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Paths of Civilization

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veekie said:
It has also been noted by those who actually worked out the quantities of water involved that this isn't going to happen any sooner than a thousand years, if at that. A Canal capable of draining even 10% of the river flow would be rather impressive as it is.
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Cool. I was worried that you had missed the discussion since you hadn't mentioned it in your analysis. This thread grows just so fast...
 
Omegahugger said:
First of all, we've only attacked the Nomads when they attacked us first. We were never the ones to deal the first blow. But sure, let's take a look at our notable enemies, see what they're really made of.

First we have the nomads. You say they are weaker than us, but there's one thing we can say about them: They might be uncultured barbarians, but they sure know how to fight. Heck, one of the arguments for making with the Khemri was that a Hero Duo from up north would cause us no end of trouble, and we pretty much had to make the Stallion March to hold them off.

Then we have the Xohyr. Our ancestral enemies, monsters who captured and sacrificed so many civilians they were able to build a wall with their skulls. A foe so terrible we needed to borrow the strength of the aforementioned Nomads before we even wanted to fight them. Not only that, they had the world's first True City. We might not want to admit it, but Xohyr was probably the birth of Culture in our region. They were without a doubt our peers.

They might be a bit of a footnote, but I want to bring up the Spirit Talkers as well. We didn't fight much against them directly and neither of us were particularly martially inclined, but they had a profound effect on our military. It was them who taught us the power of mysticism and elitism in warfare, and each of their Berserkers could take on an entire unit of regular troops on their own. You can draw a direct line between the International Games we are building today and the legacy of the Spirit Talkers.

There's also the Thunder Horses/Speakers. Again, not the most frightening foes we've faced, but they are descended from Wendiktos himself. A guy so badass the Ymaryn themselves gave him their blessings and who wielded a fallen star in battle. He led an army so mighty that when they eventually lost, the Ymaryn as a people learned that even the mightiest of heroes can fall.

And finally, we have Khemri. Oh by Gwy, we have the Khemri. Now this was a worthy opponent. A young girl blessed with an unthinkable talent for violence; a God given flesh descending on the battlefield to match her; Armies so large and battles so bloody the battlefield had enough cadavers to fill an enitre city! It was a glorious battle, so terrible and awe-inspiring we immediately began working on ways to fight them again without killing them!

Compared to that, what does the Hill Kingdom have? What exactly makes them worth the effort to take out? They are cowards who are fundamentally unable to face their foes head on, who only attack them once their back are turned.
An insect like that isn't worth the underside of our boots.
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You are blowing a lot of this out of proportion the Xoh weren't exactly a foe so fierce we had to borrow the strength of the aforementioned Nomads, they were a scapegoat so the nomad compromise could fight someone and pin the ecological shift onto someone else.

And then the HK attacked us.

then we fought the Khem and that was a huge shock and had we kept going it would have been a massive drain but we probably would have not broken them but caused major shrinkage in their territory because they couldn't roll over us and that might have prompted some RA drop which the whole civ is based on.

And then the HK attacked us.

and in the future when we are engaged with something that will require massive mobilisation or great resources that leave us vulnerable can you guess what might happen? THE HK WILL ATTACK US!

Better to pay the price now then to get knifed in the back every time we expose a weakness they can strike.
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
[X] [Main] International Games
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X] [Guild] Grand Docks


It's weird I was convinced to get off the war vote by the people for the war weird.

At least I can now vote for something other than being a drug dealer that's good I guess, I thought the trade off was worth it but as I'm not going to vote for war next turn there's no need.

Anyway going to bed see you all later Have a good night.
 
NewAgeOfPower said:
Minor derail, but genetic analysis has indicated that the Ancient Egyptians (over 1000 BCE) were genetically most similar similar to Levantine/Semetic stock. I.E., they're likely light brown, like us.

And now, before anyone cries Racism, I shall provide Science
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Not to bring up an old argument, but everything has been shifted south in PoC by a good few degrees. Pretty sure the Kemetri are black.
Anyway, I like the bandwagon, and I have to get ready for work. I just hope we're nice and impressive when people decide to come! I'd hate for people to show up and be like "that's it?"
 
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[X] [Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
No brainer. This can be only great and should have nice synergies with:

[X] [Main] International Games
Our best bet to prevent a bitter feud with the Khemetri and instead turn it into a friendly rivalry.

[X] [Secondary] New Trails
Cent is good. So are roads to march troops over.

[X] [Secondary] Change Policy -Megaproject Support
Don't think we will need Offensive anymore. Our military is full to the brim, while HK git wiped in the field.

[X] [Guild] Grand Docks
Because why not? Would also be great against the Trelli later.

And we should not forget that the HK need to fall.
 
I don't know why people want to vassalise the HK when that just means they have even more reason to backstab us to try to secede, and the only way to stop this is to use multiple influence subordinate actions that we will never actually do. Just take the passes so they can't attack our vulnerable areas, fortify them until they're completely impregnable, and then ignore them.
 
Mortis said:
I don't know why people want to vassalise the HK when that just means they have even more reason to backstab us to try to secede, and the only way to stop this is to use multiple influence subordinate actions that we will never actually do. Just take the passes so they can't attack our vulnerable areas, fortify them until they're completely impregnable, and then ignore them.
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This plan has been brought up a lot and the one I think will eventuate if we do fight them.

Azel said:
Our best bet to prevent a bitter feud with the Khemetri and instead turn it into a friendly rivalry.
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If this happens I will be putting much less effort into crunching the HK, since being ready for Khem Aggressive Flirting in the future was part of why I want to war with the HK. The other part being their repeated Treachery.
 
CeBrudras said:
Starting a war next turn could mean we rip our Dragon General out of her cute fluffy retirement since she is young to survive until then.
Can you guys really square that with your conscience?
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Yes. After all, it was likely the HK that killed her brother, and they're the ones that were hurt the least in the last war.
Omegahugger said:
Compared to that, what does the Hill Kingdom have? What exactly makes them worth the effort to take out? They are cowards who are fundamentally unable to face their foes head on, who only attack them once their back are turned.
An insect like that isn't worth the underside of our boots.
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They make literally everything worse. More, I refer you to the Evil Overlord list:
Shooting is not too good for my enemies.
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The thing is what do we actually do once we've conquered the HK because integrating people we actively dislike us and have a different culture is going to be a massive pain.
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
[X] [Main] International Games
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X] [Guild] Grand Docks
 
Golden Eyed King said:
No we are worried they will find the gaps
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They found a gap last time. It didn't work. Yes, we only survived that due to a genius general but by the same token we were up against three heroic generals and their armies. Not exactly common circumstances.

Yes, I can see them possibly becoming a threat in 10-15 turns, but I have no problem ignoring them until them.
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
[X] [Main] International Games
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X] [Guild] Grand Docks

Arete has a lot of potential downsides, but IMO its probably still worth it.
Lets see how the NotOlympics turn out. Maybe the HK will try to appease us. That said, I'm ready to go to war with them next turn. But, like some in this thread I'm wondering how exactly we should deal with them...
Vassalisation or a border territory grab are probably the best options, but the former could potential also be achieved via diplomacy. Well, lets just see how this turn plays out.
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
[X] [Main] International Games
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X] [Guild] Grand Docks

The maths checks out and I am exceedingly curious to see what AN makes of this voting plan.
 
Simply put, the HK got on the war your way to victory train and never managed to get off. Even the xoh and TH had to at least deal with vassals. The HK meanwhile, have had to constantly attack to get what they want. It is possible that this last series of events has taught them just how small they are, but unless they give us the leverage over them to force them to heel, we need to assume that they will do so at the next opportunity, again. It's just how their civ operates.
 
No7sHere said:
The thing is what do we actually do once we've conquered the HK because integrating people we actively dislike us and have a different culture is going to be a massive pain.
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Who ever said they will have a choice? We may be a people that practice acceptance but we do have our limits.

Also guys have you people considered the narrative of the guilds building the grand docks and not the central government?
 
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