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Paths of Civilization

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Sivantic said:
At the same time though, what if we do wait for the war carts and let the Patrikwos die of old age first? He's already rather old and then they won't have their hero unit anymore.
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Where are you getting he's old from? He's got grandkids yeah, and he's starting to get silver, but that's still far and away from keeling over dead. He's probably in his early to mid fourties, which combined with his lifestyle means he's got another 20 natural years at least. Waiting him out isn't going to do much this war.
 
War carts are the wrong way to go. These are nomads. They live this lifestyle from birth and have no fixed locations to tie them down. Like it or not, we're not going to win this war with their methods on their territory.

-and seriously, what do so many people have against the Spirit Talkers? They seem like a match made in heaven.



hylas240 said:
The leader doesn't hate us, but the raiders as a group do, since we've prevented them from raiding us for so long.
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That's not hatred; that's irritation. They don't have some terrible blood vendetta driving them to destroy us at any cost. They attack because the attacks are profitable and open the opportunity of further profits if we are forced out. Take those profits away and they'll grumble in disappointment before finding somebody more profitable to raid.
 
Thanks! I'm going to go with turtling then.
[X] Martial
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Increase fortification around endangered settlements (Warning: Costs Econ at Econ 0)
[X] Stay home for the time being
I also don't want others knocking at our door to share our land with.

NotAlwaysFanfic said:
Where are you getting he's old from? He's got grandkids yeah, and he's starting to get silver, but that's still far and away from keeling over dead. He's probably in his early to mid fourties, which combined with his lifestyle means he's got another 20 natural years at least. Waiting him out isn't going to do much this war.
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We're in the ancient era, and he has likely suffered some wounds. That's really close to being dead.
 
Lailoken said:
War carts are the wrong way to go. These are nomads. They live this lifestyle from birth and have no fixed locations to tie them down. Like it or not, we're not going to win this war with their methods on their territory.

-and seriously, what do so many people have against the Spirit Talkers? They seem like a match made in heaven.





That's not hatred; that's irritation. They don't have some terrible blood vendetta driving them to destroy us at any cost. They attack because the attacks are profitable and open the opportunity of further profits if we are forced out. Take those profits away and they'll grumble in disappointment before finding somebody more profitable to raid.
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Except we were offering those profits as trading partners, and they declared war on us anyways. If they just wanted our wealth and didn't also dislike us, they would've just established trading agreements with us.
 
hylas240 said:
Except we were offering those profits as trading partners, and they declared war on us anyways. If they just wanted our wealth and didn't also dislike us, they would've just established trading agreements with us.
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No, they thought "Or I could just take the wealth and earn glory from you." Also, you're starting to argue retroactively here. You said they hate us because we stopped them from easily raiding us and now you are implying they hated us before that even.

They don't hate us. They're just land pirates. Really annoying land pirates.
 
We really should use our advantages to fight against enemy advantages.
The main advantages are that we are have much more population and production power with stable governance.
Therefore a war of attrition will bleed out the nomads a lot sooner then us.
And having more wagons will migrated our slow army problem using our advantages.
 
hylas240 said:
Except we were offering those profits as trading partners, and they declared war on us anyways. If they just wanted our wealth and didn't also dislike us, they would've just established trading agreements with us.
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-or, they could just take the wealth, while winning glory, intimidating other potential resistors, and establishing new tributaries. A bandit doesn't have to hate you personally to decide that he wants your horse and doesn't want to pay for it.
 
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[X] Spiritual
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Wait for more war carts to be constructed and mass them for use against the nomads
[X] Stay home for the time being

I choose spiritual because from what we have seen our civilization is severely lagging behind in the abstract concepts department, festivals because our citizens need to have some more fun and relaxation, war cart mass attack because that's the only way I see us winning against the nomad hero, and stay at home because this war is the way we are going to build a reputation with everyone else and asking for help makes us look weak.
 
bluefur87 said:
No, they thought "Or I could just take the wealth and earn glory from you." Also, you're starting to argue retroactively here. You said they hate us because we stopped them from easily raiding us and now you are implying they hated us before that even.

They don't hate us. They're just land pirates. Really annoying land pirates.
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I'm not implying that they hated us before we our hero started the blood feud? It was specifically mentioned that by the time of our trade offer, the Northerners hated us because we've stymied their attempts at raiding us (which was started from the blood feud).

Why would the brilliant leader decide to declare war on us, even though he knew our terrain was very hard for his military to fight in?
 
Yah this is a lot of discussion so i will just vote and if need be add in my two cents

[X] Martial
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Wait for more war carts to be constructed and mass them for use against the nomads
[X] Send a diplomatic expedition Into the Wild in the hopes of finding someone who can help
 
Lailoken said:
War carts are the wrong way to go. These are nomads. They live this lifestyle from birth and have no fixed locations to tie them down. Like it or not, we're not going to win this war with their methods on their territory.
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Just because they have no fixed locations to tie them down doesn't mean they have no soft areas we're capable of hitting, as the GM said. Their methods for defensive warfare rely on swarming their enemies. We need to go on the offensive in order to get vengeance and that requires a way to counter their swarm tactics.

With our bonuses to collective action, our vengeance-driven ferocity, and our superior technology, there's a good chance we'll win such a battle (and as zamin noted, we win most of the time when we manage to catch them). If they refuse a pitched battle anyway or can't quickly enough gather a sufficient amount of people to defeat us, we'll have freedom to raid their camps.
 
So my two scents on the bonus to either Martial, spiritual, social is as follows.

Martial: given this is from choosing to have a quick efficent disposal of prisoners and our excuse about spiritual purity. This option might lead to our warriors becoming more spiritual with self imposed rules and sort of "code" to keep their spirits pure. This might be a good and bad thing. I don't know what the effects of this would be besides encouraging codes. This could also result in rules of war in general so yeah.

Spiritual: This is pretty easy to see what this might be thanks to it outright stating that one of the reasons given was spiritual purity. This would probably lead to something along the lines of Buddhism and searching for spiritual "purity". This would probably lead to more discussion of faith, philosophy and the spirit in general.

Social: This right here is interesting and once again easeir to see what this will entail. Given in the update there was discussion on what crime constitutes what. This might lead into setting up a primitive legal system with Laws, Written Laws to keep track of them. Not only would this boost writing as people try to describe laws into stone to record them but it'd also work further into formalizing rule of law.

So basically it would be.
Martial= Formation of a warrior culture, with codes and rules, Massive bonus to martial matters, Might lead to a more warrior leaning people.
Spiritual=People striving to maintain spiritual purity leading to greater discussion of philosophy and matters of the spirit, and practice of religious rituals(such as potentially washing Hands!!!) Massive boost to Spiritual matters.
Social=Potential formation of laws as people begin trying to formalize punishments and what crime deserves what punishment, Boosts to social matters as Prope can now discuss rules that are written in clay. Written system advanced to account and describe the laws put in place. Potential massive Boost in Stability.

All of these options are all equally good but personally I prefer Social>Spiritual>Martial. If anyone sees any flaws in my logic please point it out to me.
 
[X] Martial
[X] Establish Annual Festival
[X] Wait for more war carts to be constructed and mass them for use against the nomads
[X] Send a diplomatic expedition into the Wild in the hopes of finding someone who can help
 
Ghostdevil said:
No, it does not

If it activates WHENEVER it goes down, then timing doesn't matter. BUT IT DOES
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JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ARE YOU TRYING TO FUCKING TROLL ME?!
In times of strife, it is best to set out into new territory rather than draw a line in the sand, which also benefits setting out into new territory when there isn't strife.
Pros: Whenever stability drops, Econ increases as the political losers find something else to do with their time. New ideas introduced by foreigners are also more quickly adopted, and new settlements are established more quickly.
Cons: Whenever stability drops, also lose Centralization as pioneers break away from central authority figures
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The timing doesn't fucking matter! It's on page fucking one. You mean to tell me you two sat here and argued with me without checking the first page?!
 
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