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Paths of Civilization

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PyrrosWarrior said:
I don't care about expanding into the lowlands, I wanted to make friends out of every other neighbor except HK, I would rather religion not gain so much power in our government as predicting an event like this will give them, I don't care about prestige, and I wanted to militarily take over HK in order to have more leverage in forcibly dismantling their separate administrative system.
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So you don't care about anything besides getting rid of the HK?

Why them in particular?
I was mostly worried about them because they can attack us while we're busy, but we just saw the only threat to us get wiped out by a comet and the nomads are too scared by said comet to try and fight us right now.
 
@pbluekan I'm just going to pick up the phone here, because you sorta called it with a bollide impact to the region shortly after the end of the war, though not the scale or target.
 
If the explanation for that prediction is secular, then we now have accurate orbital movement equations around thanks to the genius mystic, which is honestly on the same scale of bullshit.
 
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Raichu1972 said:
So you don't care about anything besides getting rid of the HK?
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I do care about other things. Out of the things you said, I only care about getting rid of the HK. Otherwise, I would rather we not be expansionistic in general, hence my wanting to not expand further in the lowlands.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Aug 6, 2017 at 3:56 AM, finished with 96999 posts and 93 votes.
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Raichu1972 said:
So you don't care about anything besides getting rid of the HK?

Why them in particular?
I was mostly worried about them because they can attack us while we're busy, but we just saw the only threat to us get wiped out by a comet and the nomads are too scared by said comet to try and fight us right now.
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This is true, and I actually agree with you, but I will caution that this state is temporary.

The Nomads will eventually come back and be an issue which could distract us. If the HK are still around and feel up to attacking us while we are distracted(a big if what with this, which they will probably remember for a while) then that would be something we could have avoided by conquering them. But, lots of big ifs being thrown around.



However! This is mostly immaterial since I remember you saying you want to diploannex the HK which deals with them too.
 
PyrrosWarrior said:
I do care about other things. Out of the things you said, I only care about getting rid of the HK. Otherwise, I would rather we not be expansionistic in general, hence my wanting to not expand further in the lowlands.
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Ah.

Well, to look on the bright side, we can't really expand into the Lowlands anymore because we own the Lowlands now.
Well, everything besides what the HK owns, at least.
 
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)

There is no magic but Dice Gods who like fucking with everyone.
 
Raichu1972 said:
Ah.

Well, to look on the bright side, we can't really expand into the Lowlands anymore because we own the Lowlands now.
Well, everything besides what the HK owns, at least.
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We own the entire middle and the west floodplain.

Think about that for a minute. Think about what that means with our farming tech.

Things just really changed.
 
BungieONI said:
This is true, and I actually agree with you, but I will caution that this state is temporary.

The Nomads will eventually come back and be an issue which could distract us. If the HK are still around and feel up to attacking us while we are distracted(a big if what with this, which they will probably remember for a while) then that would be something we could have avoided by conquering them. But, lots of big ifs being thrown around.



However! This is mostly immaterial since I remember you saying you want to diploannex the HK which deals with them too.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the "100 years of peace" part of the prediction was "100 years of everyone being too scared shitless to think about attacking us".
 
There is absolutely no way that the calculations could have predicted where the comet would have hit, our mathematics are nowhere near advanced enough for that, even if we did have an accurate enough body of measurements to base it off of.

That feat is something that would be possible today, but not easily. Managing it before the invention of trigonometry? Before orbital mechanics are properly understood? No fucking way in hell.

Keep in mind that sending Yenyna at the head of an army is the main reason why all of the Thunder Horse's warriors were there to be smashed, and if we hadn't made peace with the Highland Kingdom first, they would almost certainly have panic-attacked us while we were distracted with the almost-literal fallout of the impact.

So if this was a mundane prediction, then it requires being able to calculate where on the planet's surface the comet would impact and knowing that it would be a place corresponding to that particular city, all without having any of the proper mathematics to do that.

All while the results the priests were getting were vague about what was going on.

No, this is a low-magic setting.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
We would have had a religious/governmental crisis if we'd ignored this though, worst case scenario we'd have ended up a theocracy. Best case would merely be confidence in our government institutions plummeting.
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1st: You don't know that. That was entirely up to the dice.
2nd: I highly doubt making religion less powerful would end up with giving them enough power to go theocratic.
3rd: The loss of confidence would merely come from the priest nay-sayers. It would go away after a turn or so and the establishment of a culture that rejects this kind of thing hopefully leading to resistance of the priests' ability to affect our government. Like, you seem to be forgetting that I will assume there is no magic until revealed that there is, at which point I will leave the quest.
 
Academia Nut said:
The body of the Thunder Horse dissolves, leaving behind the flesh of its people
[] [Refugee] Take as many who run to you (4 temporary Econ damage, -4-5 Econ Expansion, +4-5 Econ next turn, chance of stability drop)
[] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
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Does these stability-losses already count our ability to eliminate the first stab-hit from refugees?
 
Wow, looks like we got really lucky! No wait *consults star chart* hmm *scribbles calculations* no not lucky ... gassy! Yes, looks like we're really gassy!

Just kidding, I don't know anymore ...

Pretty sure AN is currently sitting there cackling about all this magic talk though.

In veekie we trust! :V
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
You know what, let's get greedy ... but not too greedy.
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
A lot of refugees, but not all of them.
[] [PttS] Black Mirror
Or not.
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
We're already spending our free Stab on refugees.
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
Yeesssss, the Great Trees call to me.
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
I still have no idea how EE works with overflow and baby boom, so I'm following veekie here.
 
The magic may actually spice things up by adding an element that we can't really predict with our own historical knowledge which would lower the advantage it gives us.
 
PyrrosWarrior said:
Like, you seem to be forgetting that I will assume there is no magic until revealed that there is, at which point I will leave the quest.
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Guess you're gonna have to leave a while back. The Spirit Talkers had this same magitech, and they used it to be a relevant geopolitical power despite having all of a single settlement and no farms.

This is significant evidence that magic exists. It is definitely not a high fantasy setting, but evidence strongly supports some sort of break from IRL physics.
Malevolo said:
If there's magic, i'm out, it nullifies humanity Ingenuity.
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Nah, it just adds another set of physical laws to exploit. Every major University will have a thaumic engineering course.
 
PyrrosWarrior said:
1st: You don't know that. That was entirely up to the dice.
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What do you mean? We know we'd have taken a hit even if nothing at all went wrong when we ignored it. This kind of thing? Would have been a disaster.

PyrrosWarrior said:
2nd: I highly doubt making religion less powerful would end up with giving them enough power to go theocratic.
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It wouldn't have made them less powerful, it would have vindicated them and discredited the government while the populace was angry and fearful and looking of something to blame.

PyrrosWarrior said:
3rd: The loss of confidence would merely come from the priest nay-sayers. It would go away after a turn or so and the establishment of a culture that rejects this kind of thing hopefully leading to resistance of the priests' ability to affect our government. Like, you seem to be forgetting that I will assume there is no magic until revealed that there is, at which point I will leave the quest.
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It would not go away, this would have turned into a tale of the folly of our kings and the foresight of our priests that would stay with our civ for hundreds of years minimum.
 
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Sivantic said:
That was not canon. Academia did not write it.

If Magic is real, I think it is working at a macroscale. Forces much larger than anyone can control, but also very metaphysically loud. Such as there is a an actual Death, and he leaves signs of his destinations(this is what Yenyna sees and her mind interprets). This could mean that in this universe Correlation may in fact equal Causation.
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@BungieONI
Forgot something that may disprove the above completely or simply modify it.

The Star Axe.

It has been a source of bad luck of everyone that has held it. It came from the heavens and was blessed by our shamans. Later on, it was hypothesized that the reason for the curse was that it was blessed with our virtues...which no one else who held it had. This seems an argument that there is some microscale metaphysics, but the fact that it came from the stars could have been the catalyst.
 
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[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
 
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