*wipes tear*

Beautiful and true <3


...???

The notion of ownership or the passing thereof is not contingent upon a King existing or not. Ownership is avowedly a fairly fundamental mindset, considering how mine-y young children are.

Deeds & Contracts require a formal acknowledgment of right to ownership or the passing thereof, which mostly just requires a formal system within which this acknowledgment can take place. This doesn't require something as formal as law, it can be as simple as a communal acknowledgement of stated intent (i.e. wills) or communal recognition of ownership typically for the purpose of being supplied to an uninformed outside e.g. certificates, deeds.

Law, however, helps. The Trell have currency and thus have formal systems and thus can be assumed to have some form of law.



OK I should have worded it better.

I was referencing the Ymaryn ability to develop such concepts since they lack the prequsite concept of private ownership of things of significance.


Basically the king is the sole owner of anything and everything, both metaphorically and literally, which stunts the development of contracts and deeds.
 
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Continue to believe that the people AN has said would struggle to take on an isolated Red Banner could attack our kingdom directly.

Our problem here would be supplying the TP during a blockade. If we can break apart the blockade, we can survive.

I'm usually paranoid but that's just ridiculous, especially as West Wall can supply armies directly to Green Shore as they did during the second to last Great Nomad War when they sent aid to the Metal Workers in the form of armies.

We did not send an army. We sent aid to put out the fire. Granted it didn't work, but it brought MW time.
 
You mean because China is doing the same thing that USA is doing with their dollar to petroleum?

Both sides have bubbles and both side can't live without the other. Unless people think great depression is sunshine and flowers.
Umm, what? No.

China literally just changes the value of their currency relative to the international markets to the point that it goes against established patterns. The dollar follows the natural market forces along with most every other currency.

I don't really get what petroleum has to do with any of this other than being one of those things that will cause a huge market recession when it finally runs out without adequate preparation.
 
You are underestimating someone who we have never even seen fight before.
What I'm getting from AN's descriptions are that the Trelli are a city-state that is mercantile that recently developed the idea of currency and used it to fund a ton of semi-loyal mercenary armies to fight and plunder.

These armies are definitely not uniformly armed or supplied, so some are likely weaker than others.

There most loyal army is probably armed predominantly in Bronze, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them had stone weapons.

Their armies are likely not like the Red Banner (i.e homegrown), so they won't be able to just absorb them into their martial score and not have to pay for them.

So the likely best ways to defeat them are to cut off their supply of wealth, and thus make them unable to pay for their mercenary companies, or to hire the better companies at a higher rate, since they shouldn't be particularly loyal to the Trelli.
 
Continue to believe that the people AN has said would struggle to take on an isolated Red Banner could attack our kingdom directly.
Look at the wording of his post. They could give the Red Banner a really bad day before they call in their neighbors. If they bring in everyone at once, exit Red Banner.
 
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Um... Since we have *never once* fought against them or any of their allies, do you have any actual basis/evidence for this assertion?
Yes, they would struggle against a largely unsupported, isolated Red Banner as per AN. Then we have to factor in our Yeoman armies, even without our Vassals directly aiding us, are just as strong and can reach Metal Worker territory via the land and thus Greenshore, this includes logistical support.

If they struggle to take an isolated Red Banner and Trade Post, good luck trying to take a logistically easier to support city, especially as they will already be weakened by their fight with the Red Banner.
 
I was referencing the Ymaryn ability to develop such concepts since they lack the prequsite concept of private ownership of things of significance.
considering that we pass down luxuries or items of spiritual significance within families and have, acc. to an old response by AN, a habit of "loaning" items to other people to build up social credit, we certainly have the prerequisite concept of ownership.

Whether this is a conception that entails individual ownership or is recognized in law is debatable.

I do not feel that "private" is important. Even if everything is theoretically owned by the state and thus public, if the lease to it is held by a person the object can be considered to be owned by that person. At least when thought of in respect to the normal state of affairs.
 
You are underestimating someone who we have never even seen fight before.
And you are underestimating the hegemon of the immediate region (us). They go for our northern coast, and the Stallion Tribes and the Hawks march.

They go for Green Shore? Golly Gee, they're not the only ones who can pay nearby tribes to help fight.

They go for Hatriver? Well, I hope they're able to pull of some kind offensive 300 bullshit because literally tens of thousands of warriors can be levied up. Seriously, we're sitting around a population of ~1,000,000 if we field a single percent of that we're looking at 10,000 men under arms. And considering we have an entire thing about fielding fuck heug armies, it'll probably be closer to 50k than 10.

We're closer than anyone else to fielding those huge armies that are famous in the mid-BCs, and that's one hell of a strength.
 
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Yes, they would struggle against a largely unsupported, isolated Red Banner as per AN. Then we have to factor in our Yeoman armies, even without our Vassals directly aiding us, are just as strong and can reach Metal Worker territory via the land and thus Greenshore, this includes logistical support.

If they struggle to take an isolated Red Banner and Trade Post, good luck trying to take a logistically easier to support city, especially as they will already be weakened by their fight with the Red Banner.

No. He said the TP would be difficult to supply in the first place.
 
ehh
Again, I want the West trade post to win just to see how everything burns in vain hope the thread learns to not be so overconfident...but it did not work with taxes, it will not work now.
 
@Academia Nut
What's our pop. by the way?
-And, more specifically, how many people reside in Redshore?

Do the Trell produce Tin internally as the trade good list would seem to indicate?
Does the map accurately reflect their occupied land?

It's up there mate I you want to refresh your memory, because what you just said sounds like you forgot what it actually said....
The Red Banner are probably hard enough to take them, but the Trelli are much closer and it would be difficult to support a post that far out. If you got blockaded things could get very dicey, especially if the Trelli brought in extra tribes for support.
cus someone else will do this
 
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So the likely best ways to defeat them are to cut off their supply of wealth, and thus make them unable to pay for their mercenary companies, or to hire the better companies at a higher rate, since they shouldn't be particularly loyal to the Trelli.
Not quite. The best way is not to fight them directly at all. Their armies can kill us faster than blocking Wealth can kill them, but if we just give them no reason to attack, they will keep hitting their button until it breaks.
 
Umm, what? No.

China literally just changes the value of their currency relative to the international markets to the point that it goes against established patterns. The dollar follows the natural market forces along with most every other currency.

I don't really get what petroleum has to do with any of this other than being one of those things that will cause a huge market recession when it finally runs out without adequate preparation.

Didn't USA mandate the international oil exchange use US dollar as official currency? That means they are backing their dollars with someone else's oil.

Throw in quantitative easing and nonstop money printing, volia! Instant currency value control, we can call it differently but it's effectively the same.
 
@pblur How we doing today? Anything nifty(besides how fucked we may or may not be with the West T-post) get talked about while I was away in the land of the sleepies?
 
ehh
Again, I want the West trade post to win just to see how everything burns in vain hope the thread learns to not be so overconfident...but it did not work with taxes, it will not work now.
To be honest, I think it's rather overconfident to think that we can just ignore the growing threat to our North, and that we will be fine if we just sit it out and go farm or something.

I would rather start pressuring the Trelli before they get even more boats and even more mercenary companies, because we are a very tasty treat for any raider that thinks they can take us.
 
It's up there mate I you want to refresh your memory, because what you just said sounds like you forgot what it actually said....

Read the rest of his post:
The Red Banner are probably hard enough to take them, but the Trelli are much closer and it would be difficult to support a post that far out. If you got blockaded things could get very dicey, especially if the Trelli brought in extra tribes for support.

For the NTP the problem is both climate and being so far away that if anything goes wrong it will be quite some time before help can arrive.

RB are probably hard enough to take Trelli who do not bring extra tribes. Given that bringing in extra dudes is their schtick, wel...
 
they will keep hitting their button until it breaks.

The button involves attacking our shipping though, not sure why you keep ignoring that.

Rome also didn't 'Break' for many centuries, and Venice was quite successful as well. So don't expect any strategy of waiting them out to have a turnaround we can expect to see within the next ten turns or more.
 
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