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Paths of Civilization

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ETA50M said:
Irrigation and reducing logisitics but the real treasure is the mega project that it unlocks which I'm hoping is a Great Wall or a giant castle that turns it into a moat which we can use to tie down the nomads long enough to call up our armies. See below.
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Hrm. Sounds like a terraforming project to me, rather... turn the steppe into farmlands and/or forests. Which conceivably could indeed require a lot of blacksoil, and a lot of forests. But yeah, I think it's terraforming, not defence.
 
Now lets see the vote, since AN updated like 10 minutes after I finally stopped waiting and went to bed :V

Patricians - Objective: Build a governor's palace within a core province within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Stability

No biggie. Infrastructure policy has it under control

Guild - Objective: Build Glasswords within 1 turns. Success: +1 Tech & Culture, Failure: -3 Tech

We're still building glass swords next turn I'm sure.
Guild actions for Guild Demands
No urgency.

Traders - Objective: Establish a navigable path to the Saffron Sea within 4 turns. Success: Ship innovation, Failure: Trelli gain trade power

So we have a problem that can be solved by aggressive diplomacy, war, or a megaproject.
My answer to this is probably "Why not both".
We try talking, but we build the Canal anyway because that's still hugely beneficial.

Yeomen- Objective: Have 20 or more Sustainable Forest within 3 turns. Success: +2 Sustainable Forest

Love you too Yeomen.
This isn't too hard if we have the Centralization for it, we're already at 16 and we'd get 2 Forests from Forestry policy.

Priests- Objective: Have a level 2 Temple in Dragon Graveyard within 3 turns. Success: Theological innovation

Infrastructure Policy has it covered, but the Religious Authority would be annoying.

Urban Poor- Objective: Build a Main Strength Theatre within 3 turns. Success: +1 Stability

And the Urban Poor are being very nice to us. No cost, only gain. Basically turns Theater into a Festival.
This is good for funding extra kicks, though we don't want to build it right now since we're burning a lot of the culture.

And entertainment is important for both Culture and Stability in cities. The Urban Poor make a lot less trouble when they have amusements beyond prostitutes.

[] [GA] Mitigate Nemesis Fashion (-5 Culture)

The conservative option.

[] [GA] Erase Nemesis Fashion (-10 Culture)

Just as long as we take care of this before the Golden Age ends. It's inconvenient short term, but long term it's going to be a big problem if we're stuck taking bad values.

[] [GA] Gain random hero (-10 Culture)
-[] [GA] Specify: Diplo hero (Additional -2 Culture)
-[] [GA] Specify: Admin hero (Additional -2 Culture)
-[] [GA] Specify: Culture hero (Additional -2 Culture)
[] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[] [GA] Specify: Diplo genius (Additional -3 Culture)
-[] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
-[] [GA] Specify: Culture genius (Additional -3 Culture)

We have had a spate of those. Overall extremely expensive, but unquestionably a good investment here.
Reminder that Intrigue Heroes/Geniuses are Diplomacy based and that we've never gotten a Culture Hero/Genius before.
As far as our current subordinate problems go:
-Admin - Channels resources towards subordinate management and reconstruction. More of the same.
-Culture - Develop new means to push our values and practices onto our subordinates and people. This is the path towards education and arts.
-Diplomacy - Social ties and personal connections. The Khemetri used theirs to launch a giant marriage campaign to ensure peace with us, we can use a Diplomacy Hero to infiltrate the power structures of our vassals and tie them closer to us so that a transition to our system is less shocking

[] [GA] Random culture tech upgrade (-8 Culture)

Hard to guess on this, but all culture techs help push social values.
I'd hazard a guess that it's probably going to be Tapestry or Painting. But it's just a guess

[] [GA] Random materials tech upgrade (-8 Tech)

Everyone's thinking Steel and we have the pieces for it...but with the Northern Trade Post it could just as well be Pitch or Paper.

[] [FC] Redshore

Trade centers are historically the best uses for Free Cities. They need an immensely faster turnaround time on administration to stay on top of constantly changing market conditions. While they will resist central government laws, barring doing something silly like allowing them to raise their own armies, we're fine(watch them exploit a hole in the city guard regulations next :p ).
Traders are never LIKED, even as they have a lot of money.
There is some independence issues, but Redshore is right next to our capital, and shouldn't be physically able to drift away.
Expected effects:
-Overall boost in trade power over time.
-Smuggling better controlled.
-Trade restrictions loosened.

[] [FC] Sacred Forest

Religious centers on the other hand are historically problematic as Free Cities. They'd likewise resist central government laws, but while other cities have to bow eventually, religious centers have the rather hard to contest option of "the gods said so".
Being near the capital helps, but not enough.
Expected effects:
-Boosted religious authority
-Divergence in religious law from secular law
-Increased dominance of Forest in Ymaryn religion compared to other elements

[] [FC] Redhills

Industrial centers are a mix. Here, theres not a lot that actually NEEDs a True City to function, but at the same time there's not a lot that can go wrong with them being so close to the capital and landlocked...except if they go rogue they have the ability to outfit their own army better than the capital can eventually.

Expected effects:
-Boosted production efficiency and innovation rate for Iron and Steel.
-Loosened industrial safety and quality of life standards though mitigated by our Law's focus.
-Puts a strategic good production under subordinates.

[] [FC] Stallionpen

Hoo boy, this is the actually really terrible one. It's a religious center, recently integrated with a divergent culture slowly blending in, and it's very far from the center of government. It also has it's own iron mine nearby and their own docks.
The main benefit here is military defense, you can expect a Stallionpen FC to immediately invest into Infrastructure Colossal Walls, and having independent local government is rather useful if they get surrounded by a horde for a while.

Expected effects:
-Reduces admin strain the most narratively.
-Increased defensibility against Nomads
-Creates a city with basically everything it needs to go rogue except it's own army.

[] [FC] Just one FC
[] [FC] None

And the conservative options.

[] [Diplo] Talk with the Trelli (Main Trade Mission - Trelli)

If we don't take the Diplomat Genius, do it now to see if we can get the Trelli to unclench their sphincter so we don't have to make a new hole.

[] [Diplo] Talk with southern neighbours (Sec Trade Mission - Highlanders + Lowland Minors (South-West))

Diplo-annexation efforts. Also greatly eased with a Diplomat Hero.

[] [Diplo] Victory lap (Main Salt Gift)

"Hey guys we're nice aren't we?"

[] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)

This meanwhile works to replenish the Centralization we're burning rather quickly. Never a bad idea.

[] [Diplo] Stay home, plant trees (Main Expand Forest)

Pushes towards the Yeomen mission, but currently not super urgent.

[] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
-[] [React] Kick project (ISoO already triggered this turn)

Lets Hertytyn see the completion of the project and see if we can take those math innovations further.

[] [React] Main Build Glassworks

Pass, we got the Guild action for this.

[] [React] Main Expand Forests

Pass, not urgent, we can do it with the next Personal freebie.

[] [React] Main Build Watchtowers

Well, it can't hurt....

[] [React] Main Build Theatre

Not enough Culture for this with a Genius.

[] [React] 2xSec Dragon Graveyard Temple
[] [React] 2xSec Blackmouth Governor's Palace

We can just let the Policies do this. They'd finish soon enough.

So actual vote:
[X] [GA] Mitigate Nemesis Fashion (-5 Culture)
[X] [GA] Erase Nemesis Fashion (-10 Culture)
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Diplo genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redshore
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
-[X] [React] Kick project (ISoO already triggered this turn)

Approval voting for the GA, I prefer to remove debilitating beliefs where I can, but it's not super urgent.
Of the Genius types, the Diplomat probably would be our best lead into the whole spying thing.

As per the above breakdown, these two would be fine, but reading the arguments is kind of funny because Stallionpen and Redhills are strategically far more dangerous as a Free City than Redshore.

Spend down one Stability so we can quest it up.
 
Reader of all said:
Mana they are meant to signify the bread which christ served at the last supper and also the stuff god made rain down to feed the jews during their journey to canaan they are supposed to taste like frosted honey flakes according to the bible but they just taste slightly sweet with the texture of a dry wafer.
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Or they are they and the wine become the blood and flesh of christ if you are Catholic-Orthodox
 
veekie said:
Of the Genius types, the Diplomat probably would be our best lead into the whole spying thing.
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Dude, look at all the actions we have to do. Are you confident that we the players will be able to pick the right ones in order to achieve everything? With an Admin Genius it's likely that all the right actions will be done and with the players it's not. A Genius Diplomat would also mean we'd have to use him for diplomatic actions, which means actions that won't help in doing all the quests.
 
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maximillian said:
It is the sacraments, the most holy and sacred act in their entire faith and the actual basis of the church.
It has very little to do with eating people.
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Depends on the interpretation.

The most Orthodox interpretation is that the Eucharist literally transforms into the Body which you then take into yourself.

More reformist teachings have it as representing Christ's salvation and not literally eating a part of Christ.

So it's really up to which school you subscribe too.

Now enough religious talk. Who wants to come up with ideas for advancing road technology?
I want to get Macadam roads!
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Concho117 said:
Now enough religious talk. Who wants to come up with ideas for advancing road technology?
I want to get Macadam roads!
​
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Well if we go with Genius Admin-san and roads like we seem to be doing we shall probably see some interesting things shaking out of it. I'm thinking something like the gallery roads of the Shudao. Being able to go around our mountains a little easier would alleiviate many likely headaches.
 
Concho117 said:
Now enough religious talk. Who wants to come up with ideas for advancing road technology?
I want to get Macadam roads!
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A lot of power for crushing stones (trip hammer). Check
A lot of lower-skilled people (a bit less skilled than farmer but more skilled than urban poor). Check
A need of excellent roads, due to bulk stuff moving and/or population movement. Check

The major leading points of development are there, i guess we just need to expand trail a lot. Like double or triple road? =w=
 
VoidZero said:
A lot of power for crushing stones (trip hammer). Check
A lot of lower-skilled people (a bit less skilled than farmer but more skilled than urban poor). Check
A need of excellent roads, due to bulk stuff moving and/or population movement. Check

The major leading points of development are there, i guess we just need to expand trail a lot. Like double or triple road? =w=
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Cast ROAD with a Genius Admin who needs to get resources from one place to another quickly would be my guess. (I'm voting for diplo though because I want to cast DIPLOMACY)
 
Andres110 said:
Dude, look at all the actions we have to do. Are you confident that we the players will be able to pick the right ones in order to achieve everything? With an Admin Genius it's likely that all the right actions will be done and with the players it's not. A Genius Diplomat would also mean we'd have to use him for diplomatic actions, which means actions that won't help in doing all the quests.
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It's not guaranteed that an Admin Genius will be in a position to make decisions for us instead of improve them. Especially since they're a genius. Vote a hero if you want that, since they seem much more mentally stable.
 
VoidZero said:
The major leading points of development are there, i guess we just need to expand trail a lot. Like double or triple road? =w=
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More than that, I think we could try Build Mills. If all of our mills are in constant use grinding ore, flour and other essential things, spending the time to crush useless rocks probably just wouldn't occur to anyone. We even have bonuses to Mill Innovation still, I think.
 
So whose hyped for tomorrow's update?

I'm curious to see how Academia Nut is going to work the indecision between Diplo and Admin into the narrative.
 
Hangwind said:
No? Slaves are literally the best source of "burst" power for a ship in these days. And again, Catamarans without pitch are going to be slower than single hulled ships without. Especially if they're heavily loaded.
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Wrong. Slaves are the last people you want to fighting your war for you. There's a reason why the ancient world use paid sailors. They would be motivated to fight for you, instead of lynching their captain so that they can be freed by Ymaryn sailors.
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Concho117 on Aug 7, 2017 at 11:58 PM, finished with 99112 posts and 107 votes.
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Academia Nut said:
Ugh. Bloody traders.
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I'm finding it quite amusing that most people are really annoyed at the patricians, while I find myself agreeing with Hertythn on the traders. Although I am happy that the NTP was founded, I quite enjoy the exploration of new lands and meeting new people parts of the quest.

Thought about my vote a bit more and decided to change to Admin Genius. Don't expect the southern trade mission to win, but I'm reasonably pleased with more roads instead.

[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redshore
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [Diplo] Talk with southern neighbours (Sec Trade Mission - Highlanders + Lowland Minors (South-West))
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
-[X] [React] Kick project (ISoO already triggered this turn)
 
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