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Paths of Civilization

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veekie said:
Forgetting the moral argument the practical argument is a flop. We'd need to attack them across an enormous distance into highly defensible terrain.
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I mean... not really we're just sending the red banner to Greenshore and then attacking w/ them. Considering that we easily made Tinriver just stfu and that the MW are quite obviously small, it would not be difficult to subdue them.

The question of where refugees would go is fairly significant. They can go further up the river into unknown territory, flee out into the steppes, or go down the river into our waiting arms.

2/3 is pretty bad, tho.

ANyways, changing my vote:
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X][Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade

Still want the tech upgrade but can definitely see the benefits in either rapidly constructing infrastructure or - what I prefer - innovation policy so that we develop new tech to make up for the loss of the incredible advantage of iron. Kindly remember that Temples and Aqueducts, at least, have drawbacks. Innovation, meanwhile, is merely a crisis-opportunity, as people who have heard other people quote the Chinese character parable love to say.

[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
*shrug* +1-3 stability is nice.
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
I don't actually like this option but y'all want it apparently.

[X] [React] Begin work on Iron Age Law Reform (-3 Mysticism, -1 Art per action, 3-4? actions required)
Doing this gives us a main and/or open secondaries (depending on if we want to one-turn it fasho or not). I recommend that the freed actions be used for integrating WW because they're getting too strong. Obviously, however, something like More Boats or More Mills or Poppy Plantation is equally acceptable.

[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
*shrug*
+2-4 stability is nice. Cultural mixing is nice.



Incidentally, how can we prevent The Games from valorizing martial culture while still impacting our martial culture? Discuss among yourselves.
 
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@Academia Nut are we likely to lose the boat development if we don't finish it? Or are we pretty much locked into having it, it just depends on when it finishes?
 
I want to bring the Metal Workers in our sphere. That sounds like a good way to prolong our dominance in iron. Not economically, but culturally and diplomatically.

Although, it seems like we've started to see the effects of overextension.
 
Heaven's Hawk is down to 3 loyalty and 2 dependence. We need to either influence them next turn or go to vassal support policy.
 
tryrar said:
if we went to war with the MW, how badly would our values be hit?
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*waggles hand*

Depends.

Raichu1972 said:
@Academia Nut would ending this turn at stab 3 put us in a golden age or do we have to have stab 3 at the end of this turn and next turn to enter a golden age?
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If you can get to Stab 3 here, if you can make it to the mid-turn at Stab 3 and two max stats, a golden age will trigger.

pbluekan said:
are we likely to lose the boat development if we don't finish it? Or are we pretty much locked into having it, it just depends on when it finishes?
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It's being worked on, but it could take a while without further support. They're trying to figure out a key component to make the design work, but its not entirely obvious.
 
VoidZero said:
I did mention i voted for stability options, so misread?
Policy change isn't going to kill anyone.
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Sorry, I meant that voted for law over festivals now means that we don't have to main law next turn, which means that if something comes up we can use a main to deal with the problem instead of being forced into maining the law.
 
Academia Nut said:
It's being worked on, but it could take a while without further support. They're trying to figure out a key component to make the design work, but its not entirely obvious.
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I actually recall reading about this in my research, but I can't remember exactly what causes them to crash like this. Care to enlighten me?
 
Yeah we should put our second passsive policy to loyalty and finish the redshore aqeduct for a third true city to help boost innovation and make a merc company as well for ST integration.
 
I want to track what happens to our main stats over the next turn or so. I'm only including General and Cultural stats, and excluding Prestige (because we only rarely care about it) and Martial (since we don't actually want it to go up right now).
Diplomacy 8 [+2]
Economy 16 (+1) [-2+6]
Wealth 16 [+5-1]
Art 12
Mysticism 3 (+7) [+1]

If the vote closed now, our actions w.r.t. the above stats would be:
{S}RO + {S}PJ (-3 Art, -1 Econ)
{S}Trade Mission + {S}Salt Gift (-7 Wealth, 2-3+ Diplo, 1+ Art, 0+ Myst)
{M}Festival (-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art)

Thus, at the end of our turn, our stats should be:
Diplo 10-11+
Econ 15
Wealth 7
Art 14+
Myst 10+

Next turn, assuming our midturn action is {M} Law + {S} Festival + {S} Mercenary Company, and our provinces do {M} Law x2 (from law doubling) + {S} Study Stars, we would be getting -6 (+6) Myst, -1 Econ, -3 Wealth, -1 Art, which when combined with passive income and our 1-3 Wealth loss from the crisis and the +1 from Census, altogether puts us at

Diplo 12-13+
Econ 17
Wealth 6-8
Art 13+
Myst 5+ (+6)

(note: one of the econ above would overflow to Wealth)

So. That means we are maybe close to capping Art, are definitely close to capping Diplo, and have capped Econ. Mysticism is not capped and will take some time to recover, unless we continue the Study Stars trend.

Golden age seems possible, albeit tricky.
 
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Academia Nut said:
*waggles hand*

It's being worked on, but it could take a while without further support. They're trying to figure out a key component to make the design work, but its not entirely obvious.
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So, to the rest of the thread, and guesses as to what's missing that might make it so a double-hulled boat does a submarine impression bow first?
 
Umi-san said:
Incidentally, how can we prevent The Games from valorizing martial culture while still impacting our martial culture? Discuss among yourselves.
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We can't, simply.

We can control the direction it goes, however. If we make it an act of diplomacy and peace, while we will be valorizing martial, we will also be connecting martial activities with a mind set of peace and co-operation. Not perfect, but a step in the right direction.

Edit: As to how we'd do that, I don't know. I am eager for a megaproject based on an action that increases stability all the same though.
 
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Rakuhn said:
Perhaps you are confusing colossal walls and massive walls? As for right now, I'd much rather get a significant wall every turn then a colossal wall every nine turns.
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Biggest Walls! : p
Point is it builds biggest walls >.>
Raichu1972 said:
Doesn't a Golden Age require having max stab for the entire turn.

As in, you have to start the turn on stab 3 and end the turn on stab 3.

So even if we get stab 3 at the end of this turn, we still won't be able to start the Law in a Golden Age at all.
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long blather
Raichu1972 said:
Huh, @Sivantic I guess festival does have merit as long as we roll perfectly this turn.
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I told you so :V
 
[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
 
It's the sail. Most longships are square-rigged, while catamarans have triangle-shaped sails.

Edit: for that matter, most galleys have square rigs, so even if we didn't go the longship route we'd still have this issue.
 
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