Integrating Gullvalley yeah sure. Once we shut down Second Sons we could digest their stat points.It doesn't matter if Trelli is more valuable than the Thunder Twin, we still get dinged with Lord Loyalty if we have to keep up the balancing act.
Which is why I propose integrating Gullvalley to get rid of another subordinate we have to care about.
Freehills:Question, putting aside the moral arguments and ethnic cleansing, do you think Freehills can hold Trelli?
And if they can't why do you think we can? (Honest curiosity I want to know your reasons)
-Smaller, weaker actions compared to ours. Consider the scale, they should be at 1 Old Main, 2 Old Secondaries. Which is to say they have only 1 Main by our standards. Our Mercenary Company has more Martial than they do.
-No Navy. They don't even have grand docks to build warships with. They'd be reliant upon integrating Trell rapidly to use Trell
-Historical feud. Freehills was founded by the people in the world who hate the Trelli the most. Our warriors spent nearly as much time stopping them from lynching the Trelli civilians during the past war as actually fighting the Trelli.
-Geographically nearer, so its easier to get people in place.
-Government model uses direct democracy, which is a model of government that scales up poorly at Iron Age tech level.
Ymaryn:
-Stronger actions. Reminder that we didn't even put much effort into smooshing pirates. We sent a secondary war mission and forced the Pirate Hero to retreat.
-Has a Navy at all. This being an advanced stat, it's quite significant.
-Historical knowledge and options for dealing with vassals. We have the options to Support and Influence subordinates directly, of which the latter was obtained through a decision chain to give our subordinates lots of shit to flip them.
-Geographically further away, though administratively not that far away by Catamaran.
I believe that Freehills can hold Trell, but would be forced to do it the brutal way if they wanted to keep it.
Pirates were previously looting from both Trelli and the People and doing fine there; not sure what would change if both sides were controlled by the same gov't.
A common pirate operating method is to raid and loot from one party, then turn around and trade with the other. When they raid Trelli shipping they sell to Ymaryn traders, and when they raid Ymaryn traders they sell to the Trelli. Selling Trelli loot to the Trelli or Ymaryn loot to the Ymaryn is not sustainable before someone catches on.
This is needed because pirates need docks to repair their ships as well. Ships are maintenance drama queens, and relying on boarding operations to capture enough ships to keep your fleet going is difficult.
This is why large pirate groups usually wind up founding their own ports...which isn't an option if the Ymaryn hold the entire Black Sea, because it becomes very simple to hunt down such a group. They'd be forced to operate past the straits in that case.
Yes, Salterns are very nice.+3 Wealth per turn is something we could get with 6 salterns, which means 3 Mains and 30 stats in total. Two influence mains and one war main cost 3 Mains and 36 stats in total. If we are thinking about taking the straits and then using two influence mains, we could and should just stay home and build salterns instead.
(Note: It is true that we can't currently build 6 salterns; only 2 are available. However, the fact of the matter is that there are a number of actions we have indicated are more valuable than salterns to us, so by transitivity grabbing those instead of income would in fact be strictly better anyways.)
The raw wealth income however is secondary to Mediterranean access. For as long as we don't hold Trell our traders will persist in making us get access, which is pressure for war, or hideous fees or canal megaprojects etc to bypass, most of which you already oppose.
It also means Tinriver can launch Sailing and Trade missions again, since they can now reach Khemetri.
If Freehills control Trell, we wind up paying them for the privilege of using the straits, we don't get the income boost and this will last for all of 3-5 turns historically before the deal breaks down.As for the Disrupted Trade status, that ends if the Freehills control Trell just as well. Sure, it turns on again if Trell has problems, but I don't see why that wouldn't happen under us too.
And disrupting slavery? I think Freehills also has anti-slavery values or the like, which means them controlling Trell is again no worse than us controlling Trell.
So all in all it sounds like letting the Freehills take Trell and then using the resources freed up by not having to worry about it is more profitable than trying to control Trell ourselves. Unless you have other points to make on top of this?
Functionally, we don't gain 3 Wealth of income(which offsets all current costs), we take 1 Wealth of further losses, and the whole arrangement is inherently transient.
Meanwhile, Freehills doesn't like Slavery, that is true, but they don't have organized religion to transfer the values.
It's a nice Catch-22. It'd be Right to do their contracted duty, but said duty is Wrong.We don't have legal and social responsibility. The UN doesn't exist. All it means that we are morally culpable for helping the Freehill to get their revenge.
But it is a good question if our Companies are willing to disobey Freehill's order to massacre the population in Trelli.
But what happens is they'd just do the massacre. Remember what happened after we rented the Red Banner to the HK and TS? They came back thinking it's not so bad after all.
Unfounded argument. Our subordinates are not breaking away, even the two subordinates stated to be at the highest risk for breaking away.For all the people who are talking about how taking the straits is going to make us immeasurably rich and give us at least one free megaproject - WE AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP IT. Our subordinates with high loyalty and with very similar culture are disobedient and outright treasonous - why you think getting another vassal who'll rebel within a few turns when our current ones are already threatening civil war is a good idea is beyond me, but if you're just focused on how great Trelli would be to own, STOP CHASING THE DAMN SHINIES! No matter how great it'd be in the long term, it won't matter if we collapse because we're dealing with rebellions and the stability drops from that instead of fixing our massive list of problems and bringing the troublesome vassals we already have to heel.
Lovely ad hominen argument there.Hey guys, remember how great listening to veekie advocate for the risky shiny option went last time?
When we ended up starving for no reason?
Any bets how it'll go this time?