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Paths of Civilization

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Susano said:
What?

The point of that canal would be irrigation. Canals and rivers do shit all against nomads. Read the thread tags: Nomads are not fey! They can pass running water easily enough.


*whistles innocently*


That is how the Ymarrin have always been: Industrious, but dour and dull. Get something done, but at the price of working all day, and then even the alcohol sucks. Now, you can validly say you want to change that, but "now" is wrong - we have always been that.
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You are right we have always been that. But we are an empire now so maybe we want to get some sun king on.
 
WeaponX1023 said:
I think we also need to add schools to that list. Even though we like to think ourselves as the good guys it seems we have weak morals when it comes to certain things. We should extend our tradition of generosity and kindness to not only strangers but to each other.
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Well I stopped thinking of the Ymaryn as "the good guys" when that debate started generating massive salt and I saw the idea for us to be the Regional True Ending Boss instead. :V


I feel like since that happened it's actually more fun for me to vote for nice actions because I don't have to step into the debate and can instead frame it in the sense of the True Boss joke. E: If I even care too. Most times when I do vote for nice things I just do it because I want to.
 
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Manget said:
You are right we have always been that. But we are an empire now so maybe we want to get some sun king on.
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Sun King? To hell with that noise. No self-aggrandization of the nobles. Some more levity in popular culture is one thing, but please no expensive, useless glory chasing of the upper class. No grand, over-ornate palaces or pyramids or the like. Those things are build with resources taken away from the common people.
 
[X] [GA] Mitigate Nemesis Fashion (-5 Culture)
[X] [FC] Stallionpen
[X] [FC] Just one FC
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)

Go away Debilitating Beliefs, pretty hard to work on those.
 
WeaponX1023 said:
I think we also need to add schools to that list. Even though we like to think ourselves as the good guys it seems we have weak morals when it comes to certain things. We should extend our tradition of generosity and kindness to not only strangers but to each other.
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Schools at this juncture just indoctrinate the young into what the church and the culture/arts desire. So you need those latter two to be very well developed if you want schools to dictate the morality you propose.
 
maximillian said:
Schools at this juncture just indoctrinate the young into what the church and the culture/arts desire. So you need those latter two to be very well developed if you want schools to dictate the morality you propose.
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Just a random thought but do we actually have any units who can REALLY terrify the enemy? Like actually look scary. Maybe Blackbirds would fit but it might be cool to have some warriors dressed as monsters or something.
 
maximillian said:
Schools at this juncture just indoctrinate the young into what the church and the culture/arts desire. So you need those latter two to be very well developed if you want schools to dictate the morality you propose.
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*looks at our 9 RA*

I'm thinking that's the case right now.

Granted since we are still in the Late Bronze Age Gyms and such are going to be servicing only a limited portion of our population(which is not a reason to not build them), until there are lots of them and other things like theatre's.

I seem to recall us having a discussion similar to this Mr. Sheep and you saying that if we want to teach a wider range of people that we'd need more festivals and theatres. Though that could have been Susano. I can't quite recall.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Concho117 on Aug 7, 2017 at 9:28 PM, finished with 99003 posts and 101 votes.
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Susano said:
Sun King? To hell with that noise. No self-aggrandization of the nobles. Some more levity in popular culture is one thing, but please no expensive, useless glory chasing of the upper class. No grand, over-ornate palaces or pyramids or the like. Those things are build with resources taken away from the common people.
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It was built by the resources of the aristocrats, the burghers and the clergy, and how they got those resources is the same way modern governments get theirs.

Those "useless things" are some of the greatest works of human ingenuity and passion in existence, they made the perfection and bueaty of dreams into reality, they are a testament to the divine within man.To decry them as waste is to decry all arts as folly, for all art but a surrender to the passions and a service to the soul. Art is not of material value, for it far transcends the material realm.

This derision of art and ceremony, of ornate monuments and structures, of bueaty for it own sake and damn the costs, is derision of the human soul itself!
 
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[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Just one FC
 
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BungieONI said:
*looks at our 9 RA*

I'm thinking that's the case right now.

Granted since we are still in the Late Bronze Age Gyms and such are going to be servicing only a limited portion of our population(which is not a reason to not build them), until there are lots of them and other things like theatre's.

I seem to recall us having a discussion similar to this Mr. Sheep and you saying that if we want to teach a wider range of people that we'd need more festivals and theatres. Though that could have been Susano. I can't quite recall.
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I would support theatres for thier own sake, and the sake of empire. But an educational tool it is definitely not, it can be deeply philosophical and intellectual, it can create cultural intermingling and common points but it aient gonna teach people how to read and write.
 
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maximillian said:
Those "useless things" are some of the greatest works of human ingenuity and passion in existence, they made the perfection and bueaty of dreams into reality, they are a testament to the divine within man.To decry them as waste is to decry all arts as folly, for all art but a surrender to the passions and a service to the soul. Art is not of material value, for it far transcends the material realm.

This derision of art and ceremony, of ornate monuments and structures, of bueaty for it own sake and damn the costs, is derision of the human soul itself!
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Not really.
In the end the people who benefited the most from them were Archaeologists.
And doesn't that say something...
 
[X] [GA] Random materials tech upgrade (-8 Tech)
[X] [FC] Sacred Forest
[X] [FC] Just one FC
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [React] Main Build Theatre

Concrete or better wood working.


[X] [GA] Gain random hero (-10 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin hero (Additional -2 Culture)
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
 
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maximillian said:
Versailles and a slew of other baroque, renaissance and gothic wonders still stand, marred by time and red hands, but it's bueaty is ever dazzling.
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Look, I like baroque architecture, but that time especially was all about the stark contrast between the self-aggrandizing nobles and the starving or freezing (Little Ice Age) peasants. Resources are finite, and people are desperate, some in the cities now even starving. We can do this transcendence of man whatever after we've properly fed and sheltered everyone. And if this takes up all resources? Well that just goes to show that those resources were more needed on that task.
 
maximillian said:
Versailles and a slew of other baroque, renaissance and gothic wonders still stand, marred by time and red hands, but it's bueaty is ever dazzling.
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Yes, and now it's nothing more than a museum.

Outside of a select few cathedrals, any of those large displays of wealth that have no purpose other than religious have inevitably ended up as nothing more than tourist attractions.

Funds directed towards temples and palaces can be better used for the advancement of science or the mitigation of poverty. These things are useful outside of historical curiosity.
 
Concho117 said:
Funds directed towards temples and palaces can be better used for the advancement of science or the mitigation of poverty. These things are useful outside of historical curiosity.
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What is it they say, "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"?

Do not act like museums and the like are useless buildings. There's a reason why they are required for a Cultural victory in Civilizations.
 
It's weird how I can agree with @maximillian's arguments but completely disagree with the topic they're being applied to.

Fancy palaces are useless trash. Fancy cathedrals are not.
 
Omegahugger said:
What is it they say, "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"?

Do not act like museums and the like are useless buildings. There's a reason why they are required for a Cultural victory in Civilizations.
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Ah. Apologies if I implied that museums were useless.

What I was trying to emphasize was the difference between the intended use of Versailles, a palace of kings, and its current use, a museum.

Museums and libraries are incredible valuable.
 
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Omegahugger said:
What is it they say, "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"?

Do not act like museums and the like are useless buildings. There's a reason why they are required for a Cultural victory in Civilizations.
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They're not treating museums as pointless though? They're saying that for such a grand structure with so many resources invested in it that could have been spent on better things, it inevitably doesn't end up paying out very much.
 
8bitBob said:
The likelihood of a single choice achieving 50% of the vote becomes increasingly unlikely, making it increasingly difficult to actually choose something. It's unfair to the people who didn't want to leave the Genius up to chance, and is pretty necessary for votes that have more than two options.
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Not at all, thanks to Approval Voting. If they don't want to leave it to chance but don't care which one comes up (AKA they really want to waste 3 Culture) they can simply vote for all three options at once.
 
To double check, is a free city outside the King's authority or just like the provincial chief's?
 
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