- Location
- Australia
The Thunder Horse and the Thunder Speakers are both our vassals.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
I was referring to the descendant civilizations of the original Thunder Horse.
- Location
- Brazil
[X] [React] The economy, fools! (Sec Expand Econ, cannot be taken with Mass Levy active)
[X] [War] Scramble what warriors are available (Sends a Sec War Mission and Mercenary Companies to the east)
Just have to stall them for a bit before the plague does the job for us.
[X] [War] Scramble what warriors are available (Sends a Sec War Mission and Mercenary Companies to the east)
Just have to stall them for a bit before the plague does the job for us.
They don't have the plague... yet.
Let's change that.
[X] [War] Scramble everyone (Sends warriors east, Switches to Mass Levy policy and removes Isolated Economy status)
[X] [React] We need more fast scouts to counter the nomads! (Sec More Spiritbonded)
Fuck the nomads.
We won't abandon our people.
And let even our very blood, carrying the disease, be a weapon to strike on them, so the next generations know that to challenge Ymaryn is to dance with horrible death.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, not much I can say to argue with that. You seem to have accepted that your primary motivation is frustration with the nomads, which I can't exactly argue against given that they are a massive nuisance, so fair enough. I think prioritizing that over keeping us safe from the plague is unwise, but that's just a question of priors.
This, on the other hand, I can argue against - if we fort up in Xohyr, there's nothing to stop the nomads from just going around us and heading for the core, or even leaving a force behind to besiege while sending off another to advance. You can send our troops to the lowlands if you want, but don't think it's going to go smoothly once they're there. They'll need to fight in the open fields, where we have a massive disadvantage, if they want to slow the nomad advance.
I just don't think that's accurate. Even if the horde itself grows as it sweeps through the lowlands, its effective strength will be cut massively by fighting on unfavorable terrain once it reaches the hills and forests. So as long as we don't waste all our armies fighting in the lowlands, where we're at a terrain disadvantage, we should be able to hold the core.
FUCKING NOMADS!!![X] [War] Scramble everyone (Sends warriors east, Switches to Mass Levy policy and removes Isolated Economy status)
[X] [React] We need more fast scouts to counter the nomads! (Sec More Spiritbonded)
That was very inspiring, and captured the Ymaryn quite well, I think.
I can only speak for myself but I'm finding this a ton of fun
Bit surprised at the defeatism but it's kind of understandable I guess. I just completely disagree with it. Even with how things are now, we're getting off lightly to how some countries have suffered in real life.It's just not in the Ymaryn character to back down without a fight. When smallpox and cholera struck we beat the shit out of it. We shrug off climate disruption like it's nothing while other civilizations starve and collapse. We just tanked a massive civ collapsing punch by Super TB while everyone around us collapse or die. The Ymaryn take pride in how accepting they are in the Iron Age. Abandoning our vassals to the nomads without even trying to defend them is not Ymaryn at all. I mean, we have a trait that describes how much we hate nomads. We cleared the steppes for well over a generation of nomads when they attacked us. That was with two Heroic Martial heroes in the horde and none on our side.
This current choice is risky, but a lot of choices have been over the course of the quest. If the Ymaryn have to fracture then I'd rather it be fighting against the hated nomads, defending the people we are sworn to protect while suffering with plague, than hiding in our hills.
In conclusion, Nomads Delende Est!
So, since the debate has moved into the circular phase and repeating points does nobody any favors, a brief analysis of the non-votey bits.
-Common/Fine Pottery are probably no longer Competing with Mountain Horse(what with them being overrun), but it doesn't update yet.
-Subordinate loyalty has yet to update. However, fighting the Khan should boost the Loyalty of Western Wall and Greenshore(which may break away if we lose anymore Loyalty), and abandoning Txolla may do the reverse.
Fortunately Pride in Acceptance is a higher ranked value and probably would push back against Purity(their evolved forms likely can't coexist easily).
I think probably the best outcome we could hope for this is fusion into something else. At our level of technology it cannot be disproven(quite the opposite even, a lot of evidence will validate it)
So a few possible ideas for fusions:
-Personal Stewards of Nature -> Transfer the stringent enforcement focus to environmentalism which would basically splice on a bonus to dealing with environmental or health crisis due to being meticulous about preventing pollution.
-Greater Justice -> Transfer the stringent enforcement focus to Justice. Makes it somewhat more inhumane, but more effective?
-Division of Power -> Thats how you wind up with a caste system.
-Joyous Symphony -> Transfer the stringent enforcement to social harmony. Social order actions more effective, negative stability more punishing.
-Honorable Death -> Idealistic Zeal. Combine the two more evenly(as appropriate for two level 1 traits). Death in the pursuit of ideals. Warning: May have some nasty similarities to Sacred War because people would rather die than not go through with their beliefs.
-Life of Arete -> Some kind of redefinition of excellence? Not sure we want to see it.
Nothing new on techs, the Study Health result either hadn't come out yet or we didn't roll well enough to get something.
I wonder if we had protected the monotheists they'd have wound up focusing on the charcoalers, traders or migrants in general.
So we have TWO reservoirs: Buildings where infected people have been, and whatever animal is the vector.
Which in turn means it's an animal that is at least kept indoors part of the time OR a herd animal that regularly stays in close contact.
So we still don't know which animal. It's still cats, dogs, horses and cows.
It quenches the immune response that normally triggers fevers, so we got the immune system targeting syndrome correct.
It's not a cytokine storm however, those would trigger extensive fevers and headaches.
So it seems it mainly kills with secondary infections once suppressed. You could probably save most of the infected with a clean room and saline solution.
Also sounds like we're pasturizing parchments. Would speed their breakdown, though I believe the use of nonporous leather gloves are more useful for not being infected than the burning.
-Guild (5) - Power: Half faction power added to Max Wealth. Objective: Have a level 3 Ironworks within 4 turns. Failure: -1 Stability
So...about the fuel demand. The Guilds think our cities are too small and we should build another Block Housing to support another Ironworks.
-Traders (2) - Objective: Have Naval power 3 or above within 3 turns. Success: +1 Naval [1/2]
The Traders...well this would be nice. But expensive. Get in line.
-Priests (2)- Power: Adds faction power to RA. Objective: Have a new level 2 temple somewhere within 3 turns. Success: +1 RA tolerance. Failure: -1 Stability
Priest faction power is very inconvenient, but it does give us more temp econ damage resistance.
This quest is quite desirable however. We want the tolerance.
-Common/Fine Pottery are probably no longer Competing with Mountain Horse(what with them being overrun), but it doesn't update yet.
-Subordinate loyalty has yet to update. However, fighting the Khan should boost the Loyalty of Western Wall and Greenshore(which may break away if we lose anymore Loyalty), and abandoning Txolla may do the reverse.
A troubling social value, and one which has potentially problematic evolutions, since this is basically the root value for Racism and Caste values. It has great value in protecting us from disease.
Fortunately Pride in Acceptance is a higher ranked value and probably would push back against Purity(their evolved forms likely can't coexist easily).
I think probably the best outcome we could hope for this is fusion into something else. At our level of technology it cannot be disproven(quite the opposite even, a lot of evidence will validate it)
So a few possible ideas for fusions:
-Personal Stewards of Nature -> Transfer the stringent enforcement focus to environmentalism which would basically splice on a bonus to dealing with environmental or health crisis due to being meticulous about preventing pollution.
-Greater Justice -> Transfer the stringent enforcement focus to Justice. Makes it somewhat more inhumane, but more effective?
-Division of Power -> Thats how you wind up with a caste system.
-Joyous Symphony -> Transfer the stringent enforcement to social harmony. Social order actions more effective, negative stability more punishing.
-Honorable Death -> Idealistic Zeal. Combine the two more evenly(as appropriate for two level 1 traits). Death in the pursuit of ideals. Warning: May have some nasty similarities to Sacred War because people would rather die than not go through with their beliefs.
-Life of Arete -> Some kind of redefinition of excellence? Not sure we want to see it.
Nothing new on techs, the Study Health result either hadn't come out yet or we didn't roll well enough to get something.
Priest-clerk is an odd roll. Sounds like basically a mayor?
Former King: "Yo, this is your shitstorm now. I'm out."
Ah typical.
I wonder if we had protected the monotheists they'd have wound up focusing on the charcoalers, traders or migrants in general.
Also sounds like about the expected, but people are people.
This part was predicted. Most aerosolized plague vectors don't transmit that good outside of buildings.
So we have TWO reservoirs: Buildings where infected people have been, and whatever animal is the vector.
Which in turn means it's an animal that is at least kept indoors part of the time OR a herd animal that regularly stays in close contact.
So we still don't know which animal. It's still cats, dogs, horses and cows.
It quenches the immune response that normally triggers fevers, so we got the immune system targeting syndrome correct.
It's not a cytokine storm however, those would trigger extensive fevers and headaches.
So it seems it mainly kills with secondary infections once suppressed. You could probably save most of the infected with a clean room and saline solution.
White leather equipment huh? Interesting.
Also sounds like we're pasturizing parchments. Would speed their breakdown, though I believe the use of nonporous leather gloves are more useful for not being infected than the burning.
-Guild (5) - Power: Half faction power added to Max Wealth. Objective: Have a level 3 Ironworks within 4 turns. Failure:
So...about the fuel demand. The Guilds think our cities are too small and we should build another Block Housing to support another Ironworks.
-Traders (2) - Objective: Have Naval power 3 or above within 3 turns. Success: +1 Naval [1/2]
The Traders...well this would be nice. But expensive. Get in line.
-Priests (2)- Power: Adds faction power to RA. Objective: Have a new level 2 temple somewhere within 3 turns. Success: +1 RA tolerance. Failure:
Priest faction power is very inconvenient, but it does give us more temp econ damage resistance.
This quest is quite desirable however. We want the tolerance.
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
1. Yes, but it's probably going to punch a hole in our Stability for fairly obvious reasons, and
2. the malus reduction that Cavalry 2 versus Cavalry 1 would give us is marginal. We are losing 7 Wealth a turn, so splurging 5 Wealth on Spiritbonded is a waste of money on top of the opportunity cost.
But its not? We have the best King for disease rolls, the restored vassal taxes prevent running out of temp econ and Purity add more buffs to disease rolls.
Expense wise, yes its nasty, but Hero Admin auto succeeds order of operations to dig outta that and we've yet to cash in Gulvalley
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We shoukdn't forget about this. Our military is weak enough that a bad loss could result in adevastating loss of knowledge, collapsing both blackbirds and Spiritbonded.
Actually the plague is far less of a threat by itself than first thought.
It's lethality is only 10 to 20 percent, by word of AN, so the main threat are the secondary effects, stability, legitimacy, economy.
And the worst way to affect these factors now would be either to abandon our people, our traits would punish us hard for this, or to go to war and lose, since losing, especially on our own land, would also punish us hard.
Going all in with more pony is actually the most optimal way to deal with the situation.
So "fuck nomads" is, for once, the optimal way to go, not only most satisfying.
Dutch
Bored Spearman of the Wind
- Location
- CET
To be fair. What happens if we fail here is a bit different then what normally happens when a superplague or nomads hit someone, what with the decent chance we'll lose every bit of institutional and preserved knowledge we have along with all of our infrastructure.
The previous times when we were at risk of shattering we knew it was going to be messy, but a reunification would have been possible.
This time it's flat out:
[] Start from scratch
[] Play as Western Ymaryn
[] Play as Northern Trade Post
@Academia Nut Any chance the Mylathads have a Leo I in the wings?
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
but it should be considered that Pride in acceptance is very much an aberration while Purity play into deepset natural biases.
- Location
- Australia
We do not want to complete the quest. The increase in RA matches the increase in RA tolerance, so no real change there, but it gives the priests more political power, which increases the RA they have. We're already at partial red on that front.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Depends, the current faith blame game may be mitigated or agitated when we complete the quest. Failing the quest would reduce the priest faction while keeping RA high, likely triggering a real crisis forcing us to vent RA somehow. So i see it less harmful to succeed the quest than fail it.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is true if and only if we can expect to win a crushing victory in the lowlands. Considering that our Martial Advisor doesn't like our chances on open terrain, and that both said advisor and our king are not especially competent at leading armies, I'm less than optimistic.
Also: while 10-20% lethality rate is less than we feared, that still means losing 10-20% of our total population unless we keep this thing under control. Which absolutely qualifies as catastrophic, if not civilization-destroying on its own.
