The Labor Requirement would be fine if we swapped the Influence or Great Hall action for a Trade Mission.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
OK. A double main snail cultivation and a secondary action gives us 7 wealth. Our current wealth is 4[+1]. So we will be at 12 wealth, assuming we did not spend any wealth whatsoever.
I am considering narrative impact on labor relation. Growing cottons necessarily requires a lot of unskilled labor.
Amber Road is still out of contact- we should send over an {S} Support to make sure they're OK, and to rescue the survivors if not.
Why would we {G-M} Cotton? {G-M} Poppies is basically the same thing but for 1 less econ.
What's the need for the 2x Expand Econ? We don't want our econ to be overflowing right now since our LTE would be killer. One is probably a good idea to make sure we have space next turn, but two means adding +24 econ this turn (2 from us, 2 from Balanced. 6 econ per secondary)
Why would we {G-M} Cotton? {G-M} Poppies is basically the same thing but for 1 less econ.
What's the need for the 2x Expand Econ? We don't want our econ to be overflowing right now since our LTE would be killer. One is probably a good idea to make sure we have space next turn, but two means adding +24 econ this turn (2 from us, 2 from Balanced. 6 econ per secondary)
Staying at 3+ gives us some significant Wealth income. The easiest way to stay at 3+ is to get to 4 so that we can still take random hits.
I see.
In that case, I believe that your original claim is unsupported, and we have seen ZERO evidence that it "boosts loyalty for a much shorter term than influence".
[X][Main]Great Dam
[X][Secondary]Build Roads
[X][Secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall Expansion
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Greenshore
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver
[X][Guild][Main] Plant Poppies
[X][Guild][Main] Build Docks
[X][Guild][Secondary] Plant Cotton
[X][Secondary]Build Roads
[X][Secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall Expansion
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Greenshore
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver
[X][Guild][Main] Plant Poppies
[X][Guild][Main] Build Docks
[X][Guild][Secondary] Plant Cotton
[X][Main] Dam
[X][Main] Dam
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Greenshore
[X][Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall Expansion
[X][Secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Secondary] Survey
[X][Secondary] Expand Econ
[X][Guild] Plant Poppies
[X][Guild] Build Docks
[X][Guild Sec] Plant Cotton
I am going to shamelessly parade my plan again - it deals with 3 main things we want (annex, Dam, Influence), starts connecting us to our western colonies, doesn't starve us and leaves us at more than 10 wealth. What's not to like? Oh, and yeah, it also has Survey, but I can change it to pretty much anything else that doesn't spend econ or wealth, like Troublemakers or another Expand Econ.
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Greenshore
[X][Secondary] Palace Annex - Great Hall Expansion
[X][Secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Secondary] Survey
[X][Secondary] Expand Econ
[X][Guild] Plant Poppies
[X][Guild] Build Docks
[X][Guild Sec] Plant Cotton
I am going to shamelessly parade my plan again - it deals with 3 main things we want (annex, Dam, Influence), starts connecting us to our western colonies, doesn't starve us and leaves us at more than 10 wealth. What's not to like? Oh, and yeah, it also has Survey, but I can change it to pretty much anything else that doesn't spend econ or wealth, like Troublemakers or another Expand Econ.
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- Location
- Hell
Well since it was a recommendation of the plan I forth, you must have noticed that I have a Influence Subordinate spending said Wealth.
So it would drop us a point in Stability.
Still, a bit excessive at this juncture when we have many projects to deal with.
Narratively, Expand Economy frees up lots of unskilled labor. What is the problem?
Anyone know why our Econ income is [+4-1]? Where did the -1 come from?
Narrative makes sense, and it was our reaction vote when dealing with loyalty problems. It's not decisive evidence, but we have some.
Sure, whatever.
- Location
- Hell
Or
He is just tired and does not have the time to search.
Just because he cannot provide the evidence this second does not mean it does not exist.
- Location
- Australia
Come on people have you even looked at it
Distribute Land - By reworking the distribution of land, the king can improve tax income and reduce pressures administrative overhead. 0/4 Progress to Min Centralization increase
*S: -1 Centralization, +2 Wealth
*M: -2 Centralization, +5 Wealth, +1 Progress
By my reading of it we could take this 3 times as a main in the next three turns and not suffer from the bow back and I'm only saying we should use it once.also it would actually solve 3 problems this turn if we took it just once as a main.
1 over centralisation from our cities coming back online
2 if we want to go for the 20 wealth without absolutely murdering our LTE this is basically the only way to do it.
3 and we know the Patricians are going to use this when they get their own actions with the new system some warning on what exactly this action does would be useful as we have literally never used it.
Distribute Land - By reworking the distribution of land, the king can improve tax income and reduce pressures administrative overhead. 0/4 Progress to Min Centralization increase
*S: -1 Centralization, +2 Wealth
*M: -2 Centralization, +5 Wealth, +1 Progress
By my reading of it we could take this 3 times as a main in the next three turns and not suffer from the bow back and I'm only saying we should use it once.also it would actually solve 3 problems this turn if we took it just once as a main.
1 over centralisation from our cities coming back online
2 if we want to go for the 20 wealth without absolutely murdering our LTE this is basically the only way to do it.
3 and we know the Patricians are going to use this when they get their own actions with the new system some warning on what exactly this action does would be useful as we have literally never used it.
- Location
- Staring into the void
Inserted tally
Looking at current standing quests:
-Patricians (6 {12}) - Power: Add or subtract their faction power from factions they are supporting/opposing. Objective: Build 0/4 Great Hall Annexes within 3 turns Reward: Government upgrade
Cost: [Secondary] Great Hall(Econ 2, Culture 2)x4
Guild (5) - Power: Half faction power added to Max Wealth. Objective: Have a level 3 Ironworks within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Stability
Cost: [Secondary] Block Housing(Econ 3, Tech 3) x2, [Secondary] Ironworks(Econ 3, Tech 3, Forest 1) x2
Ow, because we'd need to shove in another bath and aqueduct right after. Just fail it personally.
Traders (2) - Power: Add or subtract faction power modifier to all innovation rolls. Objective: Have Naval power 3 or above within 2 turns. Success: +1 Naval [1/2]
Cost: [Main] Econ 3, Wealth 5, Martial 3
It has also been highlighted as very important soon, due to Freehills and Western Ymaryn contesting the Black Sea.
Yeomen (2)- Power: Adds faction power to secondary Martial Objective: Have 30 EE within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Stability [1/2]
They can probably go sod off once we get enough Stabbility to ignore it.
Priests (2)- Power: Adds faction power to RA. Objective: Have a new level 2 temple somewhere within 2 turns. Success: +1 RA tolerance. Failure: -1 Stability
Cost: Temple(Econ 3, Culture 3) x2
Urban Poor (4) - Power: +1 Max Legitimacy every 3 full power. Objective: Have a Level 2 market and a Level 1 market in another city within 2 turns. Success: Grand Bazaar Megaproject completion, no faction power increase
Cost: Market(Wealth 3, Culture 3) x2
We currently have 1 Infrastructure policy running. It won't help anything on its own. We literally cannot afford to build everything manually. Infrastructure policy then must return.
We have enough of a forestry buffer that we can commit to turning the next 2 passive policies to Forestry once the cities come back.
[X][Main] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Great Dam x2
[X][Secondary] Great Dam x3
[X][Secondary] Great Dam x4
[X][Secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Guild Main] Plant Poppies
[X][Guild Main] Build Docks
[X][Guild Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
Okay lets see the costs on this:
-Dam - 2 Econ
-Dam(fused secondaries) - 2 Econ
-Dam(fused secondaries) x2 - 2 Econ
-Policy change - Free
-Poppies - 3 Econ, 3 EE.
-Docks - 2 Econ 1 Wealth
-Snails - 1 Econ
And the incomes:
-Poppies - 1 Mysticism, 7 Wealth
-Snails - 1 Wealth 1 Culture
-Docks - 3 Diplomacy
Available spent stats(costs included, income not included):
-Econ 13, Culture 12, Wealth 4, Tech 24
Total costs(income not included):
-Econ 12, Wealth 2, Tech 1
Lowest point possible:
-Econ 1(provinces will not spend Econ), Culture 10, Wealth 2, Tech 23
Total action profit(incoming income not included):
-Mysticism 1, Wealth 8, Culture 1
End Wealth: 11
That gives us SOME wealth next turn once the passive cashes in, which lets us rush the Warships. We can hope the passives prioritize the Market to generate Wealth and getting the Bazaar.
This is tentative, pending all sums being correct!
The key here is something PrimalShadow had been harping on for a long time now: Passives are really freaking good at making extended projects.
Also the only way we're going to be breaking even on Econ here is if we fused secondaries for the Dam. Annexes and all that costs too much.
Goddamned needle threading, I got nearly nothing I wanted out of this plan x.x
Theres also basically no way to Influence or Support subordinates without crashing SOMETHING. Urgh.
No roads even, FFS.
Anyway, work calls. Get back to this if theres more info.
-Patricians (6 {12}) - Power: Add or subtract their faction power from factions they are supporting/opposing. Objective: Build 0/4 Great Hall Annexes within 3 turns Reward: Government upgrade
Cost: [Secondary] Great Hall(Econ 2, Culture 2)x4
Guild (5) - Power: Half faction power added to Max Wealth. Objective: Have a level 3 Ironworks within 3 turns. Failure:
Cost: [Secondary] Block Housing(Econ 3, Tech 3) x2, [Secondary] Ironworks(Econ 3, Tech 3, Forest 1) x2
Ow, because we'd need to shove in another bath and aqueduct right after. Just fail it personally.
Traders (2) - Power: Add or subtract faction power modifier to all innovation rolls. Objective: Have Naval power 3 or above within 2 turns. Success: +1 Naval [1/2]
Cost: [Main] Econ 3, Wealth 5, Martial 3
It has also been highlighted as very important soon, due to Freehills and Western Ymaryn contesting the Black Sea.
Yeomen (2)- Power: Adds faction power to secondary Martial Objective: Have 30 EE within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Stability [1/2]
They can probably go sod off once we get enough Stabbility to ignore it.
Priests (2)- Power: Adds faction power to RA. Objective: Have a new level 2 temple somewhere within 2 turns. Success: +1 RA tolerance. Failure:
Cost: Temple(Econ 3, Culture 3) x2
Urban Poor (4) - Power: +1 Max Legitimacy every 3 full power. Objective: Have a Level 2 market and a Level 1 market in another city within 2 turns. Success: Grand Bazaar Megaproject completion, no faction power increase
Cost: Market(Wealth 3, Culture 3) x2
We currently have 1 Infrastructure policy running. It won't help anything on its own. We literally cannot afford to build everything manually. Infrastructure policy then must return.
We have enough of a forestry buffer that we can commit to turning the next 2 passive policies to Forestry once the cities come back.
[X][Main] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Great Dam
[X][Secondary] Great Dam x2
[X][Secondary] Great Dam x3
[X][Secondary] Great Dam x4
[X][Secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Guild Main] Plant Poppies
[X][Guild Main] Build Docks
[X][Guild Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
Okay lets see the costs on this:
-Dam - 2 Econ
-Dam(fused secondaries) - 2 Econ
-Dam(fused secondaries) x2 - 2 Econ
-Policy change - Free
-Poppies - 3 Econ, 3 EE.
-Docks - 2 Econ 1 Wealth
-Snails - 1 Econ
And the incomes:
-Poppies - 1 Mysticism, 7 Wealth
-Snails - 1 Wealth 1 Culture
-Docks - 3 Diplomacy
Available spent stats(costs included, income not included):
-Econ 13, Culture 12, Wealth 4, Tech 24
Total costs(income not included):
-Econ 12, Wealth 2, Tech 1
Lowest point possible:
-Econ 1(provinces will not spend Econ), Culture 10, Wealth 2, Tech 23
Total action profit(incoming income not included):
-Mysticism 1, Wealth 8, Culture 1
End Wealth: 11
That gives us SOME wealth next turn once the passive cashes in, which lets us rush the Warships. We can hope the passives prioritize the Market to generate Wealth and getting the Bazaar.
This is tentative, pending all sums being correct!
The key here is something PrimalShadow had been harping on for a long time now: Passives are really freaking good at making extended projects.
Also the only way we're going to be breaking even on Econ here is if we fused secondaries for the Dam. Annexes and all that costs too much.
Goddamned needle threading, I got nearly nothing I wanted out of this plan x.x
Theres also basically no way to Influence or Support subordinates without crashing SOMETHING. Urgh.
No roads even, FFS.
Anyway, work calls. Get back to this if theres more info.
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- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
[X][Main] Dam
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver Colony
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver Colony x2
[X][Secondary] Expand Econ
[X][Secondary] Expand Econ x2
[X][Secondary] Survey Lands
[X][Guild] Plant Poppy
[X][Guild] Snail Cultivation
[X][Guild Secondary] Snail Cultivation
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver Colony
[X][Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver Colony x2
[X][Secondary] Expand Econ
[X][Secondary] Expand Econ x2
[X][Secondary] Survey Lands
[X][Guild] Plant Poppy
[X][Guild] Snail Cultivation
[X][Guild Secondary] Snail Cultivation
[X][Main] Dam
[X][secondary] Grand Hall Annex
[X][secondary] Expand Econ
[X][secondary] Expand Econ x2
[X][secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver
[X][secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Guild] Plant Cotton
[X][Guild] Build Glasswork
[X][Guild Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 2 + 1
4 + 6 + 3
10 + 3
13
[X][secondary] Grand Hall Annex
[X][secondary] Expand Econ
[X][secondary] Expand Econ x2
[X][secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver
[X][secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Guild] Plant Cotton
[X][Guild] Build Glasswork
[X][Guild Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 2 + 1
4 + 6 + 3
10 + 3
13
You misunderstand. I was pretty certain the claim was unsupported when I first saw it, but for the sake of courtesy I gave @bluefur87 a chance to site his sources; what with him sounding so authoritative in his statement.
So you see, I don't believe it is an unsupported claim because @bluefur87 failed to point to any sources. I believe it is an unsupported claim because I've been attentively following story and WoG posts and have not seen anything supporting said claim, and @bluefur87's lack of sources has failed to disabuse me of said notion.
The Narrative for any number of options makes sense. I didn't say the claim was infeasible; I said it was unsupported.
The fact that it was our reaction vote suggests that it is better for this situation, somehow, though it DOESN'T particularly imply that said superiority is due to it having a longer-lasting effect on loyalty. Still, I think there is enough of a connection there for you to claim it as evidence of some sort, even if it is extraordinarily weak.
So, I will amend my statement. I no longer believe the the original claim is entirely unsupported. Now I merely believe that it is supported only by the flimsiest of evidence.
We are at 14/27 Econ, and I expect us to spend Econ down to 0-1; and if we don't, I expect our colonies to spend it with their actions. At 1 econ, we can take 2x Expand Econ (+24 Econ) to go to 25, and then get our turn income of 3 to go up to 28; that overflows by 1 into wealth without burning LTE.
Hey now, my plan doesn't crash anything. It even has docks, which are like sea roads.
I'd say that any plan that doesn't influence at least one, preferably two subordinates should be dismissed. We know that they're torn between us and the Storm Wolves-Western Ymaryn hybrid culture, and if they defect we're utterly screwed, as they have all our technology and are willing to fuel it with slave labour already, as well as whatever else of the local optimal solutions we've been avoiding.
Combined with Freehills taking the Straits, we could easily produce a lethal international environment within a couple of turns.
A slave using Ymaryn successor that's prepared to over harvest the forest would kick the living shit out of us. If they kick off a reunification war, or war to retake the Ymaryn holy sites, they'd probably win.
Influencing them to stay loyal should be the highest priority. Higher than the dam or the government form change.
Combined with Freehills taking the Straits, we could easily produce a lethal international environment within a couple of turns.
A slave using Ymaryn successor that's prepared to over harvest the forest would kick the living shit out of us. If they kick off a reunification war, or war to retake the Ymaryn holy sites, they'd probably win.
Influencing them to stay loyal should be the highest priority. Higher than the dam or the government form change.
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
@veekie
You forgot the 5th secondary Action
Also what so you Think of my vote
Oh builds up some interconnectivity, Starts Everything we want als crashes nothing
You forgot the 5th secondary Action
Also what so you Think of my vote
Oh builds up some interconnectivity, Starts Everything we want als crashes nothing
There are a number of variation on influencing Tinriver Colony. We need to standardize.
[X][Main] Dam
[X][secondary] Expand Econ
[X][secondary] Expand Econ x2
[X][secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver
[X][secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver x2
[X][secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Guild] Plant Cotton
[X][Guild] Build Glasswork
[X][Guild Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
[X][Main] Dam
[X][secondary] Expand Econ
[X][secondary] Expand Econ x2
[X][secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver
[X][secondary] Influence Subordinate - Tinriver x2
[X][secondary] Change Policy - Passive (Forestry + Forestry -> Infrastructure + Infrastructure)
[X][Guild] Plant Cotton
[X][Guild] Build Glasswork
[X][Guild Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation