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Paths of Civilization

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McLuvin said:
Leaving the Highlanders to fight a two front war against a massive Baby Killer empire and a Heroic Martial faction is riskier in the long term, take a risk now or watch the Xoh coke for our blood later?
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The Xohyssiri will be far more pissed at us for bringing down the nomads again. They'll be joined by the Thunder Speakers and the Thunder Horse who would also have to deal with nomad bullshit. The Highlands Kingdom would also dislike us because the nomads will attack them too. Driving the nomads into the lowlands will just have every lowlands faction hating us. That is not healthy for us.

And of course that's if we succeed. If we fail, the nomads will do bad things to us themselves. Failure is more likely without mass recruitment.

It's a lose-lose option.
 
McLuvin said:
That isn't reliable enough to save the Highlanders, who need help pronto with a two front war coming up in the next turn probably.

East Horde got wrecked, those not driven off have come in as refugees, it's why we took a stability hit
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He means the eastern half of the current hostile nomad horde.

The HK seem fine to me. It was basically saying they're shitty internally atm but are good at war, though admittedly sometime's AN can be unclear.

I'd argue, also, that if we failed and the HK's more or less only ally was shaken they'd be more damaged than they currently are. Have the nomads attack the TS then let's do it ourselves. Less risk of an incursion.
 
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Andres110 said:
The Xohyssiri will be far more pissed at us for bringing down the nomads again. They'll be joined by the Thunder Speakers and the Thunder Horse who would also have to deal with nomad bullshit. The Highlands Kingdom would also dislike us because the nomads will attack them too. Driving the nomads into the lowlands will just have every lowlands faction hating us. That is not healthy for us.

And of course that's if we succeed. If we fail, the nomads will do bad things to us themselves. Failure is more likely without mass recruitment.

It's a lose-lose option.
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Well, unlike last time they won't have come through our territory willingly. We'll just have driven them away from us to the east which just HAPPENS to be the direction of the lowlands.
 
McLuvin said:
That isn't reliable enough to save the Highlanders, who need help pronto with a two front war coming up in the next turn probably.

East Horde got wrecked, those not driven off have come in as refugees, it's why we took a stability hit
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Neit. That was our Eastern Nomad buddies. I was speaking of the East Horde Lead by Nomad Dad 2 which did the wrecking. They are still very much there.
 
pblur said:
Well, unlike last time they won't have come through our territory willingly. We'll just have driven them away from us to the east which just HAPPENS to be the direction of the lowlands.
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Yes, and I'm sure the lowlanders will appreciate that nuance so much that they wouldn't dream of holding a grudge against us for that. They wouldn't be so petty. :rolleyes:
 
Andres110 said:
The Xohyssiri will be far more pissed at us for bringing down the nomads again. They'll be joined by the Thunder Speakers and the Thunder Horse who would also have to deal with nomad bullshit. The Highlands Kingdom would also dislike us because the nomads will attack them too. Driving the nomads into the lowlands will just have every lowlands faction hating us. That is not healthy for us.

And of course that's if we succeed. If we fail, the nomads will do bad things to us themselves. Failure is more likely without mass recruitment.

It's a lose-lose option.
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The Nomads would likely carve apart a new country for themselves in the Thunder Speakers territory, with most of their focus being on the Highlanders for generations a surprise Nomad Horde wouldn't be broken as easily as you think, however the Xoh are large enough to stop them nearing their inner territory, thus making an attack on the Highlanders near impossible, finally we would force them to the Lowlands, but no one would be able to say we did it purposely, as we would have just used bait and attacks from the west to lure them to the south east. Plausible deniability
 
McLuvin said:
East Horde got wrecked, those not driven off have come in as refugees, it's why we took a stability hit
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no no, that was our trader buddies under paltrulvin. There are two WAAGH hordes- a father and son. one in the east, one in the west.
 
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@McLuvin if the HK starts falling then we move in on their hill settlements as soon as possible. Might as well take out all the hill civs near us before we face off the Xoh empire.
 
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
 
BungieONI said:
Neit. That was our Eastern Nomad buddies. I was speaking of the East Horde Lead by Nomad Dad 2 which did the wrecking. They are still very much there.
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But they aren't in the Lowlands
Umi-san said:
He means the eastern half of the current hostile nomad horde.

The HK seem fine to me. It was basically saying they're shitty internally atm but are good at war, though admittedly sometime's AN can be unclear.

I'd argue, also, that if we failed and the HK's more or less only ally was shaken they'd be more damaged than they currently are. Have the nomads attack the TS then let's do it ourselves. Less risk of an incursion.
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the update mentioned them as stalemating the Xoh, but being forced out the Hath and facing the threat of a reunified Hath under a Heroic Martial King, they are going to lose that fight
 
What would a not!Atlantis civ be like in this game? Unatural nat 100s? Unlimited resources? Atom bombs?
 
pblur said:
Well, unlike last time they won't have come through our territory willingly. We'll just have driven them away from us to the east which just HAPPENS to be the direction of the lowlands.
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I mean, if we manage to successfully drive them away from the metal workers, and they already have people poking around the Thunder Horse area, isn't the next logical step to push in on the weakest target and discover what they hold?

Unless Thunder Horse have been sporting notably strong defenses without us knowing, merely holding our land and the metal worker's land would likely cause them to go into the lowlands anyways.
 
McLuvin said:
with most of their focus being on the Highlanders for generations a surprise Nomad Horde wouldn't be broken as easily as you think
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in which case an attack from the north would do a great deal of damage and force them to fortify. So even the push that will already be occurring will be damaging enough.

McLuvin said:
the update mentioned them as stalemating the Xoh, but being forced out the Hath and facing the threat of a reunified Hath under a Heroic Martial King, they are going to lose that fight
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Well, no, as far as I can tell they're not being forced out, the HT cities are just crumbling even as the new Heroic King tries to reunite the country. The HK will be attacked afterward, though.

Marlin said:
What would a not!Atlantis civ be like in this game? Unatural nat 100s? Unlimited resources? Atom bombs?
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Do you mean the magical, unlikely atlantis civ or the realistic version?

McLuvin said:
We'd get wrecked, the Highlander remnants would hold a grudge and we are too unstable and weak in stats to hold anything at the moment
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Hold a grudge because????

If we're too unstable and weak in stats to hold anything how can you say that trying to do something that our hero considers unlikely even with max martial is possible?
 
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[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Library] Free Study Forests (Guaranteed breakthrough)
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
 
bluefur87 said:
I mean, if we manage to successfully drive them away from the metal workers, and they already have people poking around the Thunder Horse area, isn't the next logical step to push in on the weakest target and discover what they hold?

Unless Thunder Horse have been sporting notably strong defenses without us knowing, merely holding our land and the metal worker's land would likely cause them to go into the lowlands anyways.
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McLuvin said:
But they aren't in the Lowlands

the update mentioned them as stalemating the Xoh, but being forced out the Hath and facing the threat of a reunified Hath under a Heroic Martial King, they are going to lose that fight
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What we are trying to say McLuvin is that by attacking the TS the East Horde will distract the Xoh like you want, but to a lesser degree. The TS will be forced to dedicate warriors to fighting the Nomads off, which is 1/3 of the Xoh not attacking the HK anymore. More if it goes badly for the TS, which it very strongly might because we have been eating all of the Nomad hits for centuries and I doubt they are much fortified.

Honestly if the HK are having a bad internal situation and are still stalemating the Xoh then even this is enough breathing room for them. We have to make sure our own house is in order too, otherwise what help can we actually give them?
 
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Umi-san said:
Hold a grudge because
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We are some of their father Territories Settlements, these Lowlanders don't like to share
Umi-san said:
If we're too unstable and weak in stats to hold anything how can you say that trying to do something that our hero considers unlikely even with max martial is possible
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because we'd basically have to funnel huge amounts of Martial to secure our new territory from the Hath and Xoh and we'd have to use up a lot of stability we don't have at the moment
Umi-san said:
Well, no, as far as I can tell they're not being forced out, the HT cities are just crumbling even as the new Heroic King tries to reunite the country
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that's bad, they're cities are falling whilst even their Heroic Martial character can't save them
Umi-san said:
even the push that will already be occurring
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There's no Nomad attack on the Xoh, we'd have to lure them to the south east to create an attack, or to do any damage.
 
BungieONI said:
What we are trying to say McLuvin is that by attacking the TS the East Horde will distract the Xoh like you want, but to a lesser degree. The TS will be forced to dedicate warriors to fighting the Nomads off, which is 1/3 of the Xoh not attacking the HK anymore. More if it goes badly for the TS, which it very strongly might because we have been eating all of the Nomad hits for centuries and I doubt they are much fortified.

Honestly if the HK are having a bad internal situation and are still stalemating the Xoh then even this is enough breathing room for them. We have to make sure our own house is in order too, otherwise what help can we actually give them?
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How is that a bad thing?
Giving the Highlanders breathing room is a good thing. Hell it gives us breathing room and let's us get our shit in order too, there is no downside to a Nomad attack on the Xoh
 
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McLuvin said:
We are some of their father Territories Settlements, these Lowlanders don't like to share

because we'd basically have to funnel huge amounts of Martial to secure our new territory from the Hath and Xoh and we'd have to use up a lot of stability we don't have at the moment

that's bad, they're cities are falling whilst even their Heroic Martial character can't save them

There's no Nomad attack on the Xoh, we'd have to lure them to the south east to create an attack, or to do any damage.
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If we're diplomancing them to come join us, they can't complain.

Why would we have to use up a lot of stability? To assimilate the place, you mean? We'll lose as much or more stability and martial in the highly likely chance that we fail. Just think about what we're trying to do: We're trying to attack nomads from the back so that they'll forced to go into and through the TS. Like, seriously, wtf?? These are nomads. If you want them to attack the TS, don't add extra pressure. Let them see that the TS are an easy target and we + the MW are hard ones.

Yes, the Hathatyn's cities are failing while their Heroic Martial character can't save them. Largely because the Hathatyn have a disordered, competitive/dominant city government type.

The Xohyssiri Empire also contains the TS.
 
McLuvin said:
There's no Nomad attack on the Xoh, we'd have to lure them to the south east to create an attack, or to do any damage.
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No. This is wrong. Straight up.

Here it is in the update.

Academia Nut said:
preferring to hit softer targets like the disorganized Metal Workers and the distracted Thunder Speakers, one section lead by the father, another by the son, both of whom had proven themselves brilliant leaders capable of smashing everything that they came into contact with.
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The Xoh are being attacked because TS = part of Xoh empire.


McLuvin said:
How is that a bad thing?
Giving the Highlanders breathing room is a good thing. Hell it gives us breathing room and let's us get our shit in order too, there is no downside to a Nomad attack on the Xoh
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Huh? *facepalm* I do not understand what you are getting at.

I agree it's a good thing. But we don't need to actively do anything like divert the Nomads to give them(the HK) breathing room. The East Horde will attack the TS, hurting them, and thus giving the HK breathing room. Just less, but the HK don't need a lot to get on their feet and we have other concerns like making sure we can beat a part of the horde and don't over extend tactically.
 
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