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Paths of Civilization

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[X][Main] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley x2
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X][Secondary] Invite to Games - Forhuch
[X][Secondary] Support Faction - Traders
[X][Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
[X][Guild Secondary] Salterns
 
notgreat said:
We eat disease roll penalties even if we only touch overcrowding, even of we don't end the phase at overcrowding. Though ending the phase there is likely worse.
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EE refunds are instantaneous AFAIK.
notgreat said:
We'll have to overflow via [PSN] instead, hence why I'm advocating a [Main] Enforce Justice. And the province might do 3x Expand Econ in my plan if they think the disease rolls are worth it.
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We should be trying to overflow with BOTH instead of burning a bunch of EE with the Plant Crops action.
 
notgreat said:
Making the provinces do it. Also, we are too low on LTE right now and can't do more than a {M} Expand Econ without eating disease roll penalties.
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Have you EVER seen the provinces take a third expand econ? Because I haven't.

As for LTE, we absolutely can do more than a Main expand econ. We can go up to +8 over our cap without losing any LTE, and current income is +6. Therefore, if our actions net at most +2, we don't spend LTE.

Current winning plan as far as I can tell is
[Main] Great Dam
[Secondary] Support Faction - Traders
[Secondary] Enforce Justice
[Secondary] Invite to Games - Forhuch
[Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall
[Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley
[Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley x2
[Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
[Guild] Salterns
[Guild Secondary] Efficient Charcoal Kilns

The econ costs of this total 2 (dam) + 2 (annex) + 6 (temple) + 5 (textiles) + 6 (saltern) + 1 (kiln) = 22, and a Main Expand Econ offsets 12 of that, leaving 10. That means with this plan, we can do any combination of cutting 10+2 points of expenses or generating that same quantity of econ income without losing any LTE. In practice, it is likely even more than that, since our provinces are likely to take something that eats Econ as well.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Have you EVER seen the provinces take a third expand econ? Because I haven't.

As for LTE, we absolutely can do more than a Main expand econ. We can go up to +8 over our cap without losing any LTE, and current income is +6. Therefore, if our actions net at most +2, we don't spend LTE.

Current winning plan as far as I can tell is
[Main] Great Dam
[Secondary] Support Faction - Traders
[Secondary] Enforce Justice
[Secondary] Invite to Games - Forhuch
[Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall
[Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley
[Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley x2
[Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
[Guild] Salterns
[Guild Secondary] Efficient Charcoal Kilns

The econ costs of this total 2 (dam) + 2 (annex) + 6 (temple) + 5 (textiles) + 6 (saltern) + 1 (kiln) = 22, and a Main Expand Econ offsets 12 of that, leaving 10. That means with this plan, we can do any combination of cutting 10+2 points of expenses or generating that same quantity of econ income without losing any LTE. In practice, it is likely even more than that, since our provinces are likely to take something that eats Econ as well.
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Balanced is not obligated to take Expand Econ; in fact, if we take Main Expand Econ, I am reasonably sure it won't.
 
[X][Main] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X][Secondary] Invite to Games - Forhuch
[X][Secondary] Found March - Spirit Channel
[X][Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
 
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Changing my vote a touch. I think it is more important to found our march than to finish the temple, since I give high (50+%) odds that either our active or passive policies will take care of it.

[X][Main] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X][Secondary] Invite to Games - Forhuch
[X][Secondary] Expand Economy
[X][Secondary] Expand Economy x2
[X][Secondary] Found March - Spirit Channel
 
The most important at the moment would be markets, because markets will at the same time increase the access to goods as well as allow people to sell their goods more easily due to better access to their customers. After that, if have a labor shortage, we should look into creating better tools as well as invest in mills because water and would powered machinery would increase productivity enormously. For example better bellows would lead to hotter fire which would lead to hotter ovens, which would lead to more steel. Another idea would be better grist mills, because it would the daily grind, literally. And for construction, a water powered sawmills, stone cutters, and cranes powered by treadmills would be rather useful.
 
PrimalShadow said:
EE refunds are instantaneous AFAIK.
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That's what I thought, but we get a disease roll penalty apparently. AN answered it just a bit ago.
PrimalShadow said:
We should be trying to overflow with BOTH instead of burning a bunch of EE with the Plant Crops action.
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Yeah, I don't like it but we seriously don't have anything good for the guilds to be working on. Salterns suck too, costing a lot of stats in total and not paying off for a long time. The issue is we have to fill those main action slots and we don't have any good actions to do it with.

PrimalShadow said:
Have you EVER seen the provinces take a third expand econ? Because I haven't.
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For the winning plan: that's the point, we can't safely take more than what they're going to give
For my plan: Megaproject Support should allow it, we've just never been in a position where it would matter.

But w/e, I guess people don't want Megaproject Support so I'm not gonna push it. Don't forget that we've got 5 LTE incoming from the refugees, and we've got an additional City Support in there now.
Fixing our wealth all depends on what the provinces do, and on Balanced they're a wildcard whereas on Megaproject Support we know almost exactly what they'll do.
 
[X][Main] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley x2
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X][Secondary] Invite to Games - Forhuch
[X][Secondary] Support Faction - Traders
[X][Secondary] Expand Economy
[X][Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
[X][Guild Secondary] Salterns
 
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notgreat said:
That's what I thought, but we get a disease roll penalty apparently. AN answered it just a bit ago.
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We get a disease roll penalty for touching low EE. That doesn't mean EE refunds aren't instantaneous.

notgreat said:
Yeah, I don't like it but we seriously don't have anything good for the guilds to be working on. Salterns suck too, costing a lot of stats in total and not paying off for a long time. The issue is we have to fill those main action slots and we don't have any good actions to do it with.
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I disagree; salterns are nice. Remember that they also give Wealth payoffs when built.

notgreat said:
For the winning plan: that's the point, we can't safely take more than what they're going to give
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We are "safely" dropping below max Econ instead of getting overflow like we should be.
 
PrimalShadow said:
We get a disease roll penalty for touching low EE. That doesn't mean EE refunds aren't instantaneous.
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If they were then it'd be impossible to touch low EE, since if EE refunds come first there'd be no way to touch negative EE without also ending the phase there.

PrimalShadow said:
I disagree; salterns are nice. Remember that they also give Wealth payoffs when built.
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Last time it was calced to be a 2 diplo payoff (pre diplo-wealth split). It may have improved since then, but I doubt it. That means each one costs 6 stats and pays out 3 (one tech refunded), and gives 0.5 income. They're not the worst action we could take but they're certainly not good.
 
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Too much of this is unclear to me.

[X][Main] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Found March - Spirit Channel
[X][Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall
[X][Secondary] Support Faction - Traders
[X][Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
[X][Guild Secondary] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
 
*Looks at tally.*

Sigh, we've been over this people. Marches are preventative actions, not reactionary ones.

Do we need a March right this second? No, but the nomads generate heroic martial kings and like proving their worth by hitting the biggest guy around. That's us and we have a gaping hole in our defenses that we can shove a March into.

A march that will take several turns to build up. We need to do this now, not to just put it off for one more turn because surely we can wait. By the time we need the march there it will be 5 turns too late to start it.
 
[X][Main] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley x2
[X][Secondary] Found March - Spirit Channel
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X][Secondary] Invite to Games - Forhuch
[X][Secondary] Support Faction - Traders
What are our best Guild Actions, again? Saltern wouldn't be amiss, in any case.
[X][Guild Secondary] Salterns
 
Folks, what are uses of salt besides food?
Is there a point in doubling down on them - that is, double main or main+secondary? That'd be 12 or 9 progress instead of 6 from one Main.
EDIT:
Article:
Only about 6% of the salt manufactured in the world is used in food. Of the remainder, 12% is used in water conditioning processes, 8% goes for de-icing highways and 6% is used in agriculture. The rest (68%) is used for manufacturing and other industrial processes,[74]and sodium chloride is one of the largest inorganic raw materials used by volume. Its major chemical products are caustic soda and chlorine, which are separated by the electrolysis of a pure brine solution. These are used in the manufacture of PVC, plastics, paper pulpand many other inorganic and organic compounds. Salt is also used as a flux in the production of aluminium. For this purpose, a layer of melted salt floats on top of the molten metal and removes iron and other metal contaminants. It is also used in the manufacture of soaps and glycerine, where it is added to the vat to precipitate out the saponified products. As an emulsifier, salt is used in the manufacture of synthetic rubber, and another use is in the firing of pottery, when salt added to the furnace vaporises before condensing onto the surface of the ceramic material, forming a strong glaze.[75]
 
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PrimalShadow said:
Changing my vote a touch. I think it is more important to found our march than to finish the temple, since I give high (50+%) odds that either our active or passive policies will take care of it.
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Faction power too low. Assume spiteful elite factions will try to screw priests and urban poor in retaliation for what is perceived to be their fault
Academia Nut said:
Sivantic said:
@Academia Nut If we start the Temple, will our Passives finish it?
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*glances at current faction power* Possible, but not guaranteed.
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Obviously you COULD just take the risk, but it's a fair chunk lower than 50%, because they might deliberately ignore the temple even if we built half of it already.
And the temples would of course, be valuable in pushing the new beliefs out properly.
 
agumentic said:
[X][Main] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley
[X][Secondary] Upgrade Temple - Horse Valley x2
[X][Secondary] Found March - Spirit Channel
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X][Secondary] Invite to Games - Forhuch
[X][Secondary] Support Faction - Traders
What are our best Guild Actions, again? Saltern wouldn't be amiss, in any case.
[X][Guild Secondary] Salterns
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For the record, the march is in competition with the temple.

Like, I get the temple is a nice thing to do, but I'd much rather not have to deal with nomads breaking through the completely undefended pass to total all of our vassals in 2 phases of combat (before we can even react). Again.
ctulhuslp said:
Folks, what are uses of salt besides food?
Is there a point in doubling down on them - that is, double main or main+secondary? That'd be 12 or 9 progress instead of 6 from one Main.
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Erm. In an era where food preservation is hard and salt production can never meet demand? A lot.

Also the wealth drip.


That said, I'm way more hung up on not having the lowlands set on fire by nomads without having a nice march to at least slow them down so we can at least know to deploy our forces before half of the stuff is burning.
 
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