Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
ThrawnCA said:
@Susano So we're clear, is the point of your statements about the priests that you want to add the "crack down" action?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, that wouldn't help. As AN has said, "crackdown" would be in the Lowlands, while the debate would be at home. That's independent of one another. I'm entertaining the thought of voting for the "stamp down" choice.

pblur said:
This was if we debated in [RA] and cracked down in [Low]
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Indeed. Which seems to indicate the debate is held back at home. That it is about our own society.
 
Susano said:
And yet they already do have converts in the RB. That is what the debate is all about, in fact.

From the update:


Also, once again, direct word of god:


(if we were to use the crackdown option)

Did you miss my last reply to you? In any case, this is about our own society!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I somehow missed that... It now makes a lot more sense.

It's not that the poor, half starving minors are able to affect our values. It's a move by the martial classes against the Ymaryn priests and indirectly the bureaucratic elite. Which means using the warriors to kill the lowlander priests just got even less appealing.
 
ThrawnCA said:
Hmm. I won't join you there. "Irrationally-held truths may be more dangerous than reasoned errors" and all that. I'd rather lose the debate and shift religious values than stifle it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The thing is, the draw of the Lowland Religion is exactly the very dogmatism you want to prevent here, so our values may shift towards that.

Of course, the whole thing is a bit of a catch-22.

Lose the debate, we may shift to dogmatism.
Stamp down the debate... we've entered dogmatism by ourselves.

Hrm. But at least in the latter case, we're preserving our other cultural values.

DragonParadox said:
I somehow missed that... It now makes a lot more sense.

It's not that the poor, half starving minors are able to affect our values. It's a move by the martial classes against the Ymaryn priests and indirectly the bureaucratic elite. Which means using the warriors to kill the lowlander priests just got even less appealing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I admit, I hadn't considered it in that way. Yes, that makes sense. Hrm. It really would help to keep the RB away from the Lowland for the time being...
 
If we are planning for lots of war we should ease the path for taking up the new beliefs.
That style seems to have great short term benefits but difficult to hold onto for the long term.

If we want to keep our current tech up our current religion would probably be the best with our seeking out the magic the gods play with.

Does this seem to be correct?
 
BTW, I'm curious about something? How much in-game time has passed since our people first settled here? 1000 years?
 
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
 
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)

[X] [Low] Crack down on their priests (-1 Stability, potential war with vassal, potential +1 Religious authority)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)

[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley

[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival

[X] [City] No

[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
 
gutza1 said:
BTW, I'm curious about something? How much in-game time has passed since our people first settled here? 1000 years?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, it's been 54 turns since we started taking turns. So that's a minimum of 1080 years. But we were told that our turns early on were often several generations apart, so that's definitely lowball.
 
ctulhuslp said:
But why?
Why do you people think that we can do a genocide and fuckton of war and preserve value of "Do not be an asshole" without workin for it?
Do you really think AN will let us have our cake and eat it like this?

Reasoning of "risk breaking our civ" does not even work against -1.5 option.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If I'm not mistaken, we've lost one of our values in this quest all of ONCE. And it was from us doing something like a double main in opposition to said value.

Is taking less refugees less advantages to CA? Yes. Is it going to lose use the value? No.


ctulhuslp said:
Sooooo...What is the reasoning behind minimal refugee vote besides people not giving a fuck about CA?

Like, at least -1.5 has no chance to kill us, so I, again, have no idea why would people vote so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because every extra level of refugees effectively costs us a secondary action. Getting back a stability costs a main, but the econ gains only come to a bit over a secondary.
 
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
 
tally
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 7, 2017 at 10:15 AM, finished with 69760 posts and 68 votes.
Click to expand...
 
Godwinson said:
Except that losing the debate could well see Love of Wisdom be lost along with it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The scariest thing we could do with Love of Wisdom is deny it by our actions. If we stomp out unpleasant inputs, we don't love wisdom. We love confirmation bias.

And that's not a trait any of us want to have.
 
So, since it seems clear we're going in on the debates, what do you guys think the possible results and our chances are?
So far I've got:
Hard loss: -2 RA, Xoh priests dominate. The Xoh religion gains a foothold in our very capital. Likelihood: highly unlikely, as our shamans can prove they know their shit.
Soft Loss: -1 RA, Xoh priests tough out getting proven wrong. "I don't care what you say, I'mma sacrifice doods no matter what." Likelihood: moderate (these guys are stubborn)
Tie: Null RA, Xoh priests insist on the gaps. Likelihood: mod-high (blind faith is a hell of a drug)
Soft Win: +1 RA, Xoh priests convinced that everything can be figured out. Likelihood: high (Tangible benefits to Crowism, see below)
Hard Win: +2 RA, Xoh priests astounded by what our gods have helped us learn and accomplish. Likelihood: moderate (library of knowledge, great temple, mysticism overflow, number of megaprojects built)

Anyone else got any suggestions?
 
Last edited:
DocMatoi said:
Hard loss: -2 RA, Xoh priests dominate. human sacrifice tiem. Likelihood: highly unlikely, as our shamans can prove they know their shit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think this is actually on the table; it goes against way too many of our values. We might go hard on sacrifice though.
 
Kiba said:
Love of Wisdom is about challenging beliefs and making people justify it, no? And the biggest risk we took was to risk the Warding megaproject.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Academia Nut said:
A big part of it was that the local priests from the lowlands had all learned at the feet of the Xohyssiri and simply carried themselves differently and the People didn't quite know how to deal with them. The priests of the People argued and debated and tried to divine the secrets and intentions of the gods through careful study of the world. The priests of the lowlanders simply declared something to be so with such utter faith and conviction that it was hard to argue against them, and their certainty was definitely inspiring. Where the People had definite answers they crushed the foreign priests in debate, frequently leaving them speechless with demonstrations of magic, but the world was so mysterious that they frequently had to give ground in the face of unyielding belief.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
The most likely Spiritual Value to lose in this event is the one that is most at odds with the Lowlander religions, and that's Love of Wisdom.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top