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Paths of Civilization

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Actually, thinking about it more, this new festival expansion is probably going to be one of our best ones yet. This king's decision is pretty much guaranteed to become a legend among our people, with people pointing out that even their leaders can make mistakes, but so long as they do their best to correct it rather than hide the damage to protect themselves, the gods will approve.

Long term, this is an amazing legend to have. It's going to encourage our people to admit their mistakes and work to fix it, rather than just pretend it didn't happen.
 
Academia Nut said:
There is the trade of finished goods. Mostly things like decorative pots, luxury clothing, and jewellery. Some finished goods like bronze weapons and tools are possible, but most places prefer to ship ingots between significant powers. The majority of finished tools and weapons are to small groups without the skills and numbers to support their own smiths.
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Hmm, how far away is the concept of bulk armaments trading? And how soon would the concept of ship buying and selling or renting of fleets to develop, it did exist by the late bronze age historically.
 
DocMatoi said:
They existed, and for us, they mattered. To get rid of that is to say they didn't, that they had no effect on the world around them. Which is an out-and-out lie. The Ymaryn are probably going to be the best source of knowledge on the peoples of this part of the world- Millennia from now, people will look to Ymaryn sources when they want to know about what happened in the past. When they look, I want them to be reading something that has not been manipulated for our own benefit.
I do not want to tell a millennia spanning lie.
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They're already gone. Noone IC knows anything about them. They're from too far before writing.

And we don't really get a choice about manipulating the past. It's practically impossible. Inside our own minds we all modify our memories subtly to match archetypes and narratives. Spread that across a thousand years and the truth gets highly obscured.
 
Reader of all said:
There is actually we know that tin is a very important strategic resource we also know what that the trelli are like by trading with them constantly so we can have a rough guess as to what their reaction to such an action will be
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That doesn't follow for me. I know oil is an important resource, but I can't predict if Russia building a base/trade center in Kuwait (with Kuwaiti permission) would provoke a war.
 
McLuvin said:
Y'know something that really annoys me?
The Legacy of the original Lowlanders, they've spread further and influenced the world more than we have. Yes they may not be alive now but it's still a greater legacy.
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This is the same thing as with you and Crow's people, isn't it? And it's just as meaningless.

In the end, who cares? Why give a damn about "legitimacy"? We are the strongest civilization around. Our people are the healthiest, most well-fed, most relatively egalitarian, most relatively tolerant society around. Our people have safe, healthy and happy lives. That is what matters. Not "legitimacy".

Stop thinking in terms of karmic rewards, especially about things that don't even matter.
 
pblur said:
They're already gone. Noone IC knows anything about them. They're from too far before writing.

And we don't really get a choice about manipulating the past. It's practically impossible. Inside our own minds we all modify our memories subtly to match archetypes and narratives. Spread that across a thousand years and the truth gets highly obscured.
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....hmmm. You know? in the future, you know what will probably be remembered most and best preserved?
The Book Of Life. It's in the hands of our healers and shamans, and they're the ones who best preserve knowledge. They probably still know where it came from, and will probably remember the Xoh as givers of profane knowledge, and payers of debts.
 
Susano said:
This is the same thing as with you and Crow's people, isn't it? And it's just as meaningless.

In the end, who cares? Why give a damn about "legitimacy"? We are the strongest civilization around. Our people are the healthiest, most well-fed, most relatively egalitarian, most relatively tolerant society around. Our people have safe, healthy and happy lives. That is what matters. Not "legitimacy".

Stop thinking in terms of karmic rewards, especially about things that don't even matter.
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I thought what mattered was that we were noble paladins, not crass things like strength.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Yeah, no. They have control of their waters and do have ties/raids with Tin Tribes. So even if all their privateers do not notice our ships (and they may well do), one of tribes will soon notice fires of camps and change in wildlife patterns and....basically, I give it at most a couple of years until Trelli notice it, and that is *if* our trade post does not initiate its own contacting with locals to, you know, trade
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The Western Trade post is not however, in their waters, so they'd notice it...once the Trade Post lays down the settlement and opens up for business. At the least that means a settlement + docks + the Red Banner. Given the risks of the region, it is plausible, but not a given for them to build basic walls before docks.

A probing attack can happen the very same turn it's built, but the Red Banner would be there.
As such a 'real' attack can be expected some time the turn after. The Trelli need to pull back their mercenaries deployed to slave raiding and engaged in the Saffron island wars(which I may note, will piss off the Saffron islanders if their hired mercs just left suddenly without finishing the turn or war).

The challenge from there is basically beefing up our naval power and transferring aid to the Trade post while outlasting the Trelli piggybank. Fortunately, Greenshore is likely to be taking More Boats aggressively at this point to catch up.
maximillian said:
@veekie, wouldn't you agree though, that since the north yields great benefits after some time, the sooner its there the better? Especially since an inexhaustible supply of varied timber is vital for many things, including dealing with a possible trelli conflict. And furs, herbs and Amber are a plus, along with the possibility of mineral deposits and ivory if we hit the white sea cost later on.
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Yes? But not Now, because as per word of AN, we need:
-At least 1 Mercenary Company stationed there, possibly more.
-Enough Econ invested into the project that they cannot die from the 3 turns of shitty weather roll needed to learn how to survive winters. We know climate can inflict 1-3 Econ damage per turn, and that Trade Posts start with 2+1(initial settlement) Econ.
--Mathematically we need this sequence to ENSURE it survives in the worst case of climate:
---1) Found Trading Post +2 Econ + Main Support Subordinate +2 Econ - 3 Weather damage = 1 Econ. Trade Post takes Main New Settlement and Main Expand Economy(which may fail!), taking them to 6 Econ
---2) Main Support Subordiinate +2 Econ - 3 Weather damage = 5 Econ. Trade post probably wants to put up walls and spend some Econ here, so lets call it an expense of 2, taking them to 3 Econ
---3) Main Support Subordinate +2 Econ - 3 Weather damage = 2 Econ. Trade post has survived the weather crisis and figured out what to do about it. Probably will keep living from here.
 
pblur said:
I thought what mattered was that we were noble paladins, not crass things like strength.
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That's inherently tied to each other. So far, we have cared more about caring for our people (developing our agriculture, developing our distribution system, prompting egalitarian and 'liberal' social values as much as possible, all those megaprojects...) than about bashing other people's heads in and stealing their land. We have been noble paladins exactly by our pursuit of the welfare of the people as opposed to the pursuit of some grand embellished imperial legacy.
 
DragonParadox said:
There is no way for the Ymaryn to know that IC.
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Noting that historically our Trade Chief is not very good at guessing foreigner reactions because we're too different culturally.
Remember our pick for a 'sensible' Thunder Horse chief?
Reader of all said:
There is actually we know that tin is a very important strategic resource we also know what that the trelli are like by trading with them constantly so we can have a rough guess as to what their reaction to such an action will be
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Could be anything from:
-They are blocking us from dominance. Attack now!
-They are increasing the flow of Tin, awesome, but worrying!
-They control the flow of Tin now, the Khemtri will be mad if we go to war with them!
-They are our major source of dyes, wines and the only source of Mercury, our markets will suffer if we go to war with them!
 
pblur said:
That doesn't follow for me. I know oil is an important resource, but I can't predict if Russia building a base/trade center in Kuwait (with Kuwaiti permission) would provoke a war.
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But the diplomat of your country may know and that is what our traders are our diplomats so they should have a good read on how the trelli will react since they have interacted with them for quite some time.
 
@Academia Nut what do the Trelli actually know about us, besides "they have dyes and mercury , and buy silver and tin" ?
 
maximillian said:
The logic is sound, a but there is one problem, the market vacuum would be filled by someone else sooner rather than later, in which case once we are back in the market it would be at a disadvantage.
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Yes, that is a drawback but our trades are large enough to absorb some of the difference. Mercury and other unique items help.
 
veekie said:
The Western Trade post is not however, in their waters, so they'd notice it...once the Trade Post lays down the settlement and opens up for business. At the least that means a settlement + docks + the Red Banner. Given the risks of the region, it is plausible, but not a given for them to build basic walls before docks.

A probing attack can happen the very same turn it's built, but the Red Banner would be there.
As such a 'real' attack can be expected some time the turn after. The Trelli need to pull back their mercenaries deployed to slave raiding and engaged in the Saffron island wars(which I may note, will piss off the Saffron islanders if their hired mercs just left suddenly without finishing the turn or war).

The challenge from there is basically beefing up our naval power and transferring aid to the Trade post while outlasting the Trelli piggybank. Fortunately, Greenshore is likely to be taking More Boats aggressively at this point to catch up.

Yes? But not Now, because as per word of AN, we need:
-At least 1 Mercenary Company stationed there, possibly more.
-Enough Econ invested into the project that they cannot die from the 3 turns of shitty weather roll needed to learn how to survive winters. We know climate can inflict 1-3 Econ damage per turn, and that Trade Posts start with 2+1(initial settlement) Econ.
--Mathematically we need this sequence to ENSURE it survives in the worst case of climate:
---1) Found Trading Post +2 Econ + Main Support Subordinate +2 Econ - 3 Weather damage = 1 Econ. Trade Post takes Main New Settlement and Main Expand Economy(which may fail!), taking them to 6 Econ
---2) Main Support Subordiinate +2 Econ - 3 Weather damage = 5 Econ. Trade post probably wants to put up walls and spend some Econ here, so lets call it an expense of 2, taking them to 3 Econ
---3) Main Support Subordinate +2 Econ - 3 Weather damage = 2 Econ. Trade post has survived the weather crisis and figured out what to do about it. Probably will keep living from here.
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Ah it always comes down to math doesn't it. Once tis was narrative that ruled the earth. With grace and awe did it reign; its mischievous nature shown in its twists and cliffs, the purity of its soul shining through the poems of love and lament.

And yet it was not to last. For the algebra disdained the narrative, and plotted its demise. And on one fell day it sent two assassins most decrepit and foul : Addition and Subtraction.

As the distracted narrative contemplated proud speeches and glorious last stands, the assassins hand struck with the strength of mathematics.

The narrative with all its flair and elegance, was torn asunder and reduced to its Base numerals.

And so ended the tale of narrative, and the era of calculations was begun.













Removed for ruining the narrative.
 
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