Empirical evidence indicates that we can't keep laying down new roads, or laying new palace annexes.
We need to get to over 50% connectivity, then we can lay down new roads to our heart's content.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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- Original
We need to get to over 50% connectivity, then we can lay down new roads to our heart's content.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I definitely don't want to be floating at 15 for "a couple centuries" just to see what the narrative effects of admin strain might be. At the very least, I want us to touch the TS & TH and to absorb Gulvalley. And even that is ignoring the NW, which I dislike the thought of.
But so long as we're more connected to the TS&TH I'm fine with sitting for a while and altering things. And I'm not in such a rush to achieve this connection that I'd oppose getting to 60% interconnectivity, Dam + Canal, and all our annexes built. (Not necessarily that order.)
So we know that we have a diplomatic update coming up.
So far, we can predict that
-The Freehills joined the games
-The Western Ymaryn were vassalized/the Western Ymaryn defeated the Storm Tribes
-We contacted the Salt People
Further speculation
-The Highlanders did something
-???
So far, we can predict that
-The Freehills joined the games
-The Western Ymaryn were vassalized/the Western Ymaryn defeated the Storm Tribes
-We contacted the Salt People
Further speculation
-The Highlanders did something
-???
I'm pretty sure the Guilds panic immediately, we may not lose Stability if we manage to increase our Wealth above 10 by the end of the turn. That is not a sure thing, though. We might lose the Stability and then immediately regain it, but that would put off our Golden Age by at least another turn.
Either way, I want us to generate some Wealth. We are really hurting for Navy score (we're reduced to 1) right now and those cost 5 Wealth a pop. We need to start thinking
We could do it starting the turn after next. By doing a {M} Build Road and combining it with PSN {M} Expand Forest, we can easily generate a road and forest per turn at the cost of a main action. The issue is, we'll need to give ourselves just as enough room to be able to cycle PSN which we should be able to do after we do a PSN during our next mid-turn. 6 Roads and 6 Forests would go a long way to dealing with some of our long-term issues. The +2 Cent cap from roads alone would be a huge boon. 6 turns of forests could do a lot to help us discover how to produce things like citrus fruits, olives, honey, or paper.
The issue would be obtaining the necessary Wealth. If we hit a Golden Age during our next Mid-Turn, then that's not a problem. Either way, we need to build up some Wealth so that we have options. We're in need of Spiritbonded, Navy, more Martial, roads... there's so many things that we could spend Wealth on, but our stats are just too low for it to be possible. We really screwed ourselves by reducing the amount of Econ we have available and getting rid of all of our Wealth.
We'll have the option to help people and it will be a really good idea for us to do so. (Astrological Prediction: 90)
{G} Gold Mine (-4 Econ, -1 LTE, -3 Tech, +11 Wealth, +trade good, +gold mine, +Trader Mission Complete)
{G} Kilns (-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, -1 Tech, +3 Net Forests)
{M} Expand Forests (-3 Econ, -3 EE, +1 Net Forest, +4 Econ next turn)
{S} Raise Army (-2 Econ, -3 Wealth, +5 Martial, +1 Culture)
{S} Integrate Colony - Gulvalley (-6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating Colony)
{S} Hunt Troublemakers
{S} War Missions - Pirates (-??? martial, +decreased pirate presence)
Here is my proto-plan, assuming we get to use a Guild Action for the Mine.
Raise Army and Integrate Colony increase our Martial. Hunt Troublemakers tells us how we resolve the loyalty issue with our subordinates. A war mission because it is presumably necessary.
The only part I'm hesitant about is Expand Forest. I want to do it, but I'm not sure if we can spare the time...
{G} Kilns (-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, -1 Tech, +3 Net Forests)
{M} Expand Forests (-3 Econ, -3 EE, +1 Net Forest, +4 Econ next turn)
{S} Raise Army (-2 Econ, -3 Wealth, +5 Martial, +1 Culture)
{S} Integrate Colony - Gulvalley (-6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating Colony)
{S} Hunt Troublemakers
{S} War Missions - Pirates (-??? martial, +decreased pirate presence)
Here is my proto-plan, assuming we get to use a Guild Action for the Mine.
Raise Army and Integrate Colony increase our Martial. Hunt Troublemakers tells us how we resolve the loyalty issue with our subordinates. A war mission because it is presumably necessary.
The only part I'm hesitant about is Expand Forest. I want to do it, but I'm not sure if we can spare the time...
We may not need to Hunt Troublemakers; the next update is centered on diplomacy and that's likely to give us a pretty good idea of why our colonies are growing distant.
Expand Forest isn't a great idea right now. It's LTE negative and we're going to be going into next turn with something like -1[+7-6] EE. We really need to generate some EE next turn. {M} New Settlements gives us 6 EE, +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism.
We only have 9 EE right now and PSN {M} Expand Econ is going to use 10 of that up... We know we can go negative before we hit overcrowding, but that is not something I want to happen.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Doesn't integrate give EE?
Also we're spending 6 Econ, so we're only going down to 5 EE. Then his proto-plan spends a bunch of Econ to raise that higher.
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Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I would like to reiterate that we will not be falling to negative EE, on account of refunds from the Redshore Aqueduct.
Nope, {M} Expand Forest is net +1 LTE so long as we have at least 3 cities. -3 LTE on that turn but then +4 LTE next turn since the +4 Econ doesn't cost any extra Econ Expansion.
Integration is also massively positive in LTE by a relatively ridiculous amount. (Like, +15 or so IIRC)
If we don't need to Hunt Troublemakers, I'll sub it out. We'll see how it goes.
Expand Forest is temporarily LTE negative; once the forest pays off at the end of the turn it give us back +4 Econ and with it +4 LTE.
You forgot to count the 6 EE we get back from Aqueducts. We are currently at 27 LTE, and will still be roughly there at start of turn; if anything, we will be a bit better since Aqueducts produce +1 LTE (on top of refunding its Econ cost as EE, which they do just like all other expenses). So baring any surprises, our next turn is going to start at 22 Econ, 6 EE.
I'm broadly for it.
If we don't need to do Hunt Troublemakers, then we could do a {S} Build Porcelain Works action. It does not require a sustainable forest and it would help us to continue contesting the Fine and Common Pottery trade goods.
Support Subordinate may be one of the alternatives we have to pick depending on how the next diplomatic update goes. Either for Hunt Troublemakers, or Expand Forests.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So I know extended projects that take 6+ progress can be doubled up and go in the Main slot, and we seem to do it with Expand Economy, but what about actions like Blackbirds, or two different Palace Annexes?
IMO we have much better things to do than try to contest trade goods, even if we don't overflow into wealth.
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We don't have the Wealth for Roads.
We also don't need to do any of the other stuff for integrating Gulvalley. Integration is Centralization neutral relative to our cap; it decreases our cap and our actual Cent by the same amount.
Since people were discussing the narrative effects of passives, I had a thought on passives and the Palace annexes working together narratively. Take the Diplomacy passive and combine it with the Great Hall and the Gardens. Narratively we're making contacts with our neighbours, we have an area to wine and dine them, while the Gardens make the place aesthetically pleasing and shows off our amazing nature skills.
The Armament passive combined with our Arsenal, and Stables when we build it, could mean that we're training small numbers of well equipped and trained warriors or constantly working on improving the training and equipment provided.
Patronage provides support to the arts and culture. When combined with the Great Hall annex it could mean that one way we do this is inviting aspiring artists and such to perform and show off their works in the Palace. Having a theatre in the city probably effects this as well, to be fair.
These are just the most obvious ones, but it probably wouldn't take much to come up with a reason that some of annexes have an effect on the passive. It also seems likely that if a policy is left on long enough then it might improve in effectiveness. Diplomacy seems an obvious one, along with Trade, since both include making contacts and improving relations, albeit for different reasons. The better your relations and the longer you've kept them somewhat positive, the more you are likely to get out of the relationship.
The Armament passive combined with our Arsenal, and Stables when we build it, could mean that we're training small numbers of well equipped and trained warriors or constantly working on improving the training and equipment provided.
Patronage provides support to the arts and culture. When combined with the Great Hall annex it could mean that one way we do this is inviting aspiring artists and such to perform and show off their works in the Palace. Having a theatre in the city probably effects this as well, to be fair.
These are just the most obvious ones, but it probably wouldn't take much to come up with a reason that some of annexes have an effect on the passive. It also seems likely that if a policy is left on long enough then it might improve in effectiveness. Diplomacy seems an obvious one, along with Trade, since both include making contacts and improving relations, albeit for different reasons. The better your relations and the longer you've kept them somewhat positive, the more you are likely to get out of the relationship.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Technically thats only true if it doesn't have good enough roads to provide a centralization per province it provides. Given western wall had 4 seemingly well developed and road-ed provinces and only gave 2 back, iirc, its possible gulvalley wont provide any, but its also possible it provides one.
To be more specific, we are currently at a tolerance of "High" + 3:
-Government Base ("High")
-17 Interconnectivity (+5)
-Legacies (+2)
-14 Provinces (-1)
-1 Non-Supported True Cities (-1)
-2 Governor's Palaces (-2)
When AN thought we had 2 more cities active, we were at "High" + 1 tolerance, and we were at Red exactly (and overcentralized) with 9 centralization. That means that (barring possible hidden modifiers we dont know about, which should be consistent at least for a turn or two) our governments base limit, "High", is 8.
Next turn, unless things change, we'll have 2 more cities active, with no other cent tolerance changes, and be down to 7 centralization.
That leaves us at "High" + 1 tolerance, where 9 is red, while only at 7 cent. So we'll have a safety margin of 1 cent or cent tolerance, to either go to 8 cent/limit 9, or 7 cent/limit 8.
So even if gulvalley has enough roads to refund its cent cost, and teh province cent tolerance penalty rounds up, we'll be at second yellow number, 7 cent/limit 8.
Note that AN has said that PSN doesn't always trigger. It almost always does, seemingly especially if we have any needs it could help with like low econ or being close to forest cap, but we shouldn't count on it always happening.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Nothing in particular apparently since AN has said they cannot trigger golden age innovation rolls.
If it did, it'd probably be some evolution to our ability to manipulate Cent or possibly Cent cap.
We've seen times when EVERYTHING was rolled, though - even stuff that shouldn't normally be rollable. So it isn't out of the question...
(Then again. If that isn't out of the question, then is it possible to have a Hierarchy innovation? What would that even mean?)
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I guess one or two points of hierarchy could be spent while making some sort of sense, but any more of that and it has to be our empire collapsing.
Bureaucratic reform?
If we adopt something like the Imperial Examination, which is very much possible with The Academy.
Also, can people contribute to the timeline wiki article? I also started the Roll of Kings article, but didn't imported info from @Dutch unless he gives his permission?
Oh, it is certainly possible for us to get Hierarchy reform, either via tech, a megaproject, or by being offered directly as a Golden Age innovation.
The question is, what would an innovation for that stat look like? For our other stats, an innovation somehow uses up the stat to give us an effect. That doesn't sound like it would translate well to Hierarchy.
I suspect we will spend other stats to get it, like wealth or culture.
Dutch
Bored Spearman of the Wind
- Location
- CET
Go for it.
Edit: Unnamed kings might be a bit of a mess here and there though, since it's hard to measure when a reign ends without a character calling it out IC in a period where events are happening in quick succession.
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ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Me: Hey, nobody's made a wiki page about the Thunder Horse yet, I'll put together a couple sentences and at least get the basics down.
@Kiba, probably: I'm going to map out every turn in detail and correct all the mistakes and format everything and rewrite everything.
Seriously, quality work. I don't know how you do it.
@Kiba, probably: I'm going to map out every turn in detail and correct all the mistakes and format everything and rewrite everything.
Seriously, quality work. I don't know how you do it.