempt to top upWealth)
 
Abby Normal said:
This was specifically asked when we first got it, i think; I'll try and ifnd the quote but iirc AN said "It would only work sometimes, but it would be less refugees and more defection"
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I don't think that we have a problem with defection so long as it is from them to us. And honestly who would want to defect to some smelly Nomands.
 
Good enough for me!

[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Smiths work overtime! (-2 Tech/turn but can meet demand for trade)
 
[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Push the guilds to the limit to meet demands (Trade Tech for Wealth, up to 5 per phase, to attempt to top upWealth)
 
I'm just looking forward to the point that all the games participants call themselves some variation of Ymaryn. There could be the Storm Ymaryn, the Free Ymaryn, the Harmaryn, and the Ymaryn.
 
Okay, so, I may have missed this in the discussion but I noticed that there was no PSN vote - do we know if this is a proper midturn and it just didn't proc, or if the midturn is still upcoming?
 
Guys, we should push the guilds to their limit, not merely meet demand. This will cause them to get better at producing more stuff.

More wealth is more valuable during the war than hoarding our tech.
 
Janadus said:
Flowers are in my opinion much more beautiful than a lump of yellow metal, but they're considerably less expensive. Exclusivity is not the only measure of value.

It may determine the price of an item, but if we value things purely by what we have to pay for them we might as well dig Rule of Gold out of its grave.
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But exclusivity is part of the reason why flowers are so much cheaper than gold jewelry. Flowers are much easier to find and procure than gold.

Artisan games are already highly valued by our neighbors. So we charge them.
Wiadi said:
Okay, so, I may have missed this in the discussion but I noticed that there was no PSN vote - do we know if this is a proper midturn and it just didn't proc, or if the midturn is still upcoming?
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Midturn is still coming, we are about to enter an epic age...which means multiple phases.
 
wingstrike96 said:
[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Push the guilds to the limit to meet demands (Trade Tech for Wealth, up to 5 per phase, to attempt to top upWealth)
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Piren'e Colass said:
[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Push the guilds to the limit to meet demands (Trade Tech for Wealth, up to 5 per phase, to attempt to top upWealth)
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Both of you had spacing issue with your trade vote. Please try to fix it.
 
Sivantic said:
But exclusivity is part of the reason why flowers are so much cheaper than gold jewelry. Flowers are much easier to find and procure than gold.
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Currently, the Games are exclusive because even if one of the other local polities was willing to put in the work to start their own, nobody'd show up to the cheap knockoff when the real thing's still there.

Add a barrier to entry, though, and all of a sudden a bunch of people are left trying to decide whether the prestige is worth the cash - and once some start showing up to the new games, the prestige becomes that much less tilted our way.

Which means, if you actually want exclusivity, don't do something so stupid as demanding cash for entry.

Just gouge the tourists with knickknacks and gewgaws.
 
BungieONI said:
Kicks apply for every phase after they are used. Every phase. And they count as a Main War Mission.

So instead of a normal 2 to 3 Main War Missions per phase, if we kick now, we have 3 to 4 Main War Missions for the rest of the war. If we do it later then this phase we are slightly weaker. We can also completely tank the econ damage, and the econ lost to Storm Ymaryn will not be enough to appreciably effect Mass Levy's value of between 51 to 49 Martial.
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Switched. This is probably going to be short and bloody, but on the off chance it's not, we'll want more War Missions.

Sivantic said:
But exclusivity is part of the reason why flowers are so much cheaper than gold jewelry. Flowers are much easier to find and procure than gold.

Artisan games are already highly valued by our neighbors. So we charge them.
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My point is that you're taking a very narrow and short-term view of value.

Charging people wealth may make the games more "valuable" by making being included in them a point of prestige and by putting money in the bank, but it will degrade their actual value by excluding small states who can't afford to pay the Wealth reliably and by making the states who are involved resentful of being forced to pay to be part of them. That makes them inherently unstable and prone to competition, which will make maintenance difficult.

It's also pretty self-defeating. If you're going to have an international innovation engine, the more people you can get on board, the better.

Finally, the narrative effects of making the Artisan Games pay-to-play have ugly shades of elitism and nationalism that I don't care to have to deal with.
 
[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Smiths work overtime! (-2 Tech/turn but can meet demand for trade) ​
 
[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Smiths work overtime! (-2 Tech/turn but can meet demand for trade)
 
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 5215 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 130361-130577]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
Task: Inno
[46][Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[5][Inno] Something can be spared from the budget (-1 Wealth, -1 Mysticism, ???)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: AG
[44][AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[3][AG] Subsidize their involvement (Open games, -1 Wealth income per participant, increased innovation, ???)
[2][AG] Those things are expensive, they'll need to pay (Open games, Diplo income changed to Wealth income, ???)
[1][AG] No
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Policy
[47][Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[2][Policy] Switch to Offensive
[1][Policy] Stay on Balanced (Only mercenary companies and local defenses deployed for now)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Kick
[30][Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[14][Kick] No kick
[2][Kick] 2 Stability, 4 Temp Econ damage
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Trade
[26][Trade] Smiths work overtime! (-2 Tech/turn but can meet demand for trade)
[23][Trade] Push the guilds to the limit to meet demands (Trade Tech for Wealth, up to 5 per phase, to attempt to top up Wealth)
Total No. of Voters: 51
 
Tetsurou said:
[X] [Inno] Looks important, invest heavily (-3 Wealth, -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, ???)
[X] [AG] They may join (Open games, ???)
[X] [Policy] Switch to Mass Levy
[X] [Kick] 1 Stability, 2 Temp Econ damage
[X] [Trade] Smiths work overtime! (-2 Tech/turn but can meet demand for trade) ​
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Your font thingy is causing voting weirdness. Also, can you tell me the reason why we aren't going full tilt?

Once we're on mass levy, we will have limited options to increase econ OR wealth, and tech is less valuable now given that we are in a war.
 
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