Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
He seems fine with the current bandwagon; upset with the past one.
Except for the pilgrimage thing... which I'm considering changing because of.
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
Vote change, because, being the secretive elves we are and should be feels better than being a religous center. Also, Tech advantage should be conserved, not paraded.
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
Vote change, because, being the secretive elves we are and should be feels better than being a religous center. Also, Tech advantage should be conserved, not paraded.
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
I'm in favour of Maining More Blackbirds ASAP we really need more anti-corruption/a police force, and we aren't in partially red martial anymore so no problems there.
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
I'm in favour of Maining More Blackbirds ASAP we really need more anti-corruption/a police force, and we aren't in partially red martial anymore so no problems there.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
We're only ahead on black soil and Iron as far as I'm aware... and we've been highly secretive about iron IC previously, so probably would continue to be.
Really, we stand to gain some by pilgrim tech.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
He just thought it was very important everyone knew he's angry about stuff before he could read things that made him less angry. Anger must be very important to him indeed.
History has shown time and gains that this is not how you advance tech... at all. On the contrary by becoming a center of cultural and technological exchange one will stay on the cutting edge.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...You do realize that Love of Wisdom is explicitly a spiritual trait, right? The mysticism drain seems to be more "our shamans are busy testing things all the time, because we're still primarily recording knowledge via oral teachings, so every few generations the shamans are skeptical of those teachings" than any sort of "religion is less important because we love wisdom separate from it". Like, i think that Necratoid is overestimating the amount of tech spread that would comefrom pilgrimages, but the general idea (that if we push heavily to have people make pilgrimages to our holy site that will soon also hold a great repository of knowledge, while one of our major spiritual beliefs is in the testing of knowledge, when we in general are about sharing what we can with others when they need it) is logical. Mind, becoming a center of learning will help us as well, but the idea that it might spread our knowledge even as we gain new knowledge and encourage more innovation is logical.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
One of the best descriptions I've heard is that the human tech revolution (starting 8k years ago or w/e) was powered by ideas having sex as trade began to be a thing.
New techs happen when creative people get to see new things in juxtaposition with old things. Holing up in the hills actively counters that.
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Silicon Valley is that way because workers can switch jobs basically at will and bring their knowledge from one place to another, or start companies nilly-willy.
The information economy is in part based on open source codebase in which the secret sauce is shared freely.
Don't forget that the Library of Alexandria grew from copying books carried by travelers.
Yes it is a spiritual trait, a stupidly advanced one that most of our neighbors could not hope to digest. Look at its downside Do you think any sane self-serving elite is going to want to absorb a trait with the con: Can question social foundations.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ahh, i misunderstood, i'd thought you were talking about (and calling ludicrous) the general idea of "love of wisdom makes it more likely that we'll spread knowledge to pilgrims", not the idea of other civs picking up the actual trait LoW from us due to pilgrimage-driven cultural push (which is a notion that i apparently skimmed past in necratoid's posts because i missed that bit). That said, Love of Wisdom is part of our religion, thats kind of the point of spiritual traits. Its a less concrete part than, say, the "this god does X, this god did Y, this god is why we have Z" parts, but the notion that we should question things and test them is a major part of our religious beliefs, its not separate from it like your earlier post (seemed to) suggests
Quick Edit:
Also, while i agree that most elites in other civs wouldn't want to pick up the trait, if we really did become so successful in pilgrimage attraction that large segments of their population adopted (a version of) our religious beliefs, i could see them getting a choice to suppress it at cost of stability, or accept it, and that might be a hard choice... Mind, i don't see us being that successful any time soon, and i think that either way the bigger issue is the more mundane knowledge spread (and that that is at least partially and maybe fully countered by us getting more knowledge gain in turn) and the possibility of them picking up the basic observance trait instead.
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That sounds like a fun way for us to get more refugees.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
If they stand to gain from it, because questioning social foundation is great when it's someone else's foundation.
For example, when the industrial age began people were looking for workers instead of slaves. Due to machines requiring a bit more knowledge and education to operate, while farming requires none.
Then some people integrated less developed social fairness concept into anti-slavery movement aiming to convet slaves into workers.
Thus, the new industrialist kicked slavery into garbage can for self interests.
- Location
- Staring into the void
If we're really prestigious, and make sure everyone knows how rich we are, won't that make us an even bigger target for the nomads and others to attack us?
- Location
- Philippines
Hmm the nomads are attacking the "south" we are directly south of them so they will likely fight us first unfortunate but the march should be able to deal with them unless they get some new tech
Everything is directly south of them. they could just as easily attack the metal workers or the Xoh Empire.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's a downside to the 'they are so cool, their gods must be the thing to have' reaction.
Or all of them, depending on nomad horde size.
Er... what? The only places actual slavery or any facsimile thereof lasted until the bare beginnings of industrialization were the American South and Russia. This was hardly a world-wide motivation.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Not industrialisation, but commercialisation.
Hired hands are, cheaper and more productive and less rebellious than slaves or serfs and far easier to replace ( post agricultural revolution, global trade and ease of movement that is)
I know, but s/he said industrialists.
- Location
- Panama City
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
They'd have to go through us or the TS probably. I think the untamed wilderness between us is too difficult to traverse en masse.
@Abby Normal it isn't necessary that other countries take up our traits. Losing something as seemingly minor as the Arch will still allow revolutions in architecture and thus population density, travel via easier bridges, and general engineering knowledge.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Am giving the benefit of the doubt, God knows I personally use the wrong terms, Or words quite often.
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They are nomads. Untamed wilderness is their natural habitat. As long as they have their herds they are fine.