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Paths of Civilization

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Raichu1972 said:
We also were super isolationist, and Iron was considered a Trade Secret that was never to be given to outsiders.
Now, at least us and the HK are trading iron, and the Metal Workers had it before they were taken over by nomads.

The Khemetri have iron, but according to the Trade Sheet they aren't trading any of it.

It's much easier to learn how to make iron once you have samples if it.
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The Khemetri are trading iron, the trade sheet has them crossed out from the trelli disaster stuff cutting us off from most of their trade...which i guess means that out of date?

Sivantic said:
Alternatively, they could have had their own crit-success. It is hardly likely that the Metal Workers and us are the only ones to discover how to use iron, especially since the were the original discovers of porcelain.
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BungieONI said:
Hmmmm... when did we start trading Iron?

*Goes to look*

Ah! We started in "Decision point". Going by the threadmark formula that's 315 years or so. If I was going to guess, what with our limited Easterly trade, I would say that it is not likely for Not!China to have gotten Iron from us at least directly. Now the issue is complicated by the Mountain Horse and Harmurri, who do trade with the East. Out that way they may have pushed Iron to the Not!Chinese. Kind of a toss up, leaning towards possibly not.


*tilts head* Are you saying the Metal Workers were the original inventors of porcelain? If so where did you get that idea?

The refractory ceramic kilns/vessels we stole from them at least a thousand years before we got porcelain were sufficient for Iron smelting, which is cooler than Kaolin into Porcelain by several hundred degrees. It took us several iterations on the design and our own kilns before we got porcelain.
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The Xoh may have invented porcelain before us:
Academia Nut said:
2. Harmurri and Mountain Horse inherited many techniques from the Xohyr, so some have been passed on
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That was in response to me asking about "Porcelain and hte like", so not sure if he means specifically porcelain, or "just" the general spread of "better pottery". Just from what people have said of the needs for porcelain (both in great heat and in how we figured it out via alchemy iirc), i'm inclined to think the latter, but we're not sure.
 
Kiba said:
Conquest of the Persian Gulf and the Indian Ocean is a bit of a tall order for the Harmurri. Maybe when our shipbuilding tech improves a bit.

Mostly, I am interested in facilitating trade between India and our region.
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Sivantic said:
And stop moving the goal posts we were talking about the Harmurri and whether they would sell iron or use it against their smaller neighbors.
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I was not saying suddenly eating everything, but using what they had to grow quickly.
ETA50M said:
That quote was in reference to the Khem, MH and Harmurri you began focusing on them when I already said the MH have used iron to conquer. The Harmurri will trade iron with civs at insane princes because they
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Yet my comment was specifically about the Harmurri, and we debated a bit before you tried to switch it back to MH.

Again, I find it more likely that they will conquer before they make sells, and even then only because they were stopped.
 
Sivantic said:
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I was not saying suddenly eating everything, but using what they had to grow quickly.


Yet my comment was specifically about the Harmurri, and we debated a bit before you tried to switch it back to MH.

Again, I find it more likely that they will conquer before they make sells, and even then only because they were stopped.
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You brought up the Mongols who did exactly that then disputed me for saying the Harmurri would sell to other civs on the Indian Ocean.
Kiba said:
I was wrong. MH acquired the iron expertise from nomads trading slaves.
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They also have the trading routes on lock and maybe that along with absorbing nomad hordes are the reason why they regained power so quickly. The Heaven's Hawk will continue to send trade missions into the wild so that's a titan on a collision course with us.
 
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ETA50M said:
You brought up the Mongols who did exactly that then disputed me for saying the Harmurri would sell to other civs on the Indian Ocean.
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The Mongols were a joke since I did not expect you to be serious about oversea targets being the only ones available to them.

I see I was wrong.
Kiba said:
There's probably isn't any real civ in the Indian ocean.
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ehh...

Considering how much Academia has changed the geography...maybe?
 
Sivantic said:
The Mongols were a joke since I did not expect you to be serious about oversea targets being the only ones available to them.

I see I was wrong.

ehh...

Considering how much Academia has changed the geography...maybe?
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Considering you said the Harmurri would refuse to sell any iron tools and focus on conquering civs when the MH did both, I probably wasn't sure if you were.
 
Kiba said:
If the Harmurri decided to try to conquer civs in or on the Indian Ocean, that's their business, but also stupid.
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Remember that we are really weird.

Even if they do conquer new lands, that probably would not last. Border Territory is usually very fluid and changes hands often, just look at the Lowland Minor.

Especially since most other places are used to just enslaving everyone else for their own benefit. That was just what people did.
 
The MH aren't going to let anyone use the land route to notIndia (that rich civ to the East is them for sure) and the Harmurri are feeling pressured to build ships to reach it so why not help them out (thus giving us a secure trade route). The astrology prediction could've been about them along with the HK.
 
ETA50M said:
The MH aren't going to let anyone use the land route to notIndia (that rich civ to the East is them for sure) and the Harmurri are feeling pressured to build ships to reach it so why not help them out (thus giving us a secure trade route). The astrology prediction could've been about them along with the HK.
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Nothing came up in the narrative, so we couldn't act on it. Even if we could, we probably don't have enough tech or wealth.

@Academia Nut What do we have to do to get rice while the Harmurri gets our shipbuilding techniques?
 
Kiba said:
Nothing came up in the narrative, so we couldn't act on it. Even if we could, we probably don't have enough tech or wealth.

@Academia Nut What do we have to do to get rice while the Harmurri gets our shipbuilding techniques?
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A secondary and a Main action spread across a few turns to overload their economy to fuel the initial investment? Our diplo passive will probably helps.

EDIT::ninja:
 
Kiba said:
I don't know. Rice can feed a lot more people than any of our other crops. Probably as good as building an ironwork alone, without the pesky tech issue.

So pretty damn valuable.
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So yes it would be nice, but would it be more important or necessary or immediate than any other task we have on the list?

Not really I think :/
 
Sivantic said:
So yes it would be nice, but would it be more important or necessary or immediate than any other task we have on the list?

Not really I think :/
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We have fires to put out. Rice can wait.

However, it's more than double the calories per acre provided by wheat, and unlike Ironwork, it doesn't cost us actual EE. All it just means we turn some of our farmlands into rice paddies.

It's not nice to have, but important.

But critical projects come first, like the dam+canal so that we can get access to our existing farmland first. Then we can think about importing rice to improve caloric productivity, because there's no point in growing rice if you don't already taking advantage of what you do have.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
People we need to focus on the administrative problems we have, SHINIES ARE NO GO.
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No.
More.
Distractions.
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Out of curiosity, what would you consider "distractions"?

Is expanding forests a distraction?
Is trying to get the Dam built a distraction?
Is trying to raise up our Cavalry score a distraction?
Is buying cultural/religious/industrial tech a distraction?
Is trying to get a free megaproject from Quest completion a distraction?
Is building more palace annexes to get a second Tech discount a distraction?
Is trying to maintain ourselves in a Golden Age (with the 6+ income we get from that) a distraction?



Can you think of any particular things that we do which would qualify as distractions?
 
PrimalShadow said:
Is expanding forests a distraction?
Is trying to get the Dam built a distraction?
Is trying to raise up our Cavalry score a distraction?
Is buying cultural/religious/industrial tech a distraction?
Is trying to get a free megaproject from Quest completion a distraction?
Is building more palace annexes to get a second Tech discount a distraction?
Is trying to maintain ourselves in a Golden Age (with the 6+ income we get from that) a distraction?
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no
no
no
yes
maybe
yes
oh hell yes, golden ages effectively blind the thread to all the fires without putting them out.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Out of curiosity, what would you consider "distractions"?
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I think SpeckofStardust is just focusing on the fascination of Kiba with rice.

Kiba said:
We have fires to put out. Rice can wait.

However, it's more than double the calories per acre provided by wheat, and unlike Ironwork, it doesn't cost us actual EE. All it just means we turn some of our farmlands into rice paddies.

It's not nice to have, but important.

But critical projects come first, like the dam+canal so that we can get access to our existing farmland first. Then we can think about importing rice to improve caloric productivity, because there's no point in growing rice if you don't already taking advantage of what you do have.
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Yep, so bottom of the list it goes then.
 
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