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Paths of Civilization

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random_npc said:
If we build the canal we will have to conquer the Trelli I think. Their entire civ is centered around being the point of contact between Khemetri and everyone else. If we built a canal we would be yanking the rug out from under them. They would likely try and blockade it out of sheer desperation leading to use having to conquer them.
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In that case we can react appropriately. Then the war has been started by them. But I remain utterly opposed to us starting the war.
 
That canal will trigger a war either when it starts or when it finishes. I would rather we absorbed some more of our lowlands vassals and got some more Governor Palaces to help with administration and internal consolidation before moving in on the Trelli.
 
Citino said:
Actually, what is better in the long term? Trying to diploannex/conquer/destroy the Trelli, or building the Canal? I mean, the canal would be great since it would lead to the Trelli losing most of their wealth as the Khemetri start trading through us instead, but taking the city for ourselves would be pretty amazing.
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Taking the Trelli, but that's long term. Negotiating passage is enough for the time being if that's possible.

The canal will be comparable to the one proposed in the north, but doesn't even give us full control of the route as it goes to Khem held land. So it's a huge amount of actions that results in a lesser result in comparison to getting access to the strait.
 
X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] None
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [React] 2xSec Blackmouth Governor's Palace

We just ate a whole lot of land and still have admin problems within our core provinces. I trust AN Admin genius more than ourselves.
 
Also, just noticed something about the Canal. According to the latest maps, the river that the Canal leads to goes into the Khem colony. We'd be switching one trade partner monopoly for another long term.
 
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[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Diplo genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redshore
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [Diplo] Talk with southern neighbours (Sec Trade Mission - Highlanders + Lowland Minors (South-West))
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
-[X] [React] Kick project (ISoO alreadytriggered this turn)
 
Well, I guess that brings the other question up. How well could we actually fight the Trelli? I'm pretty sure we lose the naval engagements, but based on their mercenary company's performance in the last war, there is pretty much no way that they could beat us in a land war. So we would probably crush their colony, but they might be able to take tinshore?
 
Sivantic said:
X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] None
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [React] 2xSec Blackmouth Governor's Palace

We just ate a whole lot of land and still have admin problems within our core provinces. I trust AN Admin genius more than ourselves.
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Missing a "[" here.
 
random_npc said:
If we build the canal we will have to conquer the Trelli I think. Their entire civ is centered around being the point of contact between Khemetri and everyone else. If we built a canal we would be yanking the rug out from under them. They would likely try and blockade it out of sheer desperation leading to use having to conquer them.
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I have absolutely no problem with this. Let's build the canal.
 
[X] [GA] Erase Nemesis Fashion (-10 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redshore
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [Diplo] Talk with southern neighbours (Sec Trade Mission - Highlanders + Lowland Minors (South-West))
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
-[X] [React] Kick project (ISoO already triggered this turn)

Not too fussed about the free cities, so long as it isn't the religious ones. Would very much like to remove the DB so that we aren't limited so much on who we draw values from, but I might change it depending on how the vote turns out. Finish the megaproject and actually talk to our southern neighbours, for once. The Trelli are unlikely to change their minds and I'd rather start diplomacy with the HK than focus more actions on the Trelli.
 
Citino said:
Well, I guess that brings the other question up. How well could we actually fight the Trelli? I'm pretty sure we lose the naval engagements, but based on their mercenary company's performance in the last war, there is pretty much no way that they could beat us in a land war. So we would probably crush their colony, but they might be able to take tinshore?
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If they can disrupt us at sea that makes any sorts of engagements difficult to support. So we need more boats and more scurvy dogs.
 
Citino said:
Well, I guess that brings the other question up. How well could we actually fight the Trelli? I'm pretty sure we lose the naval engagements, but based on their mercenary company's performance in the last war, there is pretty much no way that they could beat us in a land war. So we would probably crush their colony, but they might be able to take tinshore?
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I am not so sure.
I think we could simply build more ships than them, and drown them in numbers.
The catamarans also should be faster than their ships, so they would not be able to disengage.
 
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [FC] Just one FC
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
 
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Diplo genius (Additional -3 Culture)


[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [FC] Just one FC

[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
 
Citino said:
Actually, what is better in the long term? Trying to diploannex/conquer/destroy the Trelli, or building the Canal? I mean, the canal would be great since it would lead to the Trelli losing most of their wealth as the Khemetri start trading through us instead, but taking the city for ourselves would be pretty amazing.
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the agreement will forestall war but almost certainly involve some sort of long term cost. w/o annexation it is the worst in the longest term. If diploannex is possible - imo it's less likely if we reach an agreement - it is a better choice. Conquering/destroying are viable but require a CB.

The canal will eventually provoke war and cost a fair amount of money, but will make trade in that direction fairly fast and is essentially a one-time fee. Downside is that it opens another access to our lands. Upside is that it opens an access to Khem lands. ;) Ignoring war-risks and assuming the other option is a long term agreement, it's the best long-term choice. Including war risks, the possibility of provoking a defensive war and resultant annexation means it's the best long-term choice.

This is, of course, independent of the idea that the Khem will attack us and ignores the opportunity cost of the canal.
 
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[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [FC] Just one FC
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
 
@Academia Nut
Guild - Objective: Build Glasswords within 1 turns. Success: +1 Tech & Culture, Failure: -3 Tech

Does it mean we have a next turn to do it, so can do it as a [guild] or a [main] action, or do we fail the quest if we do not choose it now?

I think it is the former, but wanted to make sure.
 
Citino said:
Actually, what is better in the long term? Trying to diploannex/conquer/destroy the Trelli, or building the Canal? I mean, the canal would be great since it would lead to the Trelli losing most of their wealth as the Khemetri start trading through us instead, but taking the city for ourselves would be pretty amazing.
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I am not sure a diploannex is a possibility as long as they are still filthy rich. Our values really dont match and under our guidance they would need to ditch the strategy that has carried them to where they are now.

The canal has the massive downside that it loses most of its immediate value as soon as the Trelli stop being dicks though, which could happen quickly once they lose the monopoly on trading our goods to the rest of the area.

8bitBob said:
Also, just noticed something about the Canal. According to the latest maps, the river that the Canal leads to goes into the Khem colony. We'd be switching one trade partner monopoly for another long term.
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Having a choice at all is a huge step forward though.
 
@Hangwind thinks the Trelli will beat us in naval warfare given their boat innovation, which is pitch tar, which he compared to Iron.

I understand pitch tar as an innovation but I don't see how they could possibly compete with us in naval warfare.

We have an innovation roll with our Grand Dock per turn, the forestry to sustain a large ship building program, the sheer size of our polity, siege weapons we can mount on our ships, and the best military force in the world.
 
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