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Paths of Civilization

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FriedIce said:
Frankly guys, the festival can wait.

Lets get ourselves out of the Econ pit first.
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Except we're taking in the Nomads, which is going to cause instability and trigger PS. Pioneering Spirit will convert 1 centralization to 1 Econ but won't remove the strife. The festival will remove the strife and boost our culture, which will make assimilating the Nomads much easier (as well as make it easier to eventually assimilate the ST).
 
...
*glances at Econ score*

Yeah let's fix that

[X] [Main] New Settlement
[X] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
[X] [Secondary] Step Farms
 
A festival at this time can cement our world view.

A great enemy has died and his work fractured.
His children asked for our help, which we agreed if they behave.
The northern settlement have integrated into our civ.
We achieved all these by doing what we always done, being fair to the land and the people around us.
 
[X] If you behave yourselves, you may settle (strong chance of causing strife)
[X][Main] Establish Annual Festival
[X][Secondary] Step-Farms
[X][Secondary] Expand Fishing
 
Mannan said:
For others Econ 0 is enough to survive 2-3 bad harvests for the People. Is it the same for others or is a bad harvest going to be dangerous for them?
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They tend to take major stability hits when they get more than one bad harvest in a row, which if they can't recover will break their society. Social values are shed as no longer being functional, with different groups going in different directions and often preying upon one another in the aftermath.
 
Academia Nut said:
They tend to take major stability hits when they get more than one bad harvest in a row, which if they can't recover will break their society. Social values are shed as no longer being functional, with different groups going in different directions and often preying upon one another in the aftermath.
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Will establishing a new settlement net us 1 Econ, if we factor in PS? I'm not sure if step-farms would also be a factor...
 
McLuvin said:
We can tank it now, then focus on making ourselves once again the biggest economy in the region next turn.
No biggie, we have so many agricultural/economic options it's insane.
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Sivantic said:
Economy isn't just food though, it's trade goods from worked material. Such as that that the Festival would promote.
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Okay, here's the problem. If we lose a point of economy, we activate PS and lose Centralization to bring our economy back up. We might be able to tank that, but it won't be pleasant. But, if the Strife from the Nomads kicks in after that, we end up gaining another point of Economy for a loss of more Centralization. So what's the problem?

Our economy revolves around our Centralization bonus to collective action! That's what let us finish that Megaproject without killing ourselves! That's what allows us to have things like Black Soil production and our Sacred Forest system! Without that, we'll fracture into much less effective subgroups for labor, and that will cripple our economic abilities, because we have built our entire culture around that! Worse, we have no easy way of increasing our Centralization! We can't just plow a field for it like we can our Economy!

Look, I like the Festival as much as the next guy. But for now, we need to focus on our economy.

[X] If you behave yourselves, you may settle (Strong chance of causing strife)

[X][Main] Expand Fishing
[X][Secondary] Step-Farms
[X][Secondary] New Settlement
 
@Academia Nut Where exactly are we putting the Nomad Splinters? Am I right in saying that they would be as close to the plains as possible for their horses?
 
Sweet, so its safe to assume that the settlement and auto expand pastures would give us 2 Economy.

So if we factor PS triggering off the Nomads being taken in, Step-farms, Establish Settlement, Auto expand pastures, and Annual Festival it'll result in:

-1 Centralization
+3 Economy (since the festival would take 1 econ.
 
Hangwind said:
Okay, here's the problem. If we lose a point of economy, we activate PS and lose Centralization to bring our economy back up. We might be able to tank that, but it won't be pleasant. But, if the Strife from the Nomads kicks in after that, we end up gaining another point of Economy for a loss of more Centralization. So what's the problem?

Our economy revolves around our Centralization bonus to collective action! That's what let us finish that Megaproject without killing ourselves! That's what allows us to have things like Black Soil production and our Sacred Forest system! Without that, we'll fracture into much less effective subgroups for labor, and that will cripple our economic abilities, because we have built our entire culture around that! Worse, we have no easy way of increasing our Centralization! We can't just plow a field for it like we can our Economy!

Look, I like the Festival as much as the next guy. But for now, we need to focus on our economy.

[X] If you behave yourselves, you may settle (Strong chance of causing strife)

[X][Main] Expand Fishing
[X][Secondary] Step-Farms
[X][Secondary] New Settlement
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Click to shrink...
Changed my vote
 
hylas240 said:
Sweet, so its safe to assume that the settlement and auto expand pastures would give us 2 Economy.

So if we factor PS triggering off the Nomads being taken in, Step-farms, Establish Settlement, Auto expand pastures, and Annual Festival it'll result in:

-1 Centralization
+3 Economy (since the festival would take 1 econ.
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It's a main action, so it will take at least two. Worse, we don't know what order things will happen in.

Edit: Think of it this way: Centralization is to us what Mysticism is to the ST. It's the one thing that we cannot lose if we don't absolutely have to, because our culture is so heavily specialized towards it.
 
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Hangwind said:
Okay, here's the problem. If we lose a point of economy, we activate PS and lose Centralization to bring our economy back up. We might be able to tank that, but it won't be pleasant. But, if the Strife from the Nomads kicks in after that, we end up gaining another point of Economy for a loss of more Centralization. So what's the problem?

Our economy revolves around our Centralization bonus to collective action! That's what let us finish that Megaproject without killing ourselves! That's what allows us to have things like Black Soil production and our Sacred Forest system! Without that, we'll fracture into much less effective subgroups for labor, and that will cripple our economic abilities, because we have built our entire culture around that! Worse, we have no easy way of increasing our Centralization! We can't just plow a field for it like we can our Economy!

Look, I like the Festival as much as the next guy. But for now, we need to focus on our economy.

[X] If you behave yourselves, you may settle (Strong chance of causing strife)

[X][Main] Expand Fishing
[X][Secondary] Step-Farms
[X][Secondary] New Settlement
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Since taking in the Nomads is the first option, it would be safe to say its going to trigger PS first.
 
Hangwind said:
Okay, here's the problem. If we lose a point of economy, we activate PS and lose Centralization to bring our economy back up. We might be able to tank that, but it won't be pleasant. But, if the Strife from the Nomads kicks in after that, we end up gaining another point of Economy for a loss of more Centralization. So what's the problem?

Our economy revolves around our Centralization bonus to collective action! That's what let us finish that Megaproject without killing ourselves! That's what allows us to have things like Black Soil production and our Sacred Forest system! Without that, we'll fracture into much less effective subgroups for labor, and that will cripple our economic abilities, because we have built our entire culture around that! Worse, we have no easy way of increasing our Centralization! We can't just plow a field for it like we can our Economy!

Look, I like the Festival as much as the next guy. But for now, we need to focus on our economy.

[X] If you behave yourselves, you may settle (Strong chance of causing strife)

[X][Main] Expand Fishing
[X][Secondary] Step-Farms
[X][Secondary] New Settlement
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Good points all. I'm flip flopping again.

[X] If you behave yourselves, you may settle (Strong chance of causing strife)

[X][Main] Expand Fishing
[X][Secondary] Step-Farms
[X][Secondary] New Settlement
 
hylas240 said:
Gonna need a quote on the festival being 2 econ. There's no way it would be that high.

Edit: again, sorry for the double post :confused:
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It's a Main Action that explicitly costs Economy for Art and Diplomacy(maybe on the Diplomacy). And Main actions are the same as two minor actions. We can literally trade two secondary actions for one main one.
 
[X] If you behave yourselves, you may settle (strong chance of causing strife)
[X][Main] Establish Annual Festival
[X][Secondary] New Settlement
[X][Secondary] Expand Pasture

So uh...question:
Academia Nut said:
He was offering fealty to the High Chief in exchange for protection, which practically meant that he and his people would have to be resettled somewhere. There was probably enough land that could be safely turned over to pasture that it could be done... but the People, especially the People who had once been the primary target of the northern raiders, wouldn't like it.
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Taking them in requires building Pastures if we want to keep their animals. Why aren't we building it?
Pastures increase food availability and thus Economy, so it serves the same role as Fishing and Step Farms, which there's no special demand for.
Festival counteracts the Strife hit, which helps with the assimilation.

I'm pretty sure @Academia Nut isn't giving us a free build action here.
So why is nobody doing it?
 
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