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Paths of Civilization

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[] Stay at home, garden (Main Expand Econ)
The Ymaryn in me compells me. But,

[X] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)

We should always look for more reasonable people, especially if we have a fast getaway :V

Still thinking about what to do with the new immigrants. Leaving them to the Stallions was the original problem, but I am disinclined to go into negative stability for it. Open to debate.

ALSO, TO EVERYONE IMMEDIATELY VOTING FOR TOO FAR

Note that it is only challenging the validity of the two megaprojects. Do you know what that means? Do you not remember what we did to challenge the validity of Weapons of the Gods? It means further study, to learn more about why it works. Not completely removing it

EDIT: :ninja: by AN
 
Glassware said:
Oh, sweet, more stability. That'll put us up to 3, in case anyone was wondering.

EDIT: Actually, I'm pretty sure we have the ingredients for a Golden Age right here. Four Econ would put us into overflow.
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It'll also suppress the idea of questioning stuff
which is bad, for those just joining us
 
Glassware said:
Honestly, I think challenging Sacred Warding might work out the best, because Sacred Warding is actually, y'know, based on Bynwyn's frankly solid reasoning. Experimental testing of Sacred Warding will verify that in fact if you don't keep it up you will get smallpox and die.
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You need smallpox for that to work, and we don't currently have it.
 
[X] Stay at home, garden (Main Expand Econ)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] This is a step too far (Challenge continues one last turn)
BEGIN THE ??? DISCUSSION!
 
[X] Stay at home, garden (Main Expand Econ)

[X] Stallion Tribes

[X] This is a step too far (Challenge continues one last turn)
 
To those voting for Too Far, we'll have no idea what it'll take to complete the challenge if we take it. It will literally be ??? as to what it'll take to do it. We'd be shooting in the dark trying to figure it out and if we don't we fail the challenge entirely.
 
Why are people going for expand econ when we already have 10, I mean what's the point? If we continue the challenge I think the unknown requirement would be finding some use for the tailings since initial observations say they are just poisons but if we actually experiment we can find an actual use for them. If we do scared forests will need to do study forests at least to try and might need to expand forests and black soil production to learn more about what we are doing.
 
Glassware said:
Honestly, I think challenging Sacred Warding might work out the best, because Sacred Warding is actually, y'know, based on Bynwyn's frankly solid reasoning. Experimental testing of Sacred Warding will verify that in fact if you don't keep it up you will get smallpox and die.
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I actually think it is going to be either a superpowered Study Health or Study Forest.
 
Hey AN, how many Expand Econ slots do we have? Or at least, how many did we have in the main turn that we didn't get to choose and therefore see?
 
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Academia Nut said:
While to a large degree this new method wasn't that much use for the People, there were definitely some places where it might be of benefit, especially in some of the lakes and sloughs along the course of rivers in the steppes. If any major reservoir work were ever done it would also be of considerable benefit to have this technique on hand to improve the utilization of the water. Also, the People were always happy to have improved agricultural techniques.
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So this pretty much confirms what was said before. If we do the Great Dam it will have major synergy with this new farming method we now have and really boost food/econ growth.

Just need to hopefully get into a Golden Age soon so we can see if we can't milk even more benefits out of the megaproject.

[X] Stay at home, garden (Main Expand Econ)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] This is a step too far (Challenge continues one last turn)

Don't want to risk quite possibly losing the benefits of our other beliefs.
 
I'm thinking challenge the Sacred Warding. They have a pretty good idea as to how it works and it should be easy to 'prove or disprove' which is what we're looking to establish. We have a LOT of resources to test it with. Even if it's disproved, challenging beliefs should become a trait.
 
Diff Checker

Academia Nut said:
General
Diplomacy 14 (max, overflowing) [+1]
Economy 10
Martial 11 {14} (partial limit)
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Econ 12 -> 10
12 -2 (Festival) -2 (boats) +1 (boats end of turn) - 1 (health) - 1 (tailings) - 1 (metal) + 4 (expand econ) = 10
So chinampas didn't add econ directly yet.
Martial change is from econ decrease.
Academia Nut said:
Stability
Stability 2 (encouraged)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
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Stability 1 +1 (festival) - 1 (study tailings) - 1 (Study metal) + 2 Greater good activation = 2
Great timing for GG to activate :)

Academia Nut said:
Organizational
Centralization 2
Hierarchy 6
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Centralization went from 3 to 2...for some reason???
Academia Nut said:
Cultural
Art 11
Mysticism 2
Prestige 9
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Art 8 -> 11
+1 (Festival) +2 (diplo overflow, including boats diplo)
Mysticism 5 -> 2
-2 (tailings) -2 (metal) +1 study stars
Prestige 8 -> 9
From the trade or from the war mission i guess?
Academia Nut said:
Cavalry
Chariot Archer Elites
Spoked chariots
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We have spoked chariots now! woo =D
 
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[X] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Forest (???)
 
[X] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Forest (???)

Noone is putting forward a plan with a reasonable chance to solve the shot in the dark. This plan allows us to scientifically test one of our beliefs which we know is quite testable.
 
[X] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Forest (???)

Play a bit safer this time, and a main sailing mission as we never try it our-self. Also, resettling nomads in our provinces will mitigate additional cultural drift at the Marches.

Edit: Actually, i want study forest action. We know we have to maintain it due to massively increased wood consumption for charcoal, combining that with possibility of metal slurry seeping into the earth; we will develop land recovery mindset.
 
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Entropy Engineer said:
Yet* that is the word we must use. It is obvious that we will get some hint. Otherwise it would be a little too unfair.
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This is clearly a rope that AN is handing us to hang ourselves on in the pursuit of a bigger shiny. Give us a hint? Unless AN outright states clearly that he *will* give us a hint I'm not going to trust that there *will* be a hint. Making assumptions or trusting that there is going to be a hint is dangerous when we'll have only one chance at making it work.
 
A Salt Gift would be amazing right now- it's nigh universally more efficient than Main Econ and a Salt Gift where it's escorting warriors are toting around metal the Xoh and HK might very well have little to no record of is liable to be absolutely crazy.

It's an incredibly powerful gesture, especially compared to the Main Econ- which reeks of the worst kind of isolationism.
 
It would take generations for the tree blight or pox to become widespread again.

As for erosion and desertification those take even longer.
Meaning that any empirical test would see that if you stopped, and after a few years nothing happened it's just superstition.

I'd rather not risk our ritualistic albeit highly useful practices be dismissed duo primitive empiricism
 
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drake_azathoth said:
I'm thinking challenge the Sacred Warding. They have a pretty good idea as to how it works and it should be easy to 'prove or disprove' which is what we're looking to establish. We have a LOT of resources to test it with. Even if it's disproved, challenging beliefs should become a trait.
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We need smallpox for a test, and we don't have any on hand. We do have blight; Sacred Forest is the more testable hypothesis
 
I don't suppose anyone remembers what exactly the forest blight was supposed to be, and if its something that will be noticeable within a generation if we leave a few patches of forest unmanaged? I know someone identified it way back when, but its a lot harder to find things when its not AN doing them
 
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