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Paths of Civilization

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McLuvin said:
Ymaryn Guilds seem to be quite different. Firstly their numbers are limited and kept not too low or too high, monopolies are retained but the monopolies are split apart into subcategories. This ensures that innovation is not stifled and competition is actually encouraged as those who want to create their own Guild have to create technological advancements and spread it to a large enough scale to create Guilds, or they have to be impressive or innovative enough to gain the support of their colleagues for later in life. Overall it's a much less oppressive system that is much more open to intelligent commoners and is less hereditary than most other political systems in Ymar.

Second, the Guilds don't actually have anything special for their members, all non-half exile Ymaryn are involved in choosing their local Chiefs, in the cities we just couldn't sustain the Clan/Family model and utilised Guilds instead of familial relations to help elect Chiefs to petition the King and help with internal disputes and organising Guild/Clans. Do they have more power via having easier and more direct access to the King and more influence over the major areas of our cities? Yes. But they aren't the major super exclusive citizen based Guilds of Germany.

Overall we cannot and should not compare Ymaryn Guilds to Real Life Guilds, we have a radically different culture and political system to anyone in Real Life and it's near impossible and not to mention inaccurate to make comparisons.
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This is pretty bullshit. Here's WoG on our situation originally.

Academia Nut said:
It's managers getting the job of manager by tradition, acclaim of peers, and appointment by the managers, who then vote on the director who votes on the mayor who votes on the governor who votes on the king.
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A LONG ways from the universal franshise idea you had. Explicitly de facto hereditary.
 
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McLuvin said:
Overall we cannot and should not compare Ymaryn Guilds to Real Life Guilds, we have a radically different culture and political system to anyone in Real Life and it's near impossible and not to mention inaccurate to make comparisons.
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Maybe so, but all possible changes you mention make them look even more desirable as potential power centres.

pblur said:
A LONG ways from the universal franshise idea you had.
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Even then, pretty good, especially compared to the other potential power centres.
 
pblur said:
That's... what guilds ARE. And no, 5% of our population in guilds is probably about right. Farming is still the vast majority of our labor force, and noone ever made a farmers guild that I'm aware of. Not enough concentrated power for people to want to.
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ThrawnCA said:
I'm dubious that it would even be legal.
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The closest think i can think of is that I could see there being a "Gardner Guild", for the people managing the parks and orchards in the city, since thats a prestigious job, as well as a localized, low-numbers job that possibly has its own semi-unique techniques and strategies given the different growing situation and goals for vanity/political meal/etc orchards vs for-calorie orchards?

pblur said:
The price of salt won't crash if we build 10 salterns. It's a VERY supply-insensitive market.
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Yeah, i'm thinking "Encircle the Not!Black Sea and put level 3 salterns on every possible spot on its coast" is the kind of bullshit you'd need to even start saturating the salt market, especially since being able to directly manage that much land and have the free resources and actions to spend on all those saltern expansions sounds like the kind of "you've already won" situation AN said would be necessary to saturate the market.
 
McLuvin said:
Then why was there so much bullshit about the creation of Chiefs in the cities? Seriously if it's so elitist then why was it so hard to organise the clan and the selection of Chiefs?
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Because there's 100000+ people in valleyhome. The top 10% is 10,000. Without literacy, trying to organize on that scale is hard.
 
pblur said:
Because there's 100000+ people in valleyhome. The top 10% is 10,000. Without literacy, trying to organize on that scale is hard.
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We have a literacy rate of 9% partial literacy and 1% full literacy, so that makes less sense than it would in other cultures, especially as the 10% who vote would most likely be the 10% with literacy due to their elitism
 
McLuvin said:
We have a literacy rate of 9% partial literacy and 1% full literacy, so that makes less sense than it would in other cultures, especially as the 10% who vote would most likely be the 10% with literacy due to their elitism
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Not really. A low ranking clerk has full literacy. A high ranking blacksmith or miner is likely to have none.
 
What renders comparisons to real life moot in my opinion, is the fact we haven't invented charters, citizenship, private property, rights and privileges, courts of law, grants and written contracts yet.
The ymiri are a few thousand years too early for comparison to the medieval and renaissance cities.
 
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pblur said:
Not really. A low ranking clerk has full literacy. A high ranking blacksmith or miner is likely to have none.
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Hold on, if a Miner or Blacksmith has the vote, how can the elite have vote monopoly when Guilds are meant to be run a lot like the clans except for the professional facet being the focus instead of the familial? If that Miner has the vote then how come the farmer hasn't? I'm not sure wether it's a flawed plot line or something but it just doesn't make sense that the elite have vote monopoly yet the common uneducated non literate members of society also have enough of the vote to cause large problems
 
McLuvin said:
Hold on, if a Miner or Blacksmith has the vote, how can the elite have vote monopoly when Guilds are meant to be run a lot like the clans except for the professional facet being the focus instead of the familial? If that Miner has the vote then how come the farmer hasn't? I'm not sure wether it's a flawed plot line or something but it just doesn't make sense that the elite have vote monopoly yet the common uneducated non literate members of society also have enough of the vote to cause large problems
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The manager's run the show. The average miner doesn't have a vote in the miner's guild. The managers do.

Farmers don't really have managers, and tend to get left out of all non-rural power structures.
 
pblur said:
The manager's run the show. The average miner doesn't have a vote in the miner's guild. The managers do.

Farmers don't really have managers, and tend to get left out of all non-rural power structures.
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Thanks for clearing that up (although I still don't see how managers raised to be part of our unlanded elite managerial class can have non literacy seen as acceptable or how the Guilds create more opportunities for non-elites, as AN claimed, to rise up in the ranks)
 
McLuvin said:
Thanks for clearing that up (although I still don't see how managers raised to be part of our unlanded elite managerial class can have non literacy seen as acceptable or how the Guilds create more opportunities for non-elites, as AN claimed, to rise up in the ranks)
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Manager pick other managers. In our oligarchical society, a lot of that's going to be done by nepotism (that's not even seen as corruption at this point, unless those elevated are incompetent.) On the other hand, if there's a clear genius in the lower ranks he's likely to be elevated if the managers aren't TOO corrupt.
 
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*sees AN make a post to poke the dragons nest*

*sees dragon squeal like a stuck pig*


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah. I'm gonna have to pull out my burner vents and bask in the salt. >.>
Maybe even call out a few people. Yippee.


Oh if any new folks in the thread have goals they want in the long term here is a PoC Thread Long Term Goals Post.
If you want to be attached to a goal already on there then feel free to hit me up in the thread and I will add your name.
This is all an attempt to organize some of the stuff we want.


Malevolo said:
@BungieONI

BRING THE HAPCON!!!
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Here!
 
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pblur said:
Of course. They ride with the might and glory of feudalism. How could they lose?
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"Ahh Wise Wolf we must travel to the Land of the Salt Sea. I must treat with the spirits of the space there and reroute the salt drops into Spoopy Castle's Reactor Core."

*maniacal look!*

"WE'RE GONNA GET A MOVING CASTLE UP IN THIS BITCH!"


"MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!"
 
BungieONI said:
"Ahh Wise Wolf we must travel to the Land of the Salt Sea. I must treat with the spirits of the space there and reroute the salt drops into Spoopy Castle's Reactor Core."

*maniacal look!*

"WE'RE GONNA GET A MOVING CASTLE UP IN THIS BITCH!"


"MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!"
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"Let me grab my grain..."

*Surveys defenses carefully*

"These should hold and keep the salt-poisoned out. Let's GOOOOOOOOOOO!"
 
pblur said:
"Let me grab my grain..."

*Surveys defenses carefully*

"These should hold and keep the salt-poisoned out. Let's GOOOOOOOOOOO!"
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"Let me just press this other Button."

*presses*

THRONE. ONLINE.

*throne sprouts all the water sprayers and salt absorbers and other delightful anti-salt devices*

*also spikes, lots and lots of spikes"

"WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
 
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