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Paths of Civilization

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Somebodynobody10 said:
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)

At the end of the day, we must be realists.

There is no path I see where we could ever tank the Wealth-costs if we got rid of the half-exiles and at the end of the day, the loss of prohibition of slavery is just a chance, not a guarantee
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>>>"We must be realists"
>>>Votes for the dickwaving boondoggle.
 
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)

My dick is hard lets get to waving.
 
DakkaMania said:
So, two questions:

The river we are damming up, is it one the HK are dependant on?

If yes, does the construction process cause issues for their agriculture?

If no, would biggest Dam cause issues?

Just want to make sure we screw them over properly. :V
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Yeah, its the western river that runs from north of Valleyhome south through Valleyguard and the cataracts.
 
pbluekan said:
Yeah, its the western river that runs from north of Valleyhome south through Valleyguard and the cataracts.
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Theoretically it would seriously hit them in the Economy department as all the amazing fertilizer that runs off from our farms would suddenly stop once we are finished building it. Would not last forever, but it is a way we could affect them.

Problem is that the increased costs means we cannot do that anytime soon.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Oooor we can have some patience and do it once we are more mechanized society without hamstringing our everything in process.
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If the choice was reform or status quo, many people would probably be onboard with that. But the choice is to reform or to damage some of the strongest pillars on which our society rests.

We got into this mess by valuing expedience over treating people the way they deserve to be treated. I honestly don't believe that choosing the expedient option here won't have us face something even worse down the line.
Adhoc vote count started by SeptimusMagisto on Nov 14, 2017 at 1:06 AM, finished with 128650 posts and 102 votes.
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Andres110 said:
The biggest dam option is stated by AN to mostly be about dick waving.
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No. That isn't what he said.
Academia Nut said:
The biggest is kind of a dick waving symbol, but it is theoretically stronger and can handle a larger amount of water than the second biggest.
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Yes, it's a dickwaving symbol. Its a giant behemoth of a construction. That doesn't make the extra size useless. Specifically, larger and more water is the important thing here. More water volume means several things, most importantly, increased shoreline. This means more space for people to live around the lake and get the benefits of it, from more chinampas to more mills. It also means increased drought resistance. The bigger the dam, the better, frankly.
 
Somebodynobody10 said:
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)

At the end of the day, we must be realists.

There is no path I see where we could ever tank the Wealth-costs if we got rid of the half-exiles and at the end of the day, the loss of prohibition of slavery is just a chance, not a guarantee

EDIT: Hmm... actually, how costly will it be if wealth-costs are doubled?
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Light Cavalry or Warships will cost 10 wealth per action. Almost half of our cap. So we, to face the truth, will not have cavalry or navy increase for the foreseeable future. Near steppes. Yes, this is as bad as it sounds.

Main Mills will cost 8 Wealth. Which means 99.9% of siuations we won't be buolding them.

Roads will cost 4 Wealth, which...is affordable, but expensive.

Each Merc company will cost 2 Wealth, which means that current ones will cst 6 wealth/tuen if we remove them from main budget, and that adding more will have to wait for a dozen or two dozens of turns, if not more.


So: it cripples our military, full stop.
It makes it very unlikely we build actual solutions to the slvery - Academies, Mills, oyher things which make skilled workers better than unskilled ones.
It means we must forget abouy Diplomacy or City Support and go full Infrastructure in Passives to have a prayer of a chance of surviving via Markets - and they are very likely to instead build Block Housing 2 Ironworks 3 instead, and otherwise sabotage our razor-thin Forests margin.

Oh, about forests: Main Kilns will cost 6 Welath. We won't be taking them.
 
pbluekan said:
No. That isn't what he said.

Yes, it's a dickwaving symbol. Its a giant behemoth of a construction. That doesn't make the extra size useless. Specifically, larger and more water is the important thing here. More water volume means several things, most importantly, increased shoreline. This means more space for people to live around the lake and get the benefits of it, from more chinampas to more mills. It also means increased drought resistance. The bigger the dam, the better, frankly.
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Theoretically. It could fail and fuck us and the lowland beneath.

Well, technically, any of our dam we build could fail. Just this one is most likely to fail.
 
God, that wealth cost. Some part of me wants the first edition vote, where we couldn't risk so much for morality. Well, if it works out, then it's super great and we made a big jump, but I don't think I'll vote for it. Let's hope markets save us, I guess?
[X] [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
Skullduggery is more needed than CS, I think. We are about to piss off three powerful factions, after all.
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
 
pbluekan said:
No. That isn't what he said.

Yes, it's a dickwaving symbol. Its a giant behemoth of a construction. That doesn't make the extra size useless. Specifically, larger and more water is the important thing here. More water volume means several things, most importantly, increased shoreline. This means more space for people to live around the lake and get the benefits of it, from more chinampas to more mills. It also means increased drought resistance. The bigger the dam, the better, frankly.
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I said mostly about, not entirely about. He said "The biggest [reason] is kind of a dick waving symbol". While getting the biggest dam does give good things outside of dick waving, the dick waving is the primary purpose of it.
 
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[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)

@Academia Nut would building the most expensive Dam option allow us to build structures we lost when the Mountain mega-project went bye-bye?
 
SeptimusMagisto said:
If the choice was reform or status quo, many people would probably be onboard with that. But the choice is to reform or to damage some of the strongest pillars on which our society rests.

We got into this mess by valuing expedience over treating people the way they deserve to be treated. I honestly don't believe that choosing the expedient option here won't have us face something even worse down the line.
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Why is damaging Purity a problem?
Why do you consider its xenophobia, which explicitly contradicts Acceptance (actual pillar of society), a pillar?
 
ctulhuslp said:
Why is damaging Purity a problem?
Why do you consider its xenophobia, which explicitly contradicts Acceptance (actual pillar of society), a pillar?
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I believe that he is talking about the tradition of Anti Slavery in the Ymaryn, which breaking the Puritans has a chance of also breaking.
No one is really crying over poor Purity, people don't want to risk the Ymaryn adopting slavery.
 
Ghostdevil said:
Well neither he nor I are voting for going Morality boner here, so that's more your problem than mine
with my vote going full dam is possible
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Okay, but the current winning Purity option is winning by a 46-vote margin, so it's still irresponsible to vote for something which we'd only be able to afford if we weren't doing the thing we're obviously going to do. The fact that you would rather we didn't is, ultimately, entirely immaterial.
ctulhuslp said:
Why is damaging Purity a problem?
Why do you consider its xenophobia, which explicitly contradicts Acceptance (actual pillar of society), a pillar?
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Damaging Purity isn't a problem, damaging the prohibition against slavery is. And yes, that's only a risk, but I don't see why it's a more acceptable one than the risk we take by reforming the system and trying to remain stable. We have no official odds on the former and insufficient information about future turns to calculate the chances on the latter, so the risk evaluation is entirely subjective.
 
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