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Paths of Civilization

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DakkaMania said:
*snip old guess*
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Reworking my assumptions with the more accurate data thanks to @Malevolo

Total area is still about the same.

So 30 million hectare makes 153 million tons of wheat assuming low quality TP (20°C difference is hard to do at this tech level).

1 ton of wheat has 1 million calories means 153 million people theoretically possible. Subtract tens of millions due to low level of plant cultivation and diseases we can't really fight. But 100 million is still a solid estimate as to what is theoretically possible once we get the seed drill. Otherwise ~17 million on the upper end.

But once more, disease will murder us long before we get anywhere close to that level unless we sprawl out a lot more and have the lowlands export like crazy.

Before that, though, the Canal should allow us to boost the lowlands output considerably when they get full access to the Ironworks.
 
bluefur87 said:
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Do you mean (+3) and (+2) or [+3] and [+2]

Because the first is temporary income and the second is permanent income. As per the front page.

That is a +1 bonus to mysticism and a +2 bonus to culture from the current set.
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*facepalm* meant mysticism and tech, not mysticism and culture, i am a dumb :p

Going back to the math i did for @Academia Nut , here's how those three stats should go:
Culture 27
-2 (Palace Annex)
+1 (Blackbird)
+1 (Spiritbonded)
Subtotal: 27
+1 (Overflow from Mysticism)
-1 (Overflow to Diplo)
Total: 27

Mysticism 27 (+2)
-1 (Blackbirds)
-2 (Spiritbonded)
+2 (Pending)
Subtotal: 26
+2 (Overflow from Tech)
-1 (Overflow to Culture)
Subtotal: 27
+(+1) (Blackbirds Refund)
+(+2) (Spiritbonded Refund)
Total: 27 (+3)

Tech 27 (+6)
+6 (Pending)
-4 (Expand Econ)
Subtotal: 29
-2 (Overflow to Mysticism)
Subtotal: 27
+(+2) (Expand Econ Refunds)
Total: 27 (+2)

At this point the per turn income is accurate:
Culture: +3 (Free Cities) + 3.5 (7 Cities + Games) + 0.75 (Redshore Market) = 7.25 -> 7
Mysticism: +1 (Temple MP) + 2 (Dragon Graveyard Natural Wonder + lv 2 temple)
Tech: +1 (Arsenals) - 1 (City Support)
 
notgreat said:
Sure, what do we replace? I suppose we could drop the Support Faction - Traders because we don't really need that until next turn (when we need to nullify their spite quest).
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Either that or, if they threaten to hijack actions, Expand Econ.

notgreat said:
Forests are expensive. Each one is worth ~1.5 secondaries, AKA ~6 stats. With the massive infrastructure spam we can reasonably expect them to finish a bunch of baths soon (since they don't want us to die horribly of plague) and that means we need basically all of our current forest buffer. Hopefully they'll focus on the markets first, but we don't know that for certain.
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Yyes, but. Guild actions are not cheep.

Candesce said:
We need a repeating Forests action.

A repeating Expand Economy action would probably be a good idea, too.
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Roads tho.

notgreat said:
Forests are expensive. Each one is worth ~1.5 secondaries, AKA ~6 stats. With the massive infrastructure spam we can reasonably expect them to finish a bunch of baths soon (since they don't want us to die horribly of plague) and that means we need basically all of our current forest buffer. Hopefully they'll focus on the markets first, but we don't know that for certain.
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Come to think of it, we would really like to know. Maybe we should just spam Trade Policies instead. :V
@Academia Nut ,will newly-fangled Infras prioritize Markets with everything suddenly becoming more expensive?
 
Candesce said:
We need a repeating Forests action.

A repeating Expand Economy action would probably be a good idea, too.
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The question is, are we able to finish government upgrade/reform before our forest run out, and if we will have a war on our hand. War typically eats 2 main and some provincial secondary.
 
notgreat said:
That's what I'd hope, but I'm somewhat worried since we don't have enough Martial to support that many war missions safely, and I don't know what they'll do then.
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Martial 11, LC 4, a lot of dudes from Companies and Swords and Ploughshares.
I think we'll be fine.

Candesce said:
Roads cost wealth.

As such, they're not in competition with Forests, but with Kilns.

You want roads, plant forests.
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On one hand, I approve. On the other hand, Manus will be needed if Roads are not a repeated action. :V

Glassware said:
Traders aren't strong enough to hijack without seriously harming themselves, and with the destruction of the Trelli Naval is no longer as urgent since Freehills plays nice with us. I think they'll let it fail.
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I won't mind letting it fail.
 
Why are people thinking about going to war ourselves instead of sending the MCs? :confused:

Not only are the MCs the bulk of our military, but that is explicitly what they are there for - doing war actions in foreign territory without needing our personal intervention.
And we get paid for it too.
 
Unless that religious settlement does an expansion of the Prophet's Home, we're not going to see more than one market activate for us. They might as well finish the annex for us.

So passive policies prioritize the quests for us:

6 goes to temple. 2 goes to annex. 3 goes to markets.

OTOH, if they finish a second level temple for us...

2 goes to annex. 9 goes to 3 markets.
 
Candesce said:
Manus will be needed, then, 'cause I'm not seeing that happening.
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Ehhh.
Depends on the exact shape of reform.
I can see us running Repeated Faction Action Yeomen Expand Forests for several turns of double mains until they are at, like, 6 influence or so.
Or same with roads or Expand Econ - Yeomen-tagged actions are one of the most bloody useful we are going to have, come to think of it.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Why are people thinking about going to war ourselves instead of sending the MCs? :confused:

Not only are the MCs the bulk of our military, but that is explicitly what they are there for - doing war actions in foreign territory without needing our personal intervention.
And we get paid for it too.
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I wouldn't mind giving them for free to them tbh; "If an ally in Games is attacked, we give them access to our mercenaries without being paid" seems like a reasonable enough approach.

(Yes I am angling to peacefully confederate them for that tasty Indian Ocean access down the line)
 
PrimalShadow said:
Why are people thinking about going to war ourselves instead of sending the MCs? :confused:

Not only are the MCs the bulk of our military, but that is explicitly what they are there for - doing war actions in foreign territory without needing our personal intervention.
And we get paid for it too.
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Well, if we hire more than a single company out to the Harmurri, we leave ourselves open to attack. If we only hire a single company out, there still is a fair chance the Harmurri will buckle if they get unlucky.

Not to mention attacking will do a lot more for our diplomatic relations with the Harmurri than just sending a MC. I mean, think of how it would look to the Har if we only sell them some mercenaries instead of back them directly.
 
I wonder if we could get traveling toupee with Build Theaters and Build Roads actions....

PrimalShadow said:
Why are people thinking about going to war ourselves instead of sending the MCs? :confused:

Not only are the MCs the bulk of our military, but that is explicitly what they are there for - doing war actions in foreign territory without needing our personal intervention.
And we get paid for it too.
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We get to carve HK lowland holding and basically neuter them for generations, and maybe get a settlement in the pass in the process, preventing them from cutting off Gulvalley.
 
notgreat said:
IIRC 2 primary Martial (secondary sources don't count)
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In such a case they probably will take one or two wealth increasing actions that will continue to make the overflow stronger.

The alternative would be to stay on balanced and only dedicate a main war mission. I'd much prefer to just hit hard and fast before the HK get used to light cavalry and crush their army than stay on balanced though.
 
bluefur87 said:
Main: Dam (-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, -1 Tech)
Secondary: Annex (-2 Econ, -2 Culture)
Secondary: Games Invite (-1 Diplo)
Secondary: Offensive Policy
Secondary: War Mission (to direct the offensive policy)
Secondary: Expand Econ (+6 Econ, -2 Tech)
Secondary: Expand Econ (+6 Econ, -2 Tech)
Guild: Build Docks (-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, +3 Diplo)
Guild: Build Docks (-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, +3 Diplo)
Guild Secondary: Ceramics (-2 Econ, -3 Tech, +2 Wealth, +3 Culture, 1 Forrest)
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Better, but a few things:
  • -2 Diplo from Skullduggery
  • Fails Trader quest
  • Takes no stability increasing actions
  • Would still just be improved by switching the ceramics with textiles since it means more martial
  • Would still just be further improved by switching a docks with textiles, which could free up an expand economy for something important
More of a general question for people, but why is there even a need to use the main turn to declare war ourselves? Having the HK attack the lowlands, where we can better utilize our Cavalry and they have no defensive bonus, is pretty much the best situation we could ask for. This would save the actions for a react vote, give us unquestionable moral high ground and maybe even draw in the Freehills if we use the intervention CB and can get them to help out their follow games partner.

I'm just not seeing a reason to jump the gun here.
 
8bitBob said:
Better, but a few things:
  • -2 Diplo from Skullduggery
  • Fails Trader quest
  • Takes no stability increasing actions
  • Would still just be improved by switching the ceramics with textiles since it means more martial
  • Would still just be further improved by switching a docks with textiles, which could free up an expand economy for something important
More of a general question for people, but why is there even a need to use the main turn to declare war ourselves? Having the HK attack the lowlands, where we can better utilize our Cavalry and they have no defensive bonus, is pretty much the best situation we could ask for. This would save the actions for a react vote, give us unquestionable moral high ground and maybe even draw in the Freehills if we use the intervention CB and can get them to help out their follow games partner.

I'm just not seeing a reason to jump the gun here.
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If we wait, we abandon the Harmurri.
 
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